LED vs. HPS

[t420]

In some climates (my own) the lack of heat production is a problem, no matter what sort of light you have circulation is key, so there is little expense saved there, in fact without running a heater and maybe a dehumidifier I would have all sorts of trouble which kind of makes the power saved by the led negligible. So lack of heat production is not going to necessarily be a bonus to all!

I agree with your concerns on mh/hps safety, just another thing to get paranoid about while your waiting to harvest!

I would be interested to smoke a led grown bud, any other differences become null if the buds are better, size isn't necessarily the objective but quality, both if you can manage it!

[Racefan]

Originally Posted by t420

In some climates (my own) the lack of heat production is a problem, no matter what sort of light you have circulation is key, so there is little expense saved there, in fact without running a heater and maybe a dehumidifier I would have all sorts of trouble which kind of makes the power saved by the led negligible. So lack of heat production is not going to necessarily be a bonus to all!

I agree with your concerns on mh/hps safety, just another thing to get paranoid about while your waiting to harvest!

I would be interested to smoke a led grown bud, any other differences become null if the buds are better, size isn't necessarily the objective but quality, both if you can manage it!

I too would like to try a LED grown bud. unfortunately I haven't heard of anyone getting through a harvest using just them. All that I've seen required supplemental lighting from HID's or floros just to get a half assed crop. I like the single light grows on a light mover. less hazards and worries.

[Triconomics]

Ya climate makes a big difference. I can't even run a 600 watt lamp where I am without running a big energy draining air conditioner.

For circulation I am setting up 3 tents and using Y connectors hooked up to a carbon filter with 6 in. or 8 in. fan. So I will have a fan pushing air into 3 different tents and have another carbon filter covering the exit air outlet which will be set up the same with Y connectors for a single air outlet.

Air circulation isn't that expensive the air cooling needed from the air conditioner is what eats up all the money. (not in your case though)

So as you can see LED's are perfect for me. I could only grow in the winter if there weren't LED's.

But a smart thing to do is switch out as many other regular bulbs with LED's if you live in the house your growing in. (some just rent houses or whatever). LED's are expensive though again. It all depends on how much you want the man banging on your door or not. That's how I look at things so price means nothing to me if I can avoid instances like that.

[Triconomics]

Originally Posted by Racefan

I too would like to try a LED grown bud. unfortunately I haven't heard of anyone getting through a harvest using just them. All that I've seen required supplemental lighting from HID's or floros just to get a half assed crop. I like the single light grows on a light mover. less hazards and worries.

I am going to try using 3-4 120 watt LED's spread out for flowering.

If that doesn't work I will buy a 300 watt system with 5 watt bulbs instead of the 1 watt bulbs.

I haven't seen anyone try anything other than a Procyon 100 to flower cannabis with. 120 watts of LED's isn't enough for flowering.

A 300 watt LED system is about the equivalent to a 400-600 watt HPS system. Which run about $1500 dollars right now. It theoretically saves money by saving on the air conditioning required and not changing light bulbs. So if there is any value in LED's its in how long the bulbs "REALLY" last.

For a 600 watt HPS system over 5 years replacing the system after 3-4 years if you use it alot will cost $500 dollars for 2 600 watt HPS systems over the same life of a LED light system.

HPS over 6 years time will require 12 bulbs for a price of $960 dollars at a average price of $80 dollars. Some run even higher than $80 dollars. Especially if you try growing with blue MH lights which are standard lights on LED's.

LED=$1500 HPS= $500+$960= $1460

So we are at parity LED and HPS.

So the factor of climate here is the biggest factor concerning the economics of LED's. The savings on air conditioning and cooling can be large though. Also you can find deals on LED systems and thereby saving money. Also LED's if they last as long as 10 years @12 hours use per day which they "should". The economics rise even more in favor or LED's over the long term.

So the biggest case concerning the viability of LED's over HPS is weather or not LED light systems really last as long as 5 years and 10 years or weather they only last 3 years. And what climate you live in. Everything else is about the same. (For now)

[311stoner]

I read an article in Urban Garden magazine I believe that covered why LED's aren't up to par with HID's yet but now I can't find the damn thing....

[Techhead]

I built a system using 5 watt LED's, I'm getting 220 watts of power right at the LED's (not the system which uses about 240watts total). I'm getting better results than a 400 MH did.

[JonnyHempSeed]

Techhead-

I'd be very interested to hear how you put yours together...I've gotten 3-5W single LEDs for display cases and spotlights (and they are nuts), but never made a large series of them...I think that is where the real future of LED technology lies, but they must need some hefty heat sinking and resistors.

