cfl or led in 2.5ft x 1.5ft x5ft

G

Gazzatron

New Member
Hi 420 members!!!
I was hoping some of you with a bit of knowledge on small grows could help me out.
I have literally done hundreds of hours of research and read so many grow journals so I am hoping the 2 ideas I have in my head arent too bad.
My mrs still hasnt said yes to me doing anything yet so it could be all hypothetical anyway but here are my 2 ideas.

1) 345w CFL. Air cooled hood 15x23w

So i was thinking of building a box 600mm x 430mm x 200mm but making the bottom out of acrylic. I would then mount all 15 cfls on single bayonet fittings evenly spaced to the roof of the box/hood. Id cut 2 holes out of each end to mount an 80mm computer fan to cool the lights and ducting on the other side to vent out of my cabinet.
I figured that 15 cfls would create a fair bit of heat and since its the middle of summer and is hot as F@#k here I would run into temp problems. Its currently 26c or 78.8f at 630pm so inside the cab with 15 cfls would be pretty dam hot.
The cost of the hood would be around $130 for everything.
So thats 345ish actual watts of cfls covering a scrog within 3 inchs of the bulbs. (let me know if you need any more info)


2) Cheap led panel

Now this is where all you awesome 420 members come in!!
Ive been doing a lot of research on the cheap led panels on ebay and it seems the Marshydro and topledseller leds are the best of cheapies.
What I would like to ask everyone here is what panel would be best suited to my grow space. The Mars300w with the switches for vege and bloom (old model) are about $200 free shipping. The ones without the switch are about $120 and the similar ones from topledseller are $125.
Does anyone know what the differences are between the 3 led's and if they will be suitable for my space?

I would really like to hear all your opinions on Cfls (the setup above) or the led's I have mentioned and which would be better for me or even if you guys have a better idea I would love to hear it!!

Thanks in advance!!!
 
My thought on the matter is use the LED panels as they have GREAT penetration compared to the cfl lights and LAST longer before burning out at 50.000 hrs. which is the equivalent of 5 years 7 months @ 24hrs a day. You could see near 10 years of service from a panel , if it has the needed heat sinks inside .. the very cheap ones don't ( although marshydro do )
Mars give a 3 year guarantee .. I have a Mars panels I am not a company rep..
 
nobodyuknow said:
Heres the Mars Hydro discussion thread: Mars-Hydro LED Grow Light Discussion

I bet you would get some great responses there about Mars Hydro lights :lot-o-toke:
Click to expand...

follow NOBODY's advise...^^^ :)

A lot has to do with how you plan on growing...
Are you gonna train with scrog or lst?? or just let it grow??
I PERSONALLY would not go with the 300 cfl.
and Yes i have grown great with cfls,.
If cfl is the way for you, pick up 5 or 6 - 33 watt (150 watt equivalent ) from lowes /home depot.
Do some searches on PVC pipe cfl frames...
The last one i made cost a whole $20 !! (not including lights...) If a light burns out its a easy replace, not leaving your WHOLE grow in the dark.
Now i have a MH 48*3 reflector led in a 2x2 scrogged area (and love it,) if your planing on just growing id say go with the MH MarsII- 400
Puts out a little more heat, (but no where near as much as a hps)but the penetration is way better than cfls, and if you do your due diligence you will see it grows and grows and grows....
REMEMBER... CFLS, and LEDS STILL need ventilation!!!
pax
 
I started with CFLs. I was running almost 600w(actual power) from them. I bought 2 Mars II 400 (both full spectrum) and my plants look better, the buds are harder, I am using about 1/2 the electricity and it is cooler then my cfls were. I can't be happier with my Mars. If you go to the Mars-Hydro website, the give discounts for multiple lights and I you search I believe there is a discount for 420 members (I believe it is COfinest but I won't swear to it.)
 
MarsII 400
costs $189 (without discount)
200 watts actual draw
has 5 watt led -Better penetration

The OLD style
200*3
300 Actual watts
Uses 3 watt led
LESS penetration
costs $209

5 watts has more penetration than 3 watts
Again, depends on your growing style
 
The mars old style 100x3w puts out 180 watts and cost $100
The Mars 2 400 has100w less output which is 50% less output then the closely priced mars 200x3w panel.

It is what it is , buy what you want I just want to put some facts out there that are real , not just the marketing hype without any real numbers to back it up , in this case the numbers denote a 50% reduction in output per dollar for the mars 2 400.


The mars 2 400 will grow great weed , which is not to say the old style will not because we know it does.
 
I see what yer hammering at
While the old style has 1/3 more power it still has 3 watt LEDs
That are known to have less penetration than 5 watt LEDs
If training is going to be in ones grow style then old style for sure..
Heck, I growing with a MH 48*3 reflector led with great results
But I am also a scrogging I.e. Training.
If training was not my gig then it would have been the
Led with 5 watt diodes for better penatration to the lower branches
Peace
 
Show me the measurements as I suspect the 300w 200 x3w diodes with its 50% increased output not 1/3 as you posted has better penetration then the similarly priced 200w 5w diodes mars 2 panel.
In the mean while I have the mars old style true 180w to compare to the mars 2 true 200w panel , I have a light meter if someone has the mars 2 and a cheap lux meter lets do a test Well my lux meter is a professional model with pc input and selectable light sources.

