im planning on growing indoors with a large amount of cfl's rather than hps bulbs to reduce heat and save on the electric bill. however a friend pointed out that with all those cfl's equalling roughly 400 watts i should get 1, 400 watt hps bulb. Is 1 400watt hps gonna cost the same as cfl's equally 400watts on the electric bill? As far as heat which is the better route to go? Ive always known about the benefits of hps lighting but ive kinda been paranoid about the electricity use and ive always wanted to be discreet and creative with cfl's. The more i think about it, 1 hps light might be more efficient? please anyone with insight help me out, thanks evryone
Cfl's or Hps?
- Thread starter Bobby44
- Start date
well being that your electric bill is based on wattage I would say 400 watts = 400 watts... , but depending on your house size , how much power you use allready , how many people in the household ect you should be able to easily get away with up to 2000 watts in lights + fans/exaust etc for roughly $80 a month more on your electricity bill...I was allways told not to go over 4 1000 watt lights and you should be safe , as heat , depends on your set up , most HPS hoods are air cooled so if you run the phresh charcoal filter with a vortex or something simular you should be fine..but again it all depends on the set up
yep, what cyrystic said.
400 0watts used is 400 watts used.
But
Allow me to share some information with you about Lights, especially CFLs.
CFLs vs HID Lights
If you want to start an argument fast, then visit an Internet Grow Forum or Chat Room and mention CFLs vs HID Lights.
Let me just tell you a fact. HID Lights (High Intensity Discharge Lights) are much more efficient than CFLs (Compact Fluorescent Lights) and they grow FASTER and penetrate a large plant much better than CFLs do. HID lights grow tighter denser buds too. That is a fact that no one should argue. HIDs win easily.
But wait a minute. What costs more to purchase? What requires a fancier Reflector and costs more to hang? What cost more to use and adds more to the electric bill unles the wattage is equal? What cost more to handle the HEAT? What do I have to VENT? What will VENTING cost?
HEAT? VENTING? I can touch a 200 watt CFL for ten seconds and not burn my hand. I can hold a burning 42, 65, or 85 watt bulb in my hand for five seconds and not get burnt. I can touch a HID bulb for half a second and have a serious blister and burn. Touching a HID bulb is like touching the burner on an electric stove. If you use HID bulbs, not only will you have to cool the bulb, you will have to cool the grow area too. Growing with HID lights requires VENTING the HEAT, and that cost extra money, BIG MONEY.
If you are a large scale grower, or commercial grower, HID lights are best for you.
If you are a small grower, a closet or tent grower, an occasional grower, a small scale personal use grower, then CFLs just might be your best, easiest, cheapest way to grow.
REMEMBER I SAID THIS DOES COASE DEBATE!
As I mentioned, I like the cheaper CFLs because of their mobility and ease of use. When I did my first grow over three years ago, a 65 watt CFL bulb was the largest made and sold. Today I see up to 300 watt CFLS, but I do not advise using the larger watt CFL bulbs.
Let me share a magazine article with you about Lighting.
From Ed Rosenthal:
In the new Skunk Magazine there was a question in the "Ask Ed" section that just made my night last night when reading it...
The Question Was:
I intend to grow a single cannabis plant in a space 1' x 2'. What light would you recommend? I was think of using four 30-watt compact fluorescent lamps. Will this be enough? Cost isn't an issue but I am deterred from getting a high pressure sodium [light] because of the amount of heat the bulb produces.
The Answer Is:
As you mentioned, you have several lighting systems to choose from, including compact fluorescents and high pressure sodium (HPS) lamps. Among HPS lamps you have a choice between a single 100-watt lamp which uses a total of about 120-watts and emits about 8,800 lumens(73 lumens per watt) or a 150-watt lamp, which uses about 180 watts and emits almost double that-15,800 lumens (87 lumens per watt).
A 42-watt compact fluorescent (CFL) emits about 2700 lumens(64 lumens per watt). Four 42 watt CFLs use 168 watts and emit 10,800 lumens. Other size CFLs have a similar efficiency.
However, that is only part of the story. Plants use mostly red and blue light. Yellow and green light is of little use to them, so light that is emitted in these spectrums is wasted energy. Most of the light emitted by HPS lamps is in the yellow spectrum. Only a small amount of the emitted light is in the orange or red spectrums, which plants use efficiently. Warm white fluorescents (2700 Kelvin) emit a greater portion in the red and orange sectors.
Although fluorescents produce only about 75% of the light per watt that the HPS does, the amount of light usable by the plant is equal or probably higher with the fluorescents. You may wish to experiment to see if adding a single cool white CFL to replace one warm white results in shorter, stouter stems and more vigorous growth. The reasoning is that warm whites don't emit much blue light, which the plants use for photosynthesis and to regulate their growth. The cool white bulb supplies the blue light.
