Thoughts on CA Prop. 5?

[darkrail]

I just read through all the info on California Prop 5.

I guess I'm not smart enough about the current law to understand exactly how this will change things.

For instance, it says it would make possession of less than an ounce of weed an "infraction" (similar to a traffic ticket) with a $100 fine. Isn't that the same as current law?

It does a whole bunch of other things too. Seems to divert money from prisons and spend it on rehab programs... presumably for hard drugs.

Most things sound like steps in the right direction. Also in its favor, it is opposed by the Police Chiefs Association and the District Attorneys Association (and when are they ever right?).

Looks like we should all vote yes on this one... but am I missing something?

If there are lawyers or other smart people out there who understand this better than I do, please chime in!

[Soniq420]

The present law for less than a Z is a misdemeanor, which is a ciminal charge, which could result in a criminal conviction (even though there is no jail time risk upon conviction).

This is also supposedly not an arrestable offense but there is a caveat that this is up to the officer.

When Prop 5 passes, the infraction will become a civil violation, (no arrest possible, no criminal charge. Essentially, it'll be like a speeding ticket.

I think this puts all those associated secondary punishments (i.e. loss of school loans, etc.) out of play; but I'm not sure.

[darkrail]

Cool - thank you!

Do you know anything about the rest of it though? Sounds like there's a bunch of new government spending involved, which is something I'm always against. But since the perfect libertarian world isn't coming anytime soon, I guess I would prefer that the government spent the money it robbed from me on treatment rather than incarceration.

[420]

agreed.

[Soniq420]

I did a bit of research and punchline seems to be; cost neutral on an ongoing basis except for a one time claimed 2.5 billion in savings.

Personally, I think they are overstating the expected savings and under estimating the costs, but that's only because they do it everytime and think we aren't noticing ;-)

The (theoretcally) objective claim is 1 billion/year savings due to lowered cost (less people in jail for non-violent offenders)

There is also a 1 billion/year cost due to increased cost of diversion for treatement.

The one time savings is basically in avoidance of new construction and spending.

There is a great analysis at this link

Proposition 5: Nonviolent Drug Offenses, Sentencing, Parole and Rehabilitation - California State Government

Personally I'm Libertarian and generally don't like any new government spending, but on balance this seems to me that we'll have more freedom for the same cost if this passes.

[420]

thanks soniq!

[darkrail]

Done and done.

That was the only lingering question I had left on my mail-in ballot. It is now filled out and going in the mail tonight.

Thanks very much, soniq!

PS: While this isn't really a 420 issue, I ask every Californian to get out there and vote NO on 8. If 8 passes, it will add a constitutional amendment saying gay marriage is illegal. Let's not start embracing discrimination in our state constitution. No on 8.

[GMASON]

I wasnt even aware this would be on the ballot. I just moved to Cali from Tennessee and my girlfriend and I have joked about there being so many propositions on the ballots.I see commercials for Props 2,4,8 and others all the time. Thanks for the information. Now im even more excited to vote.

[Soniq420]

I Know the Drug Czar is campaigning against the measure, as are the prison guards union and 32 District Attornies. Essentially, the criminal justice profiteers plus Martin Sheen. I'm sure there are others, but these are the main one's I've found.

On the other hand the following groups are supporting Prop 5;

Medical/Treatment Organizations
California Nurses Association
California Society of Addiction Medicine
California Academy of Family Physicians
California Association of Addiction Recovery Resources
California Association of Alcoholism and Drug Abuse Counselors
County Alcohol and Drug Program Administrators’ Association of California
Coalition of Alcohol and Drug Associations
California Association for Alcohol and Drug Educators
California Association of Alcohol and Drug Program Executives
American Association for Marriage and Family Therapy - California Division
Aegis Medical Systems, Inc
AIDS Emergency Fund
AIDS/HIV Health Alternatives
Alpha Project for the Homeless
BAART
Behavioral Health Services
Bienestar Human Services
Bi-Valley Medical Clinic
California Hepatitis C Task Force
California Opioid Maintenance Providers (COMP)
Common Ground - The Westside HIV Community Center
CRI-HELP, INC
Dixon Recovery Institute, Inc.
F.O.U.N.D
Fresno County Drug and Alcohol Advisory Board
Genesis House, Inc.
H.A.A.R.T., Inc
Hollywood & Vine Recovery Center
Homeless Health Care Los Angeles
House of UHURU
Janus of Santa Cruz
L.A. CADA - Los Angeles Centers for Alcohol and Drug Abuse
Long Beach South Bay Substance Abuse Coalition
Lunns Hope Corporation
Marin Treatment Center, Inc
National Association on Alcohol, Drugs and Disability
National Council of Alcoholism & Drug Dependence - Long Beach
National Council of Alcoholism & Drug Dependence - South Bay
Nationwide Medical Group, Inc.
Pathway Society, Inc
People in Progress
Phoenix House
Practical Recovery Services - La Jolla
Project Inform
Responsible Recovery
San Francisco HIV/AIDS Provider Network
Serene Center, Inc.
Sober Living Network
Solano Prevention and Recovery Alliance
Stepping Stone of San Diego
Tarzana Treatment Centers Inc
The Drug Abuse Alternatives Center
The Effort
The Gardner House
Western Pacific Med/Corp



