HPS vs LED wattage

Veghead

New Member
Hi, I feel like I'm not quite understanding something here, so my question is this..

If you were to replace a 600hps light, with a 1200w LED (which is apparently like for like), which has a true output of say up to 550w then what's the point in converting if the true output of the LED unit is less or equal to the initial set up? Nothing will be saved on energy because it's the same.. So even though the true output may be less, or even substantially less, does the labelled potential wattage (1200) produce more intense light than the 600w?
Heat isn't an issue that I'd be contemplating converting, I just thought id be getting almost double the intense peneterable light for the same wattage by switching over, but the more I read, it seems that's no the case?
 
Hello Veghead and welcome to :420:

I use LED and did in fact swap out a 600w HPS for a 1200w LED as you stated in your example, now let me explain why I did it.
First and foremost with a proven LED a 600w HPS equivalent will run less watts from the wall than a HPS plus ballast because of the light spectrum emitted being a lot more beneficial for your plants, concentrating on the wavelengths that your plant can actually use whereas a HPS has a lot of it's spectrum wasted, therefore consuming electric that can go to waste as heat rather than being beneficial to the plant. You could think of it like this:

A 600w HPS draws around 700w from the wall (including the ballast) and emits light of which the plant can use 400w worth. The green spectrum is of no use to the plant so goes to waste.
A 600w (watts drawn from the wall) LED emits the red and blue spectrum that the plant can fully utilise meaning that the 600w of electricity that you are paying for is fully utilised by the plant.

As you can see it's more about light efficiency rather than the amount of wattage used, plus as we can use lower wattages for the plants with the same results this in turn cuts down on temperatures meaning less cost on the use of extraction fans etc so it has a slight knock on effect on overall costs.

A couple of things to note are that the penetration of certain LED's cannot match that of HPS so different methods of growing are required to achieve better results, such as scrogging, sea of green and lollipopping etc. Lately though as LED's are developing (Cree LED's have a much better penetration than most other LED's on the market) that difference is becoming less and less and in turn efficiency is deemed better as we yield more grams of bud per wattage used.

I hope this helps in some way, I'm no lighting engineer but have used both types of lighting (amongst others) so I can at least give you my own personal experience of them. All the best and may your buds be bountiful :thumb:
 
Straight and Simple,

HPS puts out 140 lumens per watt for 1kw bulbs = 140,000 lumens

HID has losses in the reflector and the ballast in terms of total efficiency.

LED you could get away with >%66 of the wattage consumption and be equal to a mag ballast HID of similar watt consumption

A decent 700W LED could battle with a 1000W HPS... maybe.

I Flower under HPS. VEG with LED

The only benefit to LED are the temperatures. The rest is questionable at best. Still a qwirky technology for average consumer that is not an electronic engineer unless they have money to buy expensive china made plug and play products and replace the entire lamp as LEDs fail over time. A good LED that can run against a 1kw HID could be >$1200 easy



V:bongrip:
 
Straight and Simple,

HPS puts out 140 lumens per watt for 1kw bulbs = 140,000 lumens

HID has losses in the reflector and the ballast in terms of total efficiency.

LED you could get away with >%66 of the wattage consumption and be equal to a mag ballast HID of similar watt consumption

A decent 700W LED could battle with a 1000W HPS... maybe.

I Flower under HPS. VEG with LED

The only benefit to LED are the temperatures. The rest is questionable at best. Still a qwirky technology for average consumer that is not an electronic engineer unless they have money to buy expensive china made plug and play products and replace the entire lamp as LEDs fail over time. A good LED that can run against a 1kw HID could be >$1200 easy



V:bongrip:

like he said. its all about the lumes and spectrum.
veg they dont need a certain spectrum or as much lumens so you can use a low what blue led 2500-3000k which is gives off the perfect light for veg but will do nothing in flower.
You can then go with a t8 led at 7000k in flower but the lumens just wont give you the bud compared to a hps.

I usually go with a t8 for veg and then switch to hps duel spec but now i stopped as it takes up room. Really considering going back as im using a 600w duel spec on seedlings and not much growth for the cost of electric.