My call for your unit would be to use several (three to five) CFLs with a total input of between 120-160 watts. Although the 150 watt HPS is a bit more efficient that the CFLs in total output, watt for watt the fluorescents provide as much useful light as the HPS lamp. Heat is another consideration. The HPS runs much hotter and emits more heat than the flourescents.
Make sure to use reflective material around the garden so that any light escaping the garden is reflected back to the plants. Any light that doesn't get to the plant leaves is wasted.
Look at a lumen/watt ration of various CFL's. The higher the wattage of CFLs, the lower the lumen/watt ratio. This chart was submitted by Jerry Garcia, a grow buddy from another grow site, and edited for typos.
For example...
the 200w listed at 9250 lumens for a lumens/watt ratio of 9250/200=46.25
the 150w is listed at 7500 lumens for a l/w ratio of 7500/150=50
the 125w is listed at 6500 lumens for a l/w ratio of 6500/125=52
the 42w are listed for 2700 lumens, l/w ratio of 2700/42=64.28
I have some 26w that give off 1700 lumens for a l/w ratio of 1700/26=65.38
GE lists some 13w that give off 825 lumens for a l/w ratio of 825/13=63.46
So, according to these numbers the most efficient bulbs for growing are the 26w that emit 1700 lumens. If you used 8 26w bulbs (208 watts total) you'd be getting 13,600 lumens...4,350 more lumens than a single 200 watt CFL. AND the eight 26 watt bulbs would cost less than the one 200 watt bulb.
I suppose you need to purchase more sockets and cords and things to support 8 bulbs, but in the long run more lower watt CFLs seem like the way to go THAN HIGHER WATT CFLS.
400 0watts used is 400 watts used.
But
Allow me to share some information with you about Lights, especially CFLs.
CFLs vs HID Lights
If you want to start an argument fast, then visit an Internet Grow Forum or Chat Room and mention CFLs vs HID Lights.
Let me just tell you a fact. HID Lights (High Intensity Discharge Lights) are much more efficient than CFLs (Compact Fluorescent Lights) and they grow FASTER and penetrate a large plant much better than CFLs do. HID lights grow tighter denser buds too. That is a fact that no one should argue. HIDs win easily.
But wait a minute. What costs more to purchase? What requires a fancier Reflector and costs more to hang? What cost more to use and adds more to the electric bill unles the wattage is equal? What cost more to handle the HEAT? What do I have to VENT? What will VENTING cost?
HEAT? VENTING? I can touch a 200 watt CFL for ten seconds and not burn my hand. I can hold a burning 42, 65, or 85 watt bulb in my hand for five seconds and not get burnt. I can touch a HID bulb for half a second and have a serious blister and burn. Touching a HID bulb is like touching the burner on an electric stove. If you use HID bulbs, not only will you have to cool the bulb, you will have to cool the grow area too. Growing with HID lights requires VENTING the HEAT, and that cost extra money, BIG MONEY.
If you are a large scale grower, or commercial grower, HID lights are best for you.
If you are a small grower, a closet or tent grower, an occasional grower, a small scale personal use grower, then CFLs just might be your best, easiest, cheapest way to grow.
REMEMBER I SAID THIS DOES COASE DEBATE!
As I mentioned, I like the cheaper CFLs because of their mobility and ease of use. When I did my first grow over three years ago, a 65 watt CFL bulb was the largest made and sold. Today I see up to 300 watt CFLS, but I do not advise using the larger watt CFL bulbs.
Let me share a magazine article with you about Lighting.
From Ed Rosenthal:
In the new Skunk Magazine there was a question in the "Ask Ed" section that just made my night last night when reading it...
The Question Was:
I intend to grow a single cannabis plant in a space 1' x 2'. What light would you recommend? I was think of using four 30-watt compact fluorescent lamps. Will this be enough? Cost isn't an issue but I am deterred from getting a high pressure sodium [light] because of the amount of heat the bulb produces.
The Answer Is:
As you mentioned, you have several lighting systems to choose from, including compact fluorescents and high pressure sodium (HPS) lamps. Among HPS lamps you have a choice between a single 100-watt lamp which uses a total of about 120-watts and emits about 8,800 lumens(73 lumens per watt) or a 150-watt lamp, which uses about 180 watts and emits almost double that-15,800 lumens (87 lumens per watt).
A 42-watt compact fluorescent (CFL) emits about 2700 lumens(64 lumens per watt). Four 42 watt CFLs use 168 watts and emit 10,800 lumens. Other size CFLs have a similar efficiency.
However, that is only part of the story. Plants use mostly red and blue light. Yellow and green light is of little use to them, so light that is emitted in these spectrums is wasted energy. Most of the light emitted by HPS lamps is in the yellow spectrum. Only a small amount of the emitted light is in the orange or red spectrums, which plants use efficiently. Warm white fluorescents (2700 Kelvin) emit a greater portion in the red and orange sectors.
