LED vs. HPS

[akaman]

all i know is the ufo led light system was touted as having the power of a 400watt or better hps light and that was at 90 watts. now i'm reading that it will take 300 watts of led power to actually get good results.its makin me crazy. i need solid answers not speculation. thats why i'm here among u pillars of information. i also agree with Be Irie and t420, lets do some realtime growing and then write a journal for the rest of us............please!

[Techhead]

Don't get bent on this, I'm working on replacing 1000 watts of light. As I've been saying, from what I've been able to untangle from all this is one little rule of thumb. It takes aproximatly 1/4 to 1/3 of the power with LED's. So if a UFO is putting out 90 watts, that's just about at the 1/4th of a 400 watt MH. Does that help?

[akaman]

high techhead ,if you remember, send me update on your build and thx for info

[123ABC]

Anybody know of anyone using 300W + of Led for a fair comparison?

[abia]

hello guy. just wanted to update my post.
Just breifly. I started some clones under two 300 watt led 80/10 ratio R/B in a 4' by 8' room.
I planted them on 03/05/09. I also planted some seed. The clones are starting to grow and i have plants that have sprouted and looking pretty good.
The seedlings kind of look like I have started them under a hps light. If you ever used hps from beginning to end you know what i mean.
the led s are about 1.5 ft above my plants and i have to used a heater to keep the room warm right now.
But in summary so far so good. As far as cost compared to hid lighting that still has to be seen. i got lucky and only paid 1200 for both of those 300 watt led. a lot of people are paying mor than that for just one 300 watt led.
i will continue posting as my grow continues.
thanks

[akaman]

Originally Posted by abia

hello guy. just wanted to update my post.
Just breifly. I started some clones under two 300 watt led 80/10 ratio R/B in a 4' by 8' room.
I planted them on 03/05/09. I also planted some seed. The clones are starting to grow and i have plants that have sprouted and looking pretty good.
The seedlings kind of look like I have started them under a hps light. If you ever used hps from beginning to end you know what i mean.
the led s are about 1.5 ft above my plants and i have to used a heater to keep the room warm right now.
But in summary so far so good. As far as cost compared to hid lighting that still has to be seen. i got lucky and only paid 1200 for both of those 300 watt led. a lot of people are paying mor than that for just one 300 watt led.
i will continue posting as my grow continues.
thanks

high, 123ABC meet abia

[kingstoned]

led is good and cheap use it if ya got it

[SouthernWeed]

I really wish you guys would put your brains together and create a helpful thread for people who want to build their lights and get over the big HPS/LED debate that will go around and around in circles forever..... We all have our opinions, lets just use them in a constructive way....

Amen Brother

[akaman]

Originally Posted by kingstoned

led is good and cheap use it if ya got it

if u got high wattage then you can actually grow from beginning to end. the only difference is you wont see much yield, some ,but not much. i think they're better for vegging than for flowering.

[TorturedSoul]

Originally Posted by kingstoned

led is good and cheap use it if ya got it

Hmm... Have you priced CREE LEDs lately?

Ok I just stumbled into this thread but I did read the entire thing. And I am only asking for the sake of learning as the good ones are way out of my budget and the cheap ones are CHEAP.

For those using LEDs, are you using fixtures that contain CREE LEDs? They are as far as I can tell the only really good ones.

Techhead, that question was for everyone but as you've built your own I am especially interested in reading your answer.

Also, I saw only one reference in this thread to the ProSource Illuminator SuperPro Series Tri-Band Spectrum Hybrid. What a mouthful lol - but at 700 watts and a price tag of $2700, I guess they might have felt it deserved a somewhat more illustrious light than "Biggest LED Yet". Has anyone gone to their site and read up on it? I can't remember exactly what the policy is on off-site product links but typing prosource 700 led into google will bring up their web site as the first result.

