Why do people always complain about PAR when it comes to LED lights?

[dunkindabs]

Im considering purchasing some led's in the next year. With so many choices out there I have been doing research on the low end and high end options.

One consistent knock I have been hearing from people who are not in favor of using led's even if they are more efficient is the lack of PAR they are able to generate. The lack of heat intensity seems to be a major draw for these people.

Is this really true or are they exaggerating because they have become attached to their ways? Any advice or help would be great!

 

[fanleaf]

Quite the opposite. Some LED's will generate rediculous high par numbers. Its a consistently High average par across the lights recommended coverage area that you want to look at. Not sure where you heard or seen that LEDs cannot generate very high par levels but I wouldnt keep reading from that source of information.

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[masonman]

And regarding heat...

A 250 watt HPS, 250 watt LED, and 250 watt CFL all produce the same amount of heat. Basic thermodynamics.

What makes them different is how the heat is managed. With HPS, the majority of the heat is generated from one tiny bulb. CFL's can be spread out all over the place allowing you to place the individual bulbs closer to the plant. LED is kind of the same. More spread out.

Consider this... 1000 watt HPS and 1000 true watt LED. The HPS can be hood vented where a lot of the heat never "blends" with the air around it. Can you hood vent with the LED? I only know of one that can be vented this way. In this scenario all the heat from the LED has to blend with the air first, then be extracted with the exhaust fan.

Sorry for the rant. I always advise people who may be in the market for a new light, to think "heat management" as opposed to one light runs cooler than another.

I personally use LED. I am able to use less wattage and get the same results. The less wattage is what makes the LED appear to run cooler, and the heat is spread out over a larger surface area minimizing light burn if a top gets too close.

The results of modern LEDs speak for themselves. Besides, the environment is the single most important aspect of a successful grow. I don't care what the par value is if you don't have complete control over temps/RH.

Happy growing! Check out MarsHydro for some pretty cool and affordable LEDs. I use two of them myself. MarsHydro is also a 420Sponsor.

 

[dunkindabs]

A few different growers I talked to. They kept telling me the par levels are not high enough to justify buying them yet. They just could of been bias too.

 

[dunkindabs]

Dope! No need to be sorry, its hard to find people who really know what they are talking about these days. So valuable information is always appreciated.

It sounds like its more about how the heat is dispersed vs the amount of energy. I always thought the only thing that mattered was the amount of heat vs heat distribution.

 

[Icemud]

A few different growers I talked to. They kept telling me the par levels are not high enough to justify buying them yet. They just could of been bias too.

Were these "growers" employees at a hydroponics shop? Just curious because it sounds quite a bit like what I have heard from hydroponics shops in the past... however, the little "secret" that they don't say is that they make tons of money off selling HID bulbs and setups, much higher profit margins, which is usually why most of the hydro shops near me don't even sell LED... its not performance, its about profit for the stores I have found out. Sell a bulb that needs to be replaced every year, you have a customer every year. Sell a LED that will run for 10 years straight, then there goes your customer...

I'm not sure what "growers" you are talking to, but LED puts out plenty of PAR, and in most cases much more than other lighting types.

The one way to be certain, is get PPFD readings over a 4x4 grid, at 3-4 different lights for each light you are considering. The measurements will show the story.

The only major advantage that HID has over LED at the moment is that they are cheaper by a lot of money upfront, and they spread the light more evenly over a 4x4 area, where LED is much higher of a upfront cost, but doesn't require yearly bulb replacements, and the LED is more like a focused spotlight where even at the same wattage as HID, it will not cover as large of an area in most cases, but is also much more intense in most cases (watt for watt).

The only way you will know the truth, is to get the PPFD measurements, then you can decide yourself without guessing or being mislead.

 

[masonman]

Dope! No need to be sorry, its hard to find people who really know what they are talking about these days. So valuable information is always appreciated.

It sounds like its more about how the heat is dispersed vs the amount of energy. I always thought the only thing that mattered was the amount of heat vs heat distribution.

As DocBud keeps saying.... Larger volumes of air are easier to to control environmental conditions. In a large 20 foot by 20 foot room, CFLs wouldn't make sense. They do great in a small cabinet though where HPS would cause a sad.

As far as which is better, I'll stay out of that debate. Each has there positives and negatives. You have to carefully consider your needs. Do your research. People with negative opinions about a lights performance are as valid as positive reviews of the same unit. There is no "one light to rule them all".

Some growers rely on the heat from their light to raise temps in their grow area. Some desperately try to remove it. I personally use the heat to my advantage.

Being able to control your environment is #1.... Period
Second is choosing a light. A plant will not be able to take full advantage of the light without the environment being dialed in.
It wont take advantage of nutrients without the environment.
It wont take advantage of CO2.
The strain you choose to grow will rely on the environment.

/environment
//slashies

Have a great day peoples...

 

[dunkindabs]

No they were actually some dispensary owners.

Sounds like I just need to keep doing some research and figure out whats going to work best for my situation. Im considering a 40 light setup so it might be more cost effective to run led for the long run.

 

[Icemud]

No they were actually some dispensary owners.

Sounds like I just need to keep doing some research and figure out whats going to work best for my situation. Im considering a 40 light setup so it might be more cost effective to run led for the long run.

Make sure if you are setting up 40 lights, what your power restrictions and availability are for the facility. You will need this to calculate the actual power availability vs your needs.

Also check with any regulatory boards if you are operating under legal conditions to make sure what approved electrical devices are ok for use.. (UL listed...etc) Many LED grow lights are not UL approved, actually most are not.

Consider the type of grow you are looking to do, how tall the plants will be, how much space the plants will have because there is a difference in penetration and light footprint with each light. Then cross check the 4x4 PAR charts for PPFD and this will tell you exactly the best position for hanging the lights for your grow style.

If you do go LED, you might want to look for Solid state solutions instead of LED's with active cooling fans, less moving parts that can fail with Solid state designs.

With LED also remember that they don't have to be used like HID (4' overhead) and can be used vertically, horizontally, intra canopy..etc... with LED there are tons of options so look at it open minded and not just traditionally and you will use LED to its best potential

Also, power supplies are the biggest fail points, so make sure whatever solution you use has quality power supplies/drivers.



Hope these suggestions help

 

[masonman]

No they were actually some dispensary owners.

Sounds like I just need to keep doing some research and figure out whats going to work best for my situation. Im considering a 40 light setup so it might be more cost effective to run led for the long run.

40 lights? I'm assuming CFLs. Yeah I can't imagine where using 40 CFLs would be a better option than LED/HPS. The most efficient CFL is the 23watt. Multiply that by 40 and your looking at over 900 watts. They would be wasteful on so many levels... lol

I'd be interested in hearing about your grow room. Especially if your looking at buying 40 HIDs

 

[LEDBud]

I strongly suspect its not cfl bulbs , many people get licensees to provide herb for dispensaries or others with a doctors note , its the new gold rush.