DrSmokebro
New Member
Hi 420,
First off I want to say how great this forum is - some really friendly and helpful peeps here. I am looking forward to becoming a contributing member of the community
Soooooooo...
I have been doing a significant amount of lurking here over the past month or so, currently researching for a 1st time grow starting mid-March (I would much rather start now but am working on the other side of the planet!). Here is the rough plan...
SPACE: Stealth closet grow WxDxH = 4x2x7ft
GROW MEDIUM: Soil
LIGHT: LED
The plan is to grow out 2 - 3 plants (i'm not sure on strain yet but will be predominately indica), then use clones of my favourite to start a flat Scrog... With the possibility of putting a shelf halfway up the closet to potentially give me double the grow area. Ultimately a seperate mother/clone area, with two flowering scrog shelves in one closet...
Something like that! At the moment I am not really asking for advice on that side of things (the grow process), but if you want to give any I will graciously suck all the knowledge out of the screen and into my head! BAM! more Knowledge in the head = good.
I will most definitely be needing alot of general advice at some point soon, I am planning on starting a grow journal here so people can benefit from the process as I have from so many of your journals.
But at the moment I think its best to keep the scope of this discussion focused on topic...
....(Drum roll please)
... Lighting. Specifically LED. I have chosen to work with LED's for a few reasons:
1) Reduction of heat issue
2) Saving electrical power
3) Extended product life
4) I like to try new things!
Pretty standard reasons I know...
As I am sure you know, it is an LED minefield out there. So many companies all claiming to be the best, etc... I worked in sales (don't hate me) for a while so am pretty good at wading through the fields of bullshit and coming to my own conclusions, which are as follows... (and are by no means conclusive)
I have narrowed it down to a selection of four companies which are:
1) BUDMASTER
2) Californian Light Works
3) Area 51
4) Apache Tech
I know there are many, many other options around. I have got to this point by looking for companies that actually design (and ideally) build the units in house/country. Obviously in this day and age outsourcing to our Asian friends is in most cases a neccesity. It's impossible to compete in almost every physical product market without doing it...
So as far as I am aware, CLW and Apache are actually the only companies that build 'in-house', but I like the other two companies.. Here are my reasons for all four...
1) Budmaster
Are a UK based firm, I will be living in the UK for this project. I like their website attitude, seems honest, good grow journals, willing to interact in a 3rd party forum. The units seem well made, most importantly I really love the modular design. And as far as I am aware it is unique, which to me suggests they designed it themselves.
2) CLW
Proven track record, which speaks volumes in my opinion. Lots of grow journals out there... They build their own units (wow!). They clearly have a good marketing dept, which does not neccesarily mean they have a good product... but the buyer test programs, and number of grow journals out there does suggest they have a product that stands above most others...
3) Area 51
The most honest company I have found so far. They give the product code of the Diodes they use! Crazy business decision but I really like the upfront/no bullshit approach on their website, which, lets face it - is the modern shopfront of business and does massively impact on peoples buying decisions... IS USING PREDOMINATELY 'WHITE' LED's on their latest model. (more on this is a small moment)
4) Apache Tech
Seem to be well respected, NASA connections apparently (take that with a large pinch of salt...) I think they build in house, the most efficient watt/PAR ratio that exists (to my limited knowledge). VERY expensive on a Watt basis. Also uses PREDOMINATELY 'WHITE' LED's on their most talked about ganja grow model. (AT120WR)
Good warrenties all in all...suprisingly Apache has the worst at 1yr and is the most exensive unit, which definitely means it loses some points.
...Take a deep breath..... (preferably a smoke filled one )
Now... after all that.. I come to the part of the rant where I need advice from people who know alot more about this than me!!!
WHY THE MOVE TO PREDOMINANTLY 'WHITE' LED's on AREA51 & APACHE? I was under the impression that alot of this 'wide spectrum' white light is wasted on our plant.. Has this been proved false? Why is pretty much every other company using a combo of blue and red? Have they (most of the industry) not caught up with the latest developments in the technology? I am intrigued and would love to hear the communities opinions...
Until I have more info on this whole white LED thing, I can't make a proper informed decision on this. So at the moment it is between BUDMASTER & CLW.
Now, as I am working with a 2ftx4ft area, I have deduced that I need a couple of units, each covering a square2x2 area. I reckon either of these two units will do the job nicely...
CLW 200w Full Sprectrum Solarflare
BUDMASTER 450XG
Because I want to potentially cut the closet in half horizontally in the future, I need a light that can be operated close to the canopy. The general advice of CLW is 18-24in depending on plant growth stage, strain etc (I understand that these are rough guidlines!)...
Whereas the BUDMASTER guidlines are very high... 1.5 (5ft)-2m (6.5ft) for veg and 45-60cm for bloom. I am assuming this is because they have packed in such as massive amount of diodes in each cluster... But even so this is really high industry wide.. The general advice for LEDS seems to be 12-24in ish.. That is what the few PAR reading comparisons I have seen measure at...
Budmaster - Powerful units but perhaps not the best for close canopy growing with restricted height?
***************
Sorry if this seems to be a bit if a rant... its been good to get the whole sheebang out of my head and on to 'paper'... Its allowed me to address the pro's/cons of the lights im looking at and solidify all these LED based thoughts whirling around my head! Wooooooo! its a crazy disco in there...
I really look forward to interacting with you guys on this topic.. just to make it nice and clear for everyone (including me), I guess I am asking two questions...
1) Whats the crack with these new fangled 'white' LEDS?
2) How is the budmaster seemingly so much more powerful at distance than everything else?
I know there are some specific threads dedicated to LED's.. I felt that there was so much I wanted to say that it would be best to start my own..
Thanks alot in advance for anyone who reads/responds this. I look forward to hearing your opinions!