The "Tri-Band" in the name, incidentally, is not a blue spectrum and two different red ones, it is blue, red, and orange. Their homepage has an explanation of why they included the orange light and it reads like it makes sense - BUT they are in the business of selling you their product, so of course it is going to. Also, I am not a plant biologist, so what do I know? Next to nothing about this subject.

Although the cost is outrageous, this would seem to be close to something that I would compare with a 600 watt HPS. I would not use two 300s because I would wish to compare a "single" light source. As for the cost vs. cost, you could argue that back and forth, the cost of a 600 watt HPS with multiple bulb replacements PLUS the cost of the air conditioning needed over the course of a year PLUS the cost of the electricity needed to run the light and the climate control might come out somewhere in the same universe as the cost of the 700 watt LED PLUS the cost of the heater (yup, can't use one of these things to heat your grow room in the winter lmao) needed over the course of a year PLUS the cost of the electricity needed to run the light and the climate control.

I really don't have a clue whether it would compare or not. Unless the LED were to give me an immediate-replacement (72 hours max) warranty then I wouldn't automatically count it as being good for n number of hours/years anyway due to the fact that stuff happens, but that's just me.

And whether they are only making a buck or two or are raping everyone, the fact is that research(?) costs money, making products that have low enough sales initially to mean that their supplies costs a lot more than things bought by the million-part package, etc.

Basically, anyone that insists on being on the bleeding edge in ANY product market is going to pay the premium that people who decide to wait several years just isn't going to have to.

So as much as it pains me to say this... I can't really give much credence to comparisons that focus on cost (although I am still interested in reading about it). The cost of a developing product vs. the cost of one that has been more or less fully developed for years, even though they are both measured in the same dollars, pounds, golden foo-bird droppings, etc... really IS "apples to oranges."

I did see the "apples to oranges" phrase mentioned early in this thread. Comparing one light's harvest against another (if all other conditions including genetics were the same) would be an apples to apples in my book. THAT'S a proper experiment.

I also wanted to mention that other than someone posting a few pictures (Johnny Hempseed?), there have only been TWO actual grow journals referenced in this entire thread as far as I could see. One was Be Irie's, the other was Seahawks referencing one that is just getting started on another web site (Is this allowed? Why not have one here?) which is under a different user name but I will assume it is his.

Why doesn't everyone who claims to have some sort of growing experience with any of the various LEDs actually post a grow journal here? Not that ANY of you are telling tall tales - I tend to believe someone until they give me reason not to (which has repeatedly caused me problems, but if I ever get to the point where I do NOT trust my fellow man, what's the point?) - but there might well be some misremembered things, some slight over-assumption, etc. Not to mention that others can learn from your results and possibly even provide some useful advice for you.

Techhead, I'd really like to see a journal of one of your grows from seed (or cutting) to harvest since you've built your own LED setup and seem to use it exclusively. THAT would be interesting to see.

Hope I have not stuck my nose where it doesn't belong and I really hope I have given no offense. You guys are going places where I can't and I will continue to read along (lack of budget at present) and live vicariously through your postings.

TorturedSoul

PS By the way, what is the point of adding white LEDs to a grow light? Just to make the plants look better in digital pictures? No, I'm serious here; from back in my school dayz I (seem to) remember (- correct me if I am wrong -) that white light is just a "combination of all the colors under the rainbow" (well, not exactly but I don't have my thinking cap on right now lol, so I'll go with the white = addition of all colors & black = abscence of all colors analogy). So it would seem to me that a white light (be it LED, HPS, MH, burning phosphorous, etc.) would be rather inefficient in this application when it looks like the whole selling point is that these things provide ONLY the exact wavelengths that the plant uses - IOW, that they provide PARTS of a white light... So why then include white light on top of it? I would think that if the little bit I've read about the addition of the orange light is correct, that it would be much better in a "tri-band" LED setup. Thoughts?