Kaiser-
I've seen some pictures of lovely Aussie grown LED bud in cycle and finished, that were grown start to finish under 1 single 12W wide-band screw mount light. One plant per light, max. Especially lights using 2-3W single diodes in the spread...these seem much more effective then a rectangle/ufo with 5x3 1W config. HPS or MH is probably better to flower with in this situation, because ideally you need 200+LED/W to really start to see nice buds, but the LED's will always be a good supplement lighting without adding any heat.

[Triconomics]

Just a note for LED's.

They do not germinate seeds well.

A CFL light is still needed for germination of seeds.

[Techhead]

In my opinion, those low power units are for showing off some house plants, nothing more. Building a unit with the high power LED's takes some skill. I am an electronics tech, and built my system from the ground up. I do want to increase my power output to the next level, and increase the bandwith both into the deep red 660nm, and a few in the ultra violet if I can find the right power and price. Point is, if you want results from an LED system you have to think in power. It would take at least 300 watts of the right LED's to start to come close to a 1000 watt HPS/MH combo light. I found the ultra bright high power LED's penetrate right to the bottom of a two foot canopie

[Be IRIE]

You guys are so funny... Why don't you start a thread on building it and then a journal on your grow.. I keep hearing about these results and everything from you guys but it is just talk... We have plenty of members that are DIY people and would probably be up for the challenge.. If we get enough interest perked maybe they will start a LED sub section... I do however find it humorous that when I was doing all my research before getting my Procyon that all the LED advocates said you had to have at least 90 watts, now you guys are saying at least 300, next it will be multiple 300's or 600's and so on. I love my LED light, and will always use it in conjunction with my hps or as a veg light ( summertime). I really wish you guys would put your brains together and create a helpful thread for people who want to build their lights and get over the big HPS/LED debate that will go around and around in circles forever..... We all have our opinions, lets just use them in a constructive way....

[Techhead]

Yes, more power, that's what it takes to run anything. From what I've been able to take from my resurch, and now that I've built one, the thinking I've come across is about 1/4, to 1/3 power for LED's to other types of normal lighting. If your happy with a 100 watt light of whatever type, then you can buy something in the 30/40 watt range. If you are trying to replace 1000 watts, like I am, then you should have a 300/400 watt LED setup. Now if you have that much power in LEDs, you should see real results.
To all those that think they can set up a set of power LEDs like I have I'd like to say a little about it. I built my power supply as a high voltage DC supply, and am running my LED's in three lines of 1 amp each. I will be adding at least one more line, or three lines of one watt units for the lesser colors, like deep red. The one thing to be carefull of is thermal run away. That's what happens when the power LED's get warmed up, they start to let more current go through. The warmer they get, the more current. My high voltage power supply also has a constant current regulator built in to keep it at the current I want to run. This way I don't need a lot of big power resistors to regulate the current. I am not now, or in the future going to tell people how to build such a power supply, there's just too big a chance somebody will burn down there house, or kill themselves. You can find everything you need to know to build a power supply in books.

[Techhead]

LED's do work, but you do have to get the power up. It seems most people are trying to get more than they are paying for. The wide spectrum LED panels, with some power behind them will work fine, the rule of thumb I've found is, you have to get about 1/4 to 1/3 of the same power you would get from other types of lighting. I've also found the power LED's penitrate the leaves very well, I'm not so sure about the setups with LED's that don't need heat sinking. So if you want to replace a 600 watt HPS, one third of that is 200 watts. But now you will have to look at what a panel like that cost over time.

[t420]

I'm with Be Irie on this one, this thread is a merry go round! Techhead this forum is for information exchange, if you are a tech then showing people how to build an led will do more to prevent death and house fires!

I think a new thread is in order: Led budz vs hps budz! Let's see some new journals, a month ago I was going to purchase an led but the information I have found mostly puts me off, mainly because of inconsistency! You can't argue with results! Peace.

[Techhead]

I agree, building your own isn't for everybody. The point I've been trying to make is this. LED's do work, but don't waste your money on the small units. Power is the issue. Just like stepping up the power from a 400 watt to a 600 watt gives results, so does stepping up the power of the LED's. That's the argument I've been trying to make clear. There are some units out there that do have power, but the cost is in the thousands, so you do have to commit yourself to it. Hope this helps clear up what I've been trying to say. Also to the home builders out there, don't waste your money, or time, on anything less than 1 watt LED's

[Seahawks]

I posted earlier in this thread that I was starting a 120W tri-band LED grow soon.