Im curious in all this led and cfl stuff but yet to see something led that gives same results as a hps at the same kind of price.

In answer to your question, veg doesnt need as much lumens or a certain spectrum so you can use a cheap led with dedicated spectrum to get you threw veg- saving you money but soons flower comes its all about max lumens per watt=grams per watt/per lumen.

that 1 guy above talk so much about hps being no good for veg lmao, that down to bulb choice and dedication to that spectrum but most kits come standard as duel spec.
 
like he said. its all about the lumes and spectrum.
veg they dont need a certain spectrum or as much lumens so you can use a low what blue led 2500-3000k which is gives off the perfect light for veg but will do nothing in flower.
You can then go with a t8 led at 7000k in flower but the lumens just wont give you the bud compared to a hps.

I usually go with a t8 for veg and then switch to hps duel spec but now i stopped as it takes up room. Really considering going back as im using a 600w duel spec on seedlings and not much growth for the cost of electric.

Im curious in all this led and cfl stuff but yet to see something led that gives same results as a hps at the same kind of price.

In answer to your question, veg doesnt need as much lumens or a certain spectrum so you can use a cheap led with dedicated spectrum to get you threw veg- saving you money but soons flower comes its all about max lumens per watt=grams per watt/per lumen.

that 1 guy above talk so much about hps being no good for veg lmao, that down to bulb choice and dedication to that spectrum but most kits come standard as duel spec

If you have a point to make you may want to put it across without disparaging other people to reinforce your opinion. There's no need to be rude here :goodjob:
 
Hello Veghead and welcome to :420:

I use LED and did in fact swap out a 600w HPS for a 1200w LED as you stated in your example, now let me explain why I did it.
First and foremost with a proven LED a 600w HPS equivalent will run less watts from the wall than a HPS plus ballast because of the light spectrum emitted being a lot more beneficial for your plants, concentrating on the wavelengths that your plant can actually use whereas a HPS has a lot of it's spectrum wasted, therefore consuming electric that can go to waste as heat rather than being beneficial to the plant. You could think of it like this:

A 600w HPS draws around 700w from the wall (including the ballast) and emits light of which the plant can use 400w worth. The green spectrum is of no use to the plant so goes to waste.
A 600w (watts drawn from the wall) LED emits the red and blue spectrum that the plant can fully utilise meaning that the 600w of electricity that you are paying for is fully utilised by the plant.

As you can see it's more about light efficiency rather than the amount of wattage used, plus as we can use lower wattages for the plants with the same results this in turn cuts down on temperatures meaning less cost on the use of extraction fans etc so it has a slight knock on effect on overall costs.

A couple of things to note are that the penetration of certain LED's cannot match that of HPS so different methods of growing are required to achieve better results, such as scrogging, sea of green and lollipopping etc. Lately though as LED's are developing (Cree LED's have a much better penetration than most other LED's on the market) that difference is becoming less and less and in turn efficiency is deemed better as we yield more grams of bud per wattage used.

I hope this helps in some way, I'm no lighting engineer but have used both types of lighting (amongst others) so I can at least give you my own personal experience of them. All the best and may your buds be bountiful :thumb:
Hi Kriaze, thanks for the warm welcome. You've provided me with exactly what I was looking for. I wish I came straight here instead of searching the Internet for hours hag, gaining nothing but a fucked mind.
So you mention of using a proven unit.. Is it really not worth buying anything that's not top of the line? My budget isn't massive see..
I've been looking at the BossLed 2 units on amazon uk which are currently on sale and they seem to be pretty tidy and have great reviews. Twin HID LEDs, but the 1200w will only have a true wattage of around 300w.. and the 1600w is around 400w.. which is a massive difference. I can guarantee that's it's a damn site brighter than a 300w light. But that's what I thought led was all about, they produce a high intensity light whilst only running at a fraction of wattage to its equivalent. Surely a 1200w would produce a far more intense light + greater lumens than a 300w HPS, even though the true wattage is the same.
I've got 10w led lights in my house that are 50w equivalents and they're blinding!
 