Statewide/National Organizations
League of Women Voters of California
California Federation of Teachers
Consumer Federation of California
California Democratic Party
California Young Democrats
Green Party of California
California State Conference of the NAACP
California NAACP Youth & College Division
National African-American Drug Policy Coalition, Inc.
National Black Police Association
National Council of La Raza
Latino Voters League
Latino Issues Forum
Color of Change.Org
National Latino Congreso
Chinese for Affirmative Action
The Sentencing Project
National Association of Social Workers, California Chapter
Women’s Council California Chapter National Association of Social Workers
The November Coalition
Courage Campaign
AWARE (Always Working toward Advancing Recovery Environments)
National Working Positive Coalition



Youth Organizations/Advocates
Association of Community Human Services Agencies
Education Not Incarceration
W. Haywood Burns Institute
Wolfe Center/ Juvenile Justice Network
Community Health Awareness Council
Community Justice Network for Youth
CADRE - Community Asset Development Redefining Education
Inner City Struggle
Larkin Street Youth Services
Students for Sensible Drug Policy
Huckleberry Youth Programs
Youth Justice Coalition/Free LA
Youth and Family Enrichment Services
Youth and Family Services



Mental Health Organizations
California Coalition for Ethical Mental Health Care
California Council of Community Mental Health Agencies
Mental Health Association in California



Faith Organizations
California Church IMPACT
First African Presbyterian Church - UN Ministry
Interfaith Drug Policy Initiative
Progressive Christians Uniting
Progressive Jewish Alliance
CAIR - CA
Second Chance Evangelist Ministries
Southern California Ecumenical Council
Friends Committee on Legislation



Labor
California Labor Federation
American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees California (AFSCME California)
SEIU California State Council
AFSCME Local 2620 (Health and Social Services Professional Employees)



Local/Community Organizations
A New PATH (Parents for Addiction Treatment & Healing)
A New Way of Life Re-entry Project
Alice B. Tolkas Democratic Club
Asian Americans for Community Involvement (AACI)
California Drug Counseling, Inc.
Central City Democrats
Democratic Women’s Forum of San Francisco
Downtown Women’s Center
Foothill Community Democrats
Friends Outside of Santa Cruz County
Harvey Milk LGBT Democratic Club
Idriss Stelley Action and Resource Center
Los Angeles County Democratic Party
Placer County Democratic Party
Potrero Hill Democratic Club
POWER (People Organized to Win Employment Rights)
Progressive Democrats of Los Angeles
Returning Home Foundation
San Diego County Democratic Party
San Francisco League of Young Voters
San Francisco Young Democrats
San Francisco Cop Watch
Santa Cruz Community Action Board
Santa Cruz Community Counseling Center
St. Anthony Foundation
Tenants Associations Coalition Political Action Committee (TACPAC)
Time for Change Foundation
United Job Creation Coalition
Watts Labor Community Action Committee
Wellstone Democratic Renewal Club



Legal/Policy Organizations
American Civil Liberties Union of Northern California
American Civil Liberties Union of Southern California
Advancement Project
Center for Health Justice
Center on Juvenile and Criminal Justice
California Public Defenders Association
Ella Baker Center for Human Rights
Justice Policy Institute
Equal Justice Society
Black and Brown Equitable Drug Policy Coalition
International CURE
Los Angeles Overdose Prevention Task Force
Project Inform
Reason Foundation
San Francisco Bay Area Drug Policy Reform
Southern California HIV Advocacy Coalition
Stop Prisoner Rape



Select Individual Endorsers
George Shultz, chairman of Governor Schwarzenegger’s Council of Economic Advisers &
former chairman of President Reagan’s Economic Policy Advisory Board & US Secretary of State
John DiIulio, former director, White House Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives
Congresswoman Barbara Lee
Congresswoman Maxine Waters
Congressman Henry Waxman
Assembly Member Jim Beall
Assembly Member Mark Leno
Assembly Member Sally Lieber
Assembly Member Curren Price, Jr.
Senator John Vasconcellos, ret.
Senator Richard Polanco, ret.
Jeanne Woodford, former warden, San Quentin;
retired director, California Department of Corrections
George M. Galaza, retired warden, California Department of Corrections
Superior Court Judge James Gray, Orange County
Supervisor Neal Coonerty, Santa Cruz County
Supervisor Bevan Dufty, County of San Francisco
Mayor Roosevelt F. Dorn, City of Inglewood
Mayor Tom Bates, City of Berkeley
Norm Stamper, retired Seattle police chief &
former executive of San Diego Police Department
John Lum, former Probation Chief, San Luis Obispo County
Margaret Mudd, retired Asst. Probation Chief, Monterey County
James M. Illig, President, San Francisco Health Commission
Nancy J. Nadel, Oakland City Councilmember




Full List of Prop. 5 Endorsers | Yes on Proposition 5: The Nonviolent Offender Rehabilitation Act