[akaman]

torturedsoul now i no where you get your name

[Techhead]

Ok TorturedSoul, you asked a lot of questions, so first I'll start with the Cree LED thing. I did look at those, but went with Ledengin for a couple reasons. First thing was mounting, the Ledengin's could be purchased mounted on a heat sink star for easy mounting, but this was last year, and I think Cree has them mounted like that now. Then I looked at dollar per intensity, I looked at all of them when I did this, the small T500's and all. I found the best output per dollar seemed to be the 5 watt units even though they are not cheap.
As far as jurnaling everything, I'm still working on changes I see need making, so at this point it's too soon. Right now I have only just begun, I have 60 red at 630nm, and 18 blue at 465nm, but that's not 390 watts like it seems, but when the real power is figured out it's really only 215 watts. This still hasn't met the power I want to achieve, It was a little slow, but still I got a little better results than a few years back when I was only running a 400 MH. I over built my power supply so expanding was always in the picture, but the cost of the LED's had to be spaced out over time. So I do want to bring it up a lot, and my future plan is to add 34 deep red at 660nm, and 12 cool white.
This brings me to the last question I saw about why the white LED's. I've been reading a lot of things this last year about light spectrums, and plant needs, and I've come to some conclusions, right or wrong, this is only my theory, mostly based on things I've found. First let me tell you what a white LED is. It's not white, but mostly blue. They are still working on true white LED's, but right now they start with the blue LED concept, and doping, but have found ways to expand the frequency. I've looked at the chart of the white LED's and they have a very high spike at about 490nm, and balence them into white with a long range into the red regions to balance them to look more white. I think this addition will help fill all those little nitches a plant may still need. I kind of think of it like the nutriants a plant needs. Sure they need the big three, Nitregen and all, but they also need the little things like Copper. I think they need the little things in light as well, that's why the white should be in there. Does this help

[Techhead]

I'm sorry I looked into the white LED's again, the spike isn't at 490, but at 455nm for Chlorphyll a, 430nm, and b, 453nm as well as Bata-Carotene 450nm/480-485nm this will fill the bill I think. This is why the white LED's should be in there. If you want to see these spec's for yourself, as well as others go to mouser.com and put this part # into the search box 897-lz110cw05, then hit on the details button, this will bring up the page where you can look at all the LED's I used, and will use.

[TorturedSoul]

Hey Techhead, thanks for responding. Yeah, I too have often wondered about the worthiness of "spikes" vs. the spectrum.

A journal-in-progress would still be great. Can't speak for others (wouldn't want to) but I'd spend a lot more time reading one that included all your trials & tribulations then I would reading one in which you had everything figured out. Maybe because I tend to get ideas and decide to try different things myself and it has proven costly (and worse) a time or two lol. If, however, I got to read that you'd just had the same idea, and then a few weeks later read how it had bitten you, well... You would have probably just saved MY butt.

But that remains your decision.

Also, I read how you didn't wish to give directions on building a p/s for reasons of safety and stated that there are books available. That is true and again, it's your decision, but... Have you ever seen someone do something really stupid because they got a few books and halfway through decided that the warnings were probably just because of liability issues, that they didn't really NEED to follow them, etc. - whereas if ol' crazy Fred showed you how to build something and pointed out what NOT to do with the two remaining fingers on his hand you were much more likely to heed his advice? Just a thought lmao. Not that I've ever learned things the hard way or anything...

I'll come back to this thread and reread your posts (and others') and check out your link. Right now I must be suffering the same ill that PitViper is - my tiny little brain is hurting lol.

Thanks for the information, everyone!

[norcaliwood]

I don't know about these LED's. Most I've seen are leggy plants. But then I've never tried them myself. I'll stick with my hid's. But then we are creatures of habit. I hear alot of scary prices on these lights tho. This might help some future buyers. I get a price of 350$ delivered for a 150 watter. welthink Good luck with whatever you use. Just rememeber all these lights are back seat to good old dirt and sun. Good luck and stay down.