Straight and Simple,

HPS puts out 140 lumens per watt for 1kw bulbs = 140,000 lumens

HID has losses in the reflector and the ballast in terms of total efficiency.

LED you could get away with >%66 of the wattage consumption and be equal to a mag ballast HID of similar watt consumption

A decent 700W LED could battle with a 1000W HPS... maybe.

I Flower under HPS. VEG with LED

The only benefit to LED are the temperatures. The rest is questionable at best. Still a qwirky technology for average consumer that is not an electronic engineer unless they have money to buy expensive china made plug and play products and replace the entire lamp as LEDs fail over time. A good LED that can run against a 1kw HID could be >$1200 easy



V:bongrip:

Haha, you make it sound straight and simple vlad but trying to wrap my noggin around it is taking some time.
Regardless of true wattage and watt for watt, I've always thought the purpose of LED'S were to provide high intensity light at a fraction of the energy.
Any reason why you decide to only veg with LED?
 
Hi Kriaze, thanks for the warm welcome. You've provided me with exactly what I was looking for. I wish I came straight here instead of searching the Internet for hours hag, gaining nothing but a fucked mind.
So you mention of using a proven unit.. Is it really not worth buying anything that's not top of the line? My budget isn't massive see..
I've been looking at the BossLed 2 units on amazon uk which are currently on sale and they seem to be pretty tidy and have great reviews. Twin HID LEDs, but the 1200w will only have a true wattage of around 300w.. and the 1600w is around 400w.. which is a massive difference. I can guarantee that's it's a damn site brighter than a 300w light. But that's what I thought led was all about, they produce a high intensity light whilst only running at a fraction of wattage to its equivalent. Surely a 1200w would produce a far more intense light + greater lumens than a 300w HPS, even though the true wattage is the same.
I've got 10w led lights in my house that are 50w equivalents and they're blinding!

If you can go for a top of the line LED by all means do so but if funds are tight then there are plenty of grows on here that use cheaper but proven technology (such as Mars Hydro) and they suffice whilst being cheaper on electricity and keeping temperatures down, it might be worth you having a read through some journals so that you can decide whether you think they are for you or not. Mr Amazin uses Mars Hydro with good results as does Cofinest (CoFinest also uses some slightly more expensive LED's which I also use too) so you may want to look them up. At the other end of the scale I would suggest checking out Light Addict who uses the Budmaster GOD range which are very expensive in comparison, but along with his excellent growing knowledge and fluxing technique he can pull over 20oz per plant!

You could also read through my journals where I use Mars Hydro lights but I'm no experienced grower and only grow for personal use but I am also honest and unbiased regarding any review that I write. I love the Mars II 1600w light (768 wall watts) and have had some excellent results using it in both veg mode and flowering, but in less than a year I am having to replace some of the LED's that have burned out, it seems this was a problem that they caught after my light was shipped out so the situation has probably been rectified by now. I have no love for their Reflector series but others swear by them. The best value they offer from my personal point of view are their 'new' old style 300w lights. At £60-£70 a pop you can throw two or three in a 4' x 4' tent with some reasonable results through both stages of growth.

I can understand why VladimirPutin uses HID for flowering as I too do believe they give a bigger yield due to the extra light penetration but I'm not too sure about the lumen side of things as light meters (I'm a Photographer and did a test on the lumen output of LED's on one of my journals) only read light that is visible to the naked eye. So although the lumen output of LED may read less than HID the actual available light to the plant is much higher than readings suggest. Without being too technical (both because it's a long indepth discussion plus as I stated earlier that I'm no lighting engineer) light output is best looked at from a PAR (Photo Active Radiation) perspective, which as far as I can gather is how much available light photons the plant is able to use from any specific light. If you want someone that is technologically minded and would be able to go into great detail regarding LED's then if you use the search function to find Icemud you will have as much knowledge as you could ever want.

