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Thread: Grow Light Position: Horizontal or Vertical?

  1. #1
    Plant & Nug of the Month Winner Harry Red's Avatar
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    Question Grow Light Position: Horizontal or Vertical?

    In the short time I've been using these lights, I've noticed that plants directly under the light seem to have a fine upper canopy but the branches get more shade, causing the branches plant to grow slower and more vertically. The plants around the edges of get more light from top to bottom so the side branches are bushier and longer, but the top cola gets more stretched.

    I've saw what was referred to as a "Vertical" grow on another site where the hood was removed and the light suspended in the middle, with the plants surrounding it. The grower claimed to get better results with this setup and better nugs from top to bottom. There would not be 50% reflected light but you'd get direct light from 360 degrees. He would rotate the plants periodically as well.

    It occurs to me that using a hood might be better for sog/scrog or when you're keeping plants low. I noticed that many who scrog must use multiple lights as well in an effort to cover more area.

    I'm thinking that for growing larger plants using the "Vertical" method might be a good thing.

    Anyone tried this or have other thoughts about it?

    Harry

  2. #2
    420 Member Racefan's Avatar
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    Re: Grow Light Position: Horizontal or Vertical ?

    Your wrong with your thinking. The bulbs do not put light out at the end so all your light would be to the sides. The reflector actually helps by redirecting more lumens to where you need it. if you need more side lighting consider adding some cheap floros to the sides or add a light rail.

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    Plant & Nug of the Month Winner Harry Red's Avatar
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    Re: Grow Light Position: Horizontal or Vertical ?

    I think getting light from the sides with full 360 deg coverage is the whole point RaceFan.

    They claim to be able to bud out 15 good size plants with a single 600w bulb.

    Here's an example. Looks impressive..



    Harry

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    420 Member Racefan's Avatar
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    Re: Grow Light Position: Horizontal or Vertical ?

    Well after years of running a bare MH and then going to a hps in a reflector I can state with 100% certainty that the hooded light out performs the unhooded light. But it's your grow and your yield that is affected. Not mine. So go ahead and try it. It's the only "real" way for you to know if it's what you want to do. Sorry I couldn't of been more help.

  5. #5
    Plant & Nug of the Month Winner Harry Red's Avatar
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    Re: Grow Light Position: Horizontal or Vertical ?

    Well, seemed your initial objection was that no light came out of the tip and I was only pointing out that it didn't seem to be an issue because the plants surrounded the light and no plants were directly under the bulb.

    I certainly see your point about being able to focus the light better with the hood. However, this technique does seem worthy of discussion and perhaps further experimentation.

    Thanks RaceFan!

    Harry

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    Re: Grow Light Position: Horizontal or Vertical ?

    In a perfect world,
    you would not only have overhead lighting
    But Also, side lighting
    So the plant is covered from every angle with the same penetration to the main stem.

    Check your bulbs to make sure they can be used in the vertical position

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    Re: Grow Light Position: Horizontal or Vertical ?

    I agree with Racefan and DaMagoMan 100%.A enclosed aircooled reflector is the best way to go.With a aircooled reflector your temps are lower so you are able to have the light closer to your plants.

  8. #8
    Plant & Nug of the Month Winner Harry Red's Avatar
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    Re: Grow Light Position: Horizontal or Vertical ?

    I do understand that Kush302 but for example in my case, I have a 600w HPS in a plain open air hood. Because of location and design of my flower room, heat buildup and space is not an issue. I can get the light right down on the plants (10" or so) with just a 6" fan blowing over the top of the plant. My temps stay at 70-75 degrees at all times. I'm in a cool basement that's probably 24'x40' with full HVAC.

    I can only get one, maybe two, decent size plants right under the light though, so any others end up being on the periphery anyway.

    I can grow 4 to 6 plants (depending on size) with the hood and that's enough for my own personal use. I'm not so sure there's a "one size fits all" solution for everyone and I think there's always room for some outside the box thinking. The people who are doing this claim 1-1.5 oz per plant so that's quite a yield when you multiply x 15.

    If I were to need to grow more plants, I would certainly give the vertical method a try before spending more money on lights and extra energy.

    For now though, I may just add a couple of CFLs as RF suggested, if I need more light at the base.

    Nice discussion.

    Harry

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    Re: Grow Light Position: Horizontal or Vertical ?

    How is then that i'm able to get 2-3 ounce's per plant with a single 400hps aircooled light? Please explain this to me.
    Last edited by Soniq420; 02-15-2009 at 09:24 AM. Reason: tone

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    Plant & Nug of the Month Winner Harry Red's Avatar
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    Re: Grow Light Position: Horizontal or Vertical ?