Remember I can buy TWO 180w old style to one of the mars 2 , giving me twice the area and 360w to a mars 2 200w which equates to 160 more watts then the mars 400 , that's 80% more output for about the same $

I assure you I have thought this out and am not disagreeing with you for entertainment.

A Lux meter will denote penetration differences not par values nor a true lux number but it will show penetration differences between led lights.

A new thread might be more productive
 
Sorry for all the late reply.
It sounds like the led has a lot more penetration than the cfls so would probably be the better option.
I plan on some serious lst, topping and scrogging so I'd be able to keep the canopy really even. The reason why I came up with the box hood with the acrylic bottom is because I did an experiment and if I had that many bulbs of the 2700k variety it would be too hot to keep the cfl's close enough for good penetration.
If I get the go ahead from the mrs (it's an uphill battle right now) I think I'm going to try both of my ideas (cfls and led) and see which one comes out on top.
The only problem I would have in comparing the 2 light sources would be that they would be one after the other and the second grow would al ways be better than the first grow regardless due to experience and learning from the first mistakes made.
I'm just wondering how much difference there would be if I could keep 15 23w cfls within 2 Inches of the canopy at all times compared to the 300w led?
For me it's more about the fun of the grow and techniques and experimentation than the smoke itself (not a big smoker and the mrs doesn't smoke at all) I'm a real hands on kinda guy and love making and building stuff so that's why I'm kinda keen on the cfl setup cos I get to make it as opposed to to buying and hanging it up. Cost isn't a factor either so the potential power saving I would get from the led isn't really a consideration.
I haven't even looked at potential strains or anything yet but I'm already having a blast!!!
Thanks for your opinions too as I don't have anyone to discuss this stuff with or bounce ideas off.
Keep up the great work 420 community! !!
 
That's the problem with following peoples advice it's hard to know what advice is the best.
I've seen led grows that are better than hps grows but then I've seen cfl grows that are better than led grows and every which way you can think of!! It's not suprising that the newbie grower like myself has such a hard time deciding which way to go with lighting. And that's not even stating on hydro or coco or soil or range of nutes or pot sizes or scrog or sog or supercropping or topping or fimming or hanging upside down hopping on 1 foot praying to create the perfect zen in the grow environment!!!! Lmao
 
LEDBud said:
Show me the measurements as I suspect the 300w 200 x3w diodes with its 50% increased output not 1/3 as you posted has better penetration then the similarly priced 200w 5w diodes mars 2 panel.
In the mean while I have the mars old style true 180w to compare to the mars 2 true 200w panel , I have a light meter if someone has the mars 2 and a cheap lux meter lets do a test Well my lux meter is a professional model with pc input and selectable light sources.

Remember I can buy TWO 180w old style to one of the mars 2 , giving me twice the area and 360w to a mars 2 200w which equates to 160 more watts then the mars 400 , that's 80% more output for about the same $

I assure you I have thought this out and am not disagreeing with you for entertainment.

A Lux meter will denote penetration differences not par values nor a true lux number but it will show penetration differences between led lights.

A new thread might be more productive
Click to expand...

no i have no need for a lux meter. I leave that to those who feel the need to need them.
I see where the paths diverged.
i am comparing a marsII to a old style 100*3
I am sure if one can put enough 3 watters in a grow space that you may get the penetration needed.
But space is the limiting factor here.
The space in the cab and the space in my brain.

i am glad to see ur one who has needed to do their due diligence, blah blah blah......
In the space provided a 5 watter will give better penetration...
Kinda like a 3 inch dick compared to a 5 inch dick.
Better penetration.
I DO bow to your smartitude as i am now looking at the old style 200*3 instead of another 48*3 reflector
Keep up the good work of research and i will keep reading your findings....
Peace
 
Gazzatron said:
That's the problem with following peoples advice it's hard to know what advice is the best.
I've seen led grows that are better than hps grows but then I've seen cfl grows that are better than led grows and every which way you can think of!! It's not suprising that the newbie grower like myself has such a hard time deciding which way to go with lighting. And that's not even stating on hydro or coco or soil or range of nutes or pot sizes or scrog or sog or supercropping or topping or fimming or hanging upside down hopping on 1 foot praying to create the perfect zen in the grow environment!!!! Lmao
Click to expand...