I'm not quite sure what point Rixta was trying to make but if you decide to go for different spectrums for vegging and flowering I'm afraid that he has it the wrong way around. You should be looking for between 5000k and 6500k for the veg period and then 2500k and 3500k for flowering, 2500k to 3500k has much more of the red spectrum which is essential to flowering.

Finally what we should all remember is that Cannabis is a weed and will grow pretty much anywhere so as long as the plant is getting enough light it will grow. The difference in the amount of light the plant receives will of course affect the yield, less light giving stretched plants with airy fluffy buds (usually referred to as 'larfy' around here) whereas more light will give good compact nodes and big dense nugs, which is what we all want :) There are other factors to take into consideration like the medium, nutrients used and growing environment, but without enough light you are sure to sacrifice yield. I hope this has been of some help, if you have any questions then fire away, if I can't answer them myself I can always pm someone that does have that knowledge on your behalf :thumb:
 
Haha, you make it sound straight and simple vlad but trying to wrap my noggin around it is taking some time.
Regardless of true wattage and watt for watt, I've always thought the purpose of LED'S were to provide high intensity light at a fraction of the energy.
Any reason why you decide to only veg with LED?

I veg with LED because I have white ones that do a good job of keeping the plants short and nicely bushy. I don't like MH because they depreciate in lumens after first crop. And flower with HPS because I have easy access to HID equipment through commercial sales. I get 400W sylvannia Super HPS bulb + digital ballast for just $70 without reflector.

For me it's all about the BANG I get from small amounts of money so I reap more profit. I want to bombard my plants with lots of light in Flower and HID can do it with flying colors if the heat is controlled.
 
If you can go for a top of the line LED by all means do so but if funds are tight then there are plenty of grows on here that use cheaper but proven technology (such as Mars Hydro) and they suffice whilst being cheaper on electricity and keeping temperatures down, it might be worth you having a read through some journals so that you can decide whether you think they are for you or not. Mr Amazin uses Mars Hydro with good results as does Cofinest (CoFinest also uses some slightly more expensive LED's which I also use too) so you may want to look them up. At the other end of the scale I would suggest checking out Light Addict who uses the Budmaster GOD range which are very expensive in comparison, but along with his excellent growing knowledge and fluxing technique he can pull over 20oz per plant!

You could also read through my journals where I use Mars Hydro lights but I'm no experienced grower and only grow for personal use but I am also honest and unbiased regarding any review that I write. I love the Mars II 1600w light (768 wall watts) and have had some excellent results using it in both veg mode and flowering, but in less than a year I am having to replace some of the LED's that have burned out, it seems this was a problem that they caught after my light was shipped out so the situation has probably been rectified by now. I have no love for their Reflector series but others swear by them. The best value they offer from my personal point of view are their 'new' old style 300w lights. At £60-£70 a pop you can throw two or three in a 4' x 4' tent with some reasonable results through both stages of growth.

I can understand why VladimirPutin uses HID for flowering as I too do believe they give a bigger yield due to the extra light penetration but I'm not too sure about the lumen side of things as light meters (I'm a Photographer and did a test on the lumen output of LED's on one of my journals) only read light that is visible to the naked eye. So although the lumen output of LED may read less than HID the actual available light to the plant is much higher than readings suggest. Without being too technical (both because it's a long indepth discussion plus as I stated earlier that I'm no lighting engineer) light output is best looked at from a PAR (Photo Active Radiation) perspective, which as far as I can gather is how much available light photons the plant is able to use from any specific light. If you want someone that is technologically minded and would be able to go into great detail regarding LED's then if you use the search function to find Icemud you will have as much knowledge as you could ever want.

I'm not quite sure what point Rixta was trying to make but if you decide to go for different spectrums for vegging and flowering I'm afraid that he has it the wrong way around. You should be looking for between 5000k and 6500k for the veg period and then 2500k and 3500k for flowering, 2500k to 3500k has much more of the red spectrum which is essential to flowering.