Although fluorescents produce only about 75% of the light per watt that the HPS does, the amount of light usable by the plant is equal or probably higher with the fluorescents. You may wish to experiment to see if adding a single cool white CFL to replace one warm white results in shorter, stouter stems and more vigorous growth. The reasoning is that warm whites don't emit much blue light, which the plants use for photosynthesis and to regulate their growth. The cool white bulb supplies the blue light.
My call for your unit would be to use several (three to five) CFLs with a total input of between 120-160 watts. Although the 150 watt HPS is a bit more efficient that the CFLs in total output, watt for watt the fluorescents provide as much useful light as the HPS lamp. Heat is another consideration. The HPS runs much hotter and emits more heat than the flourescents.
Make sure to use reflective material around the garden so that any light escaping the garden is reflected back to the plants. Any light that doesn't get to the plant leaves is wasted.
Look at a lumen/watt ration of various CFL's. The higher the wattage of CFLs, the lower the lumen/watt ratio. This chart was submitted by Jerry Garcia, a grow buddy from another grow site, and edited for typos.
For example...
the 200w listed at 9250 lumens for a lumens/watt ratio of 9250/200=46.25
the 150w is listed at 7500 lumens for a l/w ratio of 7500/150=50
the 125w is listed at 6500 lumens for a l/w ratio of 6500/125=52
the 42w are listed for 2700 lumens, l/w ratio of 2700/42=64.28
I have some 26w that give off 1700 lumens for a l/w ratio of 1700/26=65.38
GE lists some 13w that give off 825 lumens for a l/w ratio of 825/13=63.46
So, according to these numbers the most efficient bulbs for growing are the 26w that emit 1700 lumens. If you used 8 26w bulbs (208 watts total) you'd be getting 13,600 lumens...4,350 more lumens than a single 200 watt CFL. AND the eight 26 watt bulbs would cost less than the one 200 watt bulb.
I suppose you need to purchase more sockets and cords and things to support 8 bulbs, but in the long run more lower watt CFLs seem like the way to go THAN HIGHER WATT CFLS.
i have 8 cfls 3 2700k, 2 5500k, and 3 6500k all 26 watts.
i use the aluminum clamp reflctors 6" wide. i like moving them around
i also use a 400watt hps 2100k and a 400 watt 6000k metal halide.
the grow room has alot of blue and pinkish red.
plants love the spectrum and i like the dense buds from the hids
i use the aluminum clamp reflctors 6" wide. i like moving them around
i also use a 400watt hps 2100k and a 400 watt 6000k metal halide.
the grow room has alot of blue and pinkish red.
plants love the spectrum and i like the dense buds from the hids
i used cfls and t8's in a closet grow.
i came out ok. fluffy .
i use mh and hps now 800 watts. and 8 26 watt cfls w/ aluminum clamp reflectors.
getting a wide spectrum from 2100k hps,2 2700k cfls, 4 5500k, and 2 6500k, and the MH is 7200k opti blue ushio conversion bulb.
i got bigger dense buds now. it was worth the investment.
i came out ok. fluffy .
i use mh and hps now 800 watts. and 8 26 watt cfls w/ aluminum clamp reflectors.
getting a wide spectrum from 2100k hps,2 2700k cfls, 4 5500k, and 2 6500k, and the MH is 7200k opti blue ushio conversion bulb.
i got bigger dense buds now. it was worth the investment.
I chose to comment because you mentioned going with either a HPS or a large amount of CFLs. That tells me that many of the pro-CFL arguments for a smaller garden where smaller yields would be considered adequate might not apply to you.
In side-by-side testing, the HPS is more efficient than an equal amount of watts of CFL.
In a light, the electricity that doesn't get turned into light gets turned into HEAT. 400 watts of CFL produces more heat than one 400-watt HPS.
To grow comparable yields, you generally require roughly twice the wattage in CFLs that you do in HPS. So double the heat. And the electricity.
Don't forget to add in the amount of electricity required to remove that heat.
Speaking of heat, a large portion of it comes from the ballasts. Most HPS setups have a remote ballast on a nice long cord. You can simply set it outside of the grow room. Most CFL bulbs have their ballasts built in. Therefore, the heat from their ballasts is in the grow room.
(I used to have an article showing how to separate the ballast from the bulb part of a CFL bulb but have since lost it.)
Another significant portion of the heat produced by a light comes from the bulb itself. There are a plethora of air-cooled hoods available for a HPS light. I have yet to see an air-cooled hood for (as an example) 400 (or was that 800?
) watts of CFL bulbs. I suspect that it would be quite large and unwieldy.With an air-cooled hood, one can remove the heat produced by the bulb. One can run a duct from outside the grow room, through the light, through another duct, and blow it somewhere else with a fan.