But thats the supposed joy of growing.
Finding what works FOR YOU in the space YOU have To efficiently grow enough to maintain your needs.
If EVERYONE could have a grow room or tent or closet with ENOUGH space and lights to just grow there would be no problems.
BUT not everyone is so lucky...
So if best yeilds are not a issue for you, and all you want to do is grow then just get any led that will grow.
But if you wish to maximize your yields with the few plants you have, choose not only your LIGHT carefully but also
your grow technique (i.e. training) carefully. Match your LED to your GROW technique.
forums are here to let you get ideas from EVERYONE and then you have the freedom to choose the advise you wish.
(god bless the USAAAAAAA!)
I realize my post count is low HERE...
But i have huge post counts on Overgrow :rip:, CC, & IC. Not that it means anything.....
Have fun
Grow on
pax:peacetwo::party:
 
Gazzatron I like your idea of trying the cfl's first , a great learning experience to test the waters growing under lights and training plants , many people start off with cfl's or tubes.

The led panels have a small footprint , you would need to use 2 panels to grow in a 2x4 sq.ft area for instance or even 3 panels in a 2x4 ft area if you were so inclined. I might be using 3 panels in my 2x4 x 6' ft high cabinet , for sure 2 panels.

Tejasdirt I understand your position , the Mars 2 400 is the New version (the new version is always more $ that's life) and replaces the old 300w. I agree that the Mars 2 400 is better then the mars old 300 and will penetrate better do to the more concentrated light coming from less bulbs , although be it only 20 less bulbs in this case it must make some difference , especially to the ladies (lol).. :peace:
 
To complete my list of facts is this final set of numbers so you know how much power the LED's are consuming.

All mars2 uses 2.5w per LED's

All Mars old style use 1.8w per LED's

You would need massive cooling to run the LED's at full wattage which is why they don't , its more practical to under power larger LED's then it is to use the maximum wattage , Hence the 3w led at 1.8w and the 5w at 2.5w , this is the industry standard.
 
Gazzatron, Tulip had a fantastic thread on CFLs that you should read, if you haven't already, that covers the subject thoroughly. It was invaluable to my decision to start with CFLs.

https://https://www.420magazine.com/community/threads/cfl-light-tutorial.111680/

I used a different approach from having just a canopy light. I hung the lights around the plant to fill every bit of it with light. It seems to be working well until I can upgrade to an LED fixture. Even so, I still plan to supplement with CFLs. My space is 1'x2'. No way could I fit more than a small LED in there and I don't believe it would give me enough lumens to satisfy the plants' needs.

Good luck with the project.
 
Thanks for the feedback Sue! I think Tulips thread was one of the first I read and it really does help with making an informed decision.
I did a bit of an experiment with some cfls the other day and the problem I have is, with 10 or so 23w cfls in my cab with 2 100mm comp fans, 1 for intake and 1 for exhaust the temps reached 45c and I'd still have another 5 more bulbs to put in there. It's the middle of summer here and unless I buy a portable a/c to vent into the cabinet it's just too bloody hot!!
Since I have all the materials laying around the house to make the cfl hood thingy (option 1 in my first post) I think it's my only option to keep the cab cool enough without costing me a wad of cash.
Do you think if I did a scrog to keep the canopy even that my idea would work? They would be 2-3 inches max from the tops so I don't see why it wouldn't?
I'll be honest and tell you that all the cfl grow journals I've read, the dangling lights all around the plants drives me nuts!!
I'm a little ocd when it comes to things being tidy and I'd end up buying an led halfway through the grow if I had bulbs hanging from wires!! You should see my garage, not a nut or bolt out of place! Lmao
Now all I need to do is convince the Mrs that doing the grow cab is a good idea.... She's a tough nut to crack but I convinced her to have a relationship with me and I'm a pain in the a$$ so there's gotta be hope Haha
 
Gazzatron said:
Thanks for the feedback Sue! I think Tulips thread was one of the first I read and it really does help with making an informed decision.
I did a bit of an experiment with some cfls the other day and the problem I have is, with 10 or so 23w cfls in my cab with 2 100mm comp fans, 1 for intake and 1 for exhaust the temps reached 45c and I'd still have another 5 more bulbs to put in there. It's the middle of summer here and unless I buy a portable a/c to vent into the cabinet it's just too bloody hot!!
Since I have all the materials laying around the house to make the cfl hood thingy (option 1 in my first post) I think it's my only option to keep the cab cool enough without costing me a wad of cash.
Do you think if I did a scrog to keep the canopy even that my idea would work? They would be 2-3 inches max from the tops so I don't see why it wouldn't?
I'll be honest and tell you that all the cfl grow journals I've read, the dangling lights all around the plants drives me nuts!!
I'm a little ocd when it comes to things being tidy and I'd end up buying an led halfway through the grow if I had bulbs hanging from wires!! You should see my garage, not a nut or bolt out of place! Lmao
Now all I need to do is convince the Mrs that doing the grow cab is a good idea.... She's a tough nut to crack but I convinced her to have a relationship with me and I'm a pain in the a$$ so there's gotta be hope Haha
Click to expand...

I can only speak for myself.

I had the same problem with heat when I was using cfls in the beginning. Honestly, I think I spent more on CFL bulbs, fixtures, material to make a hood, small lamps for side lighting etc. then both of my Mars II 400s. For me, the heat is lower, I don't need the side lighting because of the penetration I get with the LEDs and I am using 1/2 the electricity. It was a win win for me.
 

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