    Well no. I never said I knew anything about lighting. I'm simply asking questions and wanting a better, perhaps a more scientific explanation, to my query. Clearly, you are the "end all and be all" of all things lighting though.

    2 to 3 oz? Well, I've saw examples of people getting triple that or more from a 400w bulb, with a single plant though. This person claims to be able to get 1.5oz+ per plant x 15 with this vertical setup so I believe you are comparing apples to oranges.

    Anyway. I didn't come here to get into a pizzing contest with you or anyone. Sorry if I don't take one person's opinion as the final word on any given topic. Thanks for yours.



    Harry

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    Plant & Nug of the Month Winner Harry Red's Avatar
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    Re: Grow Light Position: Horizontal or Vertical ?

    I'm not sure what I'll be able to grow indoors at this point.

    If you have anything else of value to add to the thread, please do so.

    Thanks!

    Harry

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    420 Member MayorGreenBud's Avatar
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    Re: Grow Light Position: Horizontal or Vertical ?

    I ask you, anytime you have seen an HPS, or MH light, in a garden or not, (like for general lighting purposes) do you see the bulb like the example you give, or do you see it in a reflector style hood.

    why would you suppose they would use a reflector??

    Light doesn't bend, so thinking of that, tell me where most of the light is being dispersed in your suggested light setup. its wasting energy.
    Last edited by Soniq420; 02-15-2009 at 09:25 AM. Reason: tone

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    Cannabis Connoisseur - Nug of the Month Winner - November 2012 Be Irie's Avatar
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    Re: Grow Light Position: Horizontal or Vertical ?

    Great post Harry, looks like you got a few reactions, always a good sign.. You actually got me thinking, once I get my 600 I think I will try this with the 400 MH. Hang it in the middle and the 600 overhead. I have been using a bunch of CFLs for all the side and low lighting so should be able to see if there is any sorta difference.. Cool beans... think outside the box...

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    Cannabis Connoisseur Boss's Avatar
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    Re: Grow Light Position: Horizontal or Vertical ?

    May growers use verticals with no reflectors, or a canopy hex reflector. They usually do this with multiple lights throughout the room, or if they are growing on the walls in tilted pots.

    Vertical lighting has it's place, just like cfl's, Leds, hps horizontals, cool tubes and so on. If anyone claims they have the best setup, it may be the best for their situation, but never the best for every situation.

    By the way Mayor, The most efficient use of a HID light is in the vertical position, base DOWN, just above and below the plant heights in multiple locations throughout the room, with an almost flat circular hood hanging 6" from the top of the bulb. This way the light comes directly from all sides of the bulb at 100%, not half at 100% and the rest at whatever the reflective hood provides. It's the reason many growers use this method. It also has a tendency to remove any shadow spots that can come from uneven or warped horizontal reflectors. Direct light is always better than reflected light.

    You may wanna look at some of Racefans photos of the hydro vertical grow systems. They all use vertical base down lighting.

  15. #15
    Plant & Nug of the Month Winner Harry Red's Avatar
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    Re: Grow Light Position: Horizontal or Vertical ?

    Quote Originally Posted by MayorGreenBud View Post
    why would you suppose they would use a reflector??
    Because they were trying to focus light in a specific direction. However, that may not necessarily be your goal.

    Quote Originally Posted by MayorGreenBud View Post
    Light doesn't bend
    Actually, light can be bent. Not in your grow room, but it can be bent. It can also be refracted. This is the kind of pitfall one falls into when they make blanket statements like this, which might be considered by some to be nonsense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Be IRIE View Post
    Great post Harry, looks like you got a few reactions, always a good sign.. You actually got me thinking, once I get my 600 I think I will try this with the 400 MH. Hang it in the middle and the 600 overhead. I have been using a bunch of CFLs for all the side and low lighting so should be able to see if there is any sorta difference.. Cool beans... think outside the box...
    Yeppers. I've always been told that there's more that one way to skin a cat. Combining horizontal and vertical bulbs sounds like a pretty good idea and worth testing out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boss View Post
    Many growers use verticals with no reflectors, or a canopy hex reflector. They usually do this with multiple lights throughout the room, or if they are growing on the walls in tilted pots.

    Vertical lighting has it's place, just like cfl's, Leds, hps horizontals, cool tubes and so on.

    Direct light is always better than reflected light.
    Thanks Boss man. I suspected as much from my reading and I'm glad to get some confirmation on that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boss View Post
    If anyone claims they have the best setup, it may be the best for their situation, but never the best for every situation.
    Very well said!!

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