Finally what we should all remember is that Cannabis is a weed and will grow pretty much anywhere so as long as the plant is getting enough light it will grow. The difference in the amount of light the plant receives will of course affect the yield, less light giving stretched plants with airy fluffy buds (usually referred to as 'larfy' around here) whereas more light will give good compact nodes and big dense nugs, which is what we all want :) There are other factors to take into consideration like the medium, nutrients used and growing environment, but without enough light you are sure to sacrifice yield. I hope this has been of some help, if you have any questions then fire away, if I can't answer them myself I can always pm someone that does have that knowledge on your behalf :thumb:
Cracking repose that was Kriaze. Thanks pal. Will definitely check out your journals and those to you suggested. Gradually starting to wrap my mind around it all slowly. Being completely clueless with lighting knowledge/terminology, it was all a bit daunting to start.
To make up for the lack of/low penetration, couldn't that be combated with some T5 strips secured to the corners of my tent?
Got it in my mind now that skimping on cost ain't worth it, and shall save up for something Mars hydro standard or above.

I veg with LED because I have white ones that do a good job of keeping the plants short and nicely bushy. I don't like MH because they depreciate in lumens after first crop. And flower with HPS because I have easy access to HID equipment through commercial sales. I get 400W sylvannia Super HPS bulb + digital ballast for just $70 without reflector.

For me it's all about the BANG I get from small amounts of money so I reap more profit. I want to bombard my plants with lots of light in Flower and HID can do it with flying colors if the heat is controlled.


Sent from my GT-I9505 using 420 Magazine Mobile App
 
I veg with LED because I have white ones that do a good job of keeping the plants short and nicely bushy. I don't like MH because they depreciate in lumens after first crop. And flower with HPS because I have easy access to HID equipment through commercial sales. I get 400W sylvannia Super HPS bulb + digital ballast for just $70 without reflector.

For me it's all about the BANG I get from small amounts of money so I reap more profit. I want to bombard my plants with lots of light in Flower and HID can do it with flying colors if the heat is controlled.
Fair point Vlad. Never thought about looking at higher quality lamps.. to me, a light bulb has always been just a light bulb
 
Cracking repose that was Kriaze. Thanks pal. Will definitely check out your journals and those to you suggested. Gradually starting to wrap my mind around it all slowly. Being completely clueless with lighting knowledge/terminology, it was all a bit daunting to start.
To make up for the lack of/low penetration, couldn't that be combated with some T5 strips secured to the corners of my tent?
Got it in my mind now that skimping on cost ain't worth it, and shall save up for something Mars hydro standard or above.


You could go either way to help penetration Veghead. Either by supplementing additional light during flower or by using one of the LED friendly growing techniques such as Scrogging (screen of green), lollipopping or sea of green. Either way will help with yield :thumb:
 
like he said. its all about the lumes and spectrum.
veg they dont need a certain spectrum or as much lumens so you can use a low what blue led 2500-3000k which is gives off the perfect light for veg but will do nothing in flower.
You can then go with a t8 led at 7000k in flower but the lumens just wont give you the bud compared to a hps.

I usually go with a t8 for veg and then switch to hps duel spec but now i stopped as it takes up room. Really considering going back as im using a 600w duel spec on seedlings and not much growth for the cost of electric.

Im curious in all this led and cfl stuff but yet to see something led that gives same results as a hps at the same kind of price.

In answer to your question, veg doesnt need as much lumens or a certain spectrum so you can use a cheap led with dedicated spectrum to get you threw veg- saving you money but soons flower comes its all about max lumens per watt=grams per watt/per lumen.

that 1 guy above talk so much shyt lol specially about hps being no good for veg lmfao, that down to bulb choice and dedication to that soectrum but most kits come standard as duel spec. chatting out his ass


Just an fyi you are giving backward information. The cooler white spectrums 6500k ARE excellent for veg and warmer spectrums 3500k ARE better for flower. Also in hid mh is boss for vegetative and hps rocks flower just to clear up the false information. I veg with two snap-on led work lights in 6500k 35w/sq ft :cheer:

t8 are fluorescent not led.
 
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