DrSmokebro
First off I want to say how great this forum is - some really friendly and helpful peeps here. I am looking forward to becoming a contributing member of the community
Soooooooo...
I have been doing a significant amount of lurking here over the past month or so, currently researching for a 1st time grow starting mid-March (I would much rather start now but am working on the other side of the planet!). Here is the rough plan...
SPACE: Stealth closet grow WxDxH = 4x2x7ft
GROW MEDIUM: Soil
LIGHT: LED
The plan is to grow out 2 - 3 plants (i'm not sure on strain yet but will be predominately indica), then use clones of my favourite to start a flat Scrog... With the possibility of putting a shelf halfway up the closet to potentially give me double the grow area. Ultimately a seperate mother/clone area, with two flowering scrog shelves in one closet...
Something like that! At the moment I am not really asking for advice on that side of things (the grow process), but if you want to give any I will graciously suck all the knowledge out of the screen and into my head! BAM! more Knowledge in the head = good.
I will most definitely be needing alot of general advice at some point soon, I am planning on starting a grow journal here so people can benefit from the process as I have from so many of your journals.
But at the moment I think its best to keep the scope of this discussion focused on topic...
....(Drum roll please)
... Lighting. Specifically LED. I have chosen to work with LED's for a few reasons:
1) Reduction of heat issue
2) Saving electrical power
3) Extended product life
4) I like to try new things!
Pretty standard reasons I know...
As I am sure you know, it is an LED minefield out there. So many companies all claiming to be the best, etc... I worked in sales (don't hate me) for a while so am pretty good at wading through the fields of bullshit and coming to my own conclusions, which are as follows... (and are by no means conclusive)
I have narrowed it down to a selection of four companies which are:
1) BUDMASTER
2) Californian Light Works
3) Area 51
4) Apache Tech
I know there are many, many other options around. I have got to this point by looking for companies that actually design (and ideally) build the units in house/country. Obviously in this day and age outsourcing to our Asian friends is in most cases a neccesity. It's impossible to compete in almost every physical product market without doing it...
So as far as I am aware, CLW and Apache are actually the only companies that build 'in-house', but I like the other two companies.. Here are my reasons for all four...
1) Budmaster
Are a UK based firm, I will be living in the UK for this project. I like their website attitude, seems honest, good grow journals, willing to interact in a 3rd party forum. The units seem well made, most importantly I really love the modular design. And as far as I am aware it is unique, which to me suggests they designed it themselves.
2) CLW
Proven track record, which speaks volumes in my opinion. Lots of grow journals out there... They build their own units (wow!). They clearly have a good marketing dept, which does not neccesarily mean they have a good product... but the buyer test programs, and number of grow journals out there does suggest they have a product that stands above most others...
3) Area 51
The most honest company I have found so far. They give the product code of the Diodes they use! Crazy business decision but I really like the upfront/no bullshit approach on their website, which, lets face it - is the modern shopfront of business and does massively impact on peoples buying decisions... IS USING PREDOMINATELY 'WHITE' LED's on their latest model. (more on this is a small moment)
4) Apache Tech
Seem to be well respected, NASA connections apparently (take that with a large pinch of salt...) I think they build in house, the most efficient watt/PAR ratio that exists (to my limited knowledge). VERY expensive on a Watt basis. Also uses PREDOMINATELY 'WHITE' LED's on their most talked about ganja grow model. (AT120WR)
Good warrenties all in all...suprisingly Apache has the worst at 1yr and is the most exensive unit, which definitely means it loses some points.
...Take a deep breath..... (preferably a smoke filled one )
Now... after all that.. I come to the part of the rant where I need advice from people who know alot more about this than me!!!
WHY THE MOVE TO PREDOMINANTLY 'WHITE' LED's on AREA51 & APACHE? I was under the impression that alot of this 'wide spectrum' white light is wasted on our plant.. Has this been proved false? Why is pretty much every other company using a combo of blue and red? Have they (most of the industry) not caught up with the latest developments in the technology? I am intrigued and would love to hear the communities opinions...
Until I have more info on this whole white LED thing, I can't make a proper informed decision on this. So at the moment it is between BUDMASTER & CLW.
Now, as I am working with a 2ftx4ft area, I have deduced that I need a couple of units, each covering a square2x2 area. I reckon either of these two units will do the job nicely...
CLW 200w Full Sprectrum Solarflare
BUDMASTER 450XG
Because I want to potentially cut the closet in half horizontally in the future, I need a light that can be operated close to the canopy. The general advice of CLW is 18-24in depending on plant growth stage, strain etc (I understand that these are rough guidlines!)...
Whereas the BUDMASTER guidlines are very high... 1.5 (5ft)-2m (6.5ft) for veg and 45-60cm for bloom. I am assuming this is because they have packed in such as massive amount of diodes in each cluster... But even so this is really high industry wide.. The general advice for LEDS seems to be 12-24in ish.. That is what the few PAR reading comparisons I have seen measure at...
Budmaster - Powerful units but perhaps not the best for close canopy growing with restricted height?
***************
Sorry if this seems to be a bit if a rant... its been good to get the whole sheebang out of my head and on to 'paper'... Its allowed me to address the pro's/cons of the lights im looking at and solidify all these LED based thoughts whirling around my head! Wooooooo! its a crazy disco in there...
I really look forward to interacting with you guys on this topic.. just to make it nice and clear for everyone (including me), I guess I am asking two questions...
1) Whats the crack with these new fangled 'white' LEDS?
2) How is the budmaster seemingly so much more powerful at distance than everything else?
I know there are some specific threads dedicated to LED's.. I felt that there was so much I wanted to say that it would be best to start my own..
Thanks alot in advance for anyone who reads/responds this. I look forward to hearing your opinions!
DrSmokebro