Such a setup has the added benefit of separating the heat in a grow from the smell. Yes, there are people using both types of lighting that vent their entire grow room - lights included - as a unit. But I wouldn't recommend this practice. Whatever your odor-removal weapon of choice is, it will always work better - and longer - if it only has to treat a little bit of smelly air of normal temperature as opposed to a great deal of HOT smelly air.
Additionally, a "sealed" air-cooled hood might just lower your grow room temperatures enough that you do not have to vent the grow room itself. Then you could add supplemental CO2 without having it be constantly removed by an exhaust fan. Even if one had to vent a few minutes out of each hour it would require FAR less CO2.
Some people might have the idea that I don't like CFLs. That is not the case. They definitely have their place. It only takes two or three small CFLs to support a mother plant in a small box, for example. Micro-grows - with their micro-yields - are excellent candidates for CFLs because most of them are only of a size to produce a couple ounces at best anyway and the lack of efficiency is not as large of a factor. A plant growing in a 30-gallon aluminum trash can could be supported by CFLs (but then again, a $69.99 self-contained 150-watt HPS (produces something like 16,000 lumens) fixture such as this Sun System Mini by our sponsor Suncoast Hydroponics would seem to be an excellent setup for very small grows where one would be using up to 300 watts worth of CFLs. Admittedly this type of setup has the ballast in the fixture, but with smaller lights and smaller grows this is again less of a factor (and the bulb is included in that price - $70 (plus shipping) for any new complete HPS setup isn't a bad price for someone looking to enter the indoor-gardening hobby and who wishes to start small, light, and cheap and the owner of Suncoast, Daniel, is a good guy - and you could say that your purchase would indirectly benefit 420Magazine by helping one of its sponsors).
CFLs are also a good way to start a plant's life when it is in the seedling stage and doesn't require large amounts of light. And if one only has a HPS instead of both HPS and MH lights, it is not a bad idea to supplement the HPS with ~6500K temperature CFLs - especially during the vegetative stage. Or you could look into a "fortified" HPS setup such as the great 430-watt HPS Planta-T or the like.
Perhaps the best use of CFL lighting to a gardener who is wishing to economize would be to change all of their home-lighting from old-fashioned incandescent bulbs to CFLs. I know someone that went with a nice Lumatek 400-watt HPS setup that did just that and their electric bill was about two dollars less (during flowering) than the same month from the previous year. But they have a wife and two children and their lights are often on. YMMV. If you ever have some kind of catastrophic failure with your HPS setup - it is recommended to keep either a new spare bulb or at least the previous used one handy just in case but most people don't have a spare ballast or it would be in service and not properly be called a spare, lol - ballast failures aren't common but they do happen... You could then run around collecting a bunch of your home's CFL bulbs and temporarily place them in the grow room. At the least it would prevent vegetating plants from going into flower while your ballast was being swapped under warranty.
But the best thing for you to do is to read and then decide for yourself. We have a lot of excellent journals here in their own forums. You can use the site's search function to search in a specific forum which would be handy to find CFL grows. The Completed Journals forum might be the best bet because you could see the journal from start to finish at any time. You could see how the person dealt with heat, if he/she ended up adding more lighting during the grow, etc. You can find a good journal with x amount of CFL watts and compare it to a good journal with the same amount of HPS wattage. Etc. We have a number of CFL-growers who've really pushed the efficiency envelope and who are getting decent yields (but at a cost on their electricity bill). However, we also have a number of HPS-growers who've done the same. And if it were my choice, I'd take the harvest from the latter garden as more product is... more product, lol.
In any event, welcome to the world of indoor growing!
MY 1000 watts of CFLs in the closet never got warm....much less HOT. I got 18 dried manicured ounces out of the closet with CFLs.
My buds:
My buds:
I did use two oscilating fans to move them around some but NO VENTING and NO HEAT!
I just shot the one lighting my bathroom and the IR thermometer read 159.5°F. But it's in a base-up position and probably 1½ years old, so it might be running a little hot.
Thats 504 grams, which sounds about right for the wattage and type of lighting - and a good grower.
My buds:
Look pretty good.
But... <COUGH>
Rosemn said:I did use two oscilating fans to move them around some but NO VENTING and NO HEAT!
Those two doors standing wide open comprise a larger vent than most people use, lol. There's just no fan involved.
GreenGoblin74
New Member
I just shot the one lighting my bathroom and the IR thermometer read 159.5°F. But it's in a base-up position and probably 1½ years old, so it might be running a little hot.
Thats 504 grams, which sounds about right for the wattage and type of lighting - and a good grower.
Look pretty good.
But... <COUGH>
Those two doors standing wide open comprise a larger vent than most people use, lol. There's just no fan involved.
Great grow set up.
