LED vs. HPS

[Techhead]

As far as a power supply for what I built, I'm running regulated voltage at just over 72volts from a 78 volt rail. I'll tell you this much, I started with a power amp used for music, and built it up from that, so first thing is to go to a used music store, or a pawn shop, find a power amplifier with at least double the wattage you wish to use. You have to go higher in wattage because these amps are for music, and not a constant high current usage, so the bigger the better. Next thing is to strip everything except the bridge rectifier, and the filter capacitors. (are you still with me) Then its time to find out just what the rail voltage will be. (do you have your meter handy) Now you will have to build a regulator because as you load up a raw power supply it will cause more ripple in the sorce, and bring the voltage down as the load is increased. You will need Zener diodes, and since you will be driving a lot of current I stepped up my current drivers from a TO-92 to a TO-220 to a TO-3 pre-driver to a set of TO-3 current drivers including current regulation resistors, and a bleedoff resistor as well. See I told you there's just no way to give you all the information to do this. You have to have a schematic, and know how to read it. It's actualy a simple power supply, but it's just a little bigger than what you may find in a schematic because most of them are for small projects, not 400 watt units. My power supply was tested at 7 amps for three hours, then 6 amps another 5 hours, then 5 amps for 24 hours. so 7 amps times 72 volts = 504 watts, but I think it can go higher, that's just what I tested it at.

[Chronic Don]

Originally Posted by BigSmokie

What if you use a 45w LED panel and 4 cfl's in a 2' by 2' by 4' grow box and just grow lowryders? Think that would work?

Why not go to your local farm supply store pick up a 150w hps light and add it to the center of your 2x2 sq. put your cfl's closer to each corner (to maintain at least an 8in distance to the hps bulb. I have a 32in x 32in set up with a 150w hps in the middlw and 4 42w cfls around it. I just set it up this week and notice my plants love it more then the origianl 3 cfl I was using in a 15in by 36in spot
LED is a low power bulb which means its light beams dont go as far or as strong. the more powerful the bulb the farther the light penetrates. the LED would work if they were under an inch away from the plant material, any further and the lose of light strenght will mean its gets starved for light.

search here for LED lights and read the forums set up just for them.

[TorturedSoul]

Originally Posted by Chronic Don

the LED would work if they were under an inch away from the plant material, any further and the lose of light strenght will mean its gets starved for light.

While I also question the seller's claims of great (2'?) penetration into a canopy - unless their canopies are a lot skimpier than the ones most strive for lol - I do believe I read someone's grow report that stated that they had to raise their LED due to issues. Whether it was actually too strong for the plants or if it was just to get better distribution (as opposed to a bunch of separate colored dots), I can't remember.

[Techhead]

I get great penetration, and I don't have my LED's more than about a foot and a half away, at least until they get really going. As far as leggy plants, the blues in the mix take care of that. This goes to what I've been saying all along. I don't know what those store bought LED systems are made with, but I can tell you this much. The high power LED's I'm using did penetrate, in fact, with the plants topping off around two feet tall, none of the bottom leaves looked even a little starved for light, and none of them dropped off. One last thing, the LED's are spred out and this makes a no shadow bath of light that gets to every part of every plant. I'm covering about a 4' x 4' area. I can't wait until this summer when I add the 34 deep red, and the 12 cool whites. My estimates for the total power at that time will be right aroung 350 watts at the LED's not counting any other power losses. The total power should be around 380 when losses are counted in.

[abia]

Hi again guys. Just an update. The 2 300 watt leds in a 8 by 4 area are really doing what they should do. Of course the clones are looking good. I have never cloned before so this is the first time cloneing. I am tickled by thier reaction to the led and my seedling are doing well also. I notice growth every day. I have only been at this for 16 days and i am somewhat impressed cannot wait to see what it will be like in 40 more days. I am going to start 12/12 then to see how well led can do for flowers. But until then i will continue to update regularly so everyone will know what leds can or cannot do. I hope they are the best thing for indoor growing that has ever come out. But only time will tell for me and whoever reads this posting.
Abia out.

[JonnyHempSeed]

Techhead-

Thanks for the info! You've gotten me busy on yet another project...
Oh, and 1st LED bud harvested yesterday, will follow with pictures/weight when cured- Nice and big!! The full set is on week 6 and doing amazingly well. Will post pictures of full set soon also

[Tead]

Howdy all

While my grow has not completed, I seem to be doing quite well on LED's.
I see allot of comments about the prices of the large LED systems. I don't understand why folks are looking at the most expensive beasts. I'm running 2 50watt LED's, and 3 13watt bulbs that I had initially tried. The 50watt panels were $130ish each and the 13's were $50 each.
Here's a quote from the supplier....
"Expensive L.E.D. UFO fixtures cost almost $600 and use 90 watts. Save yourself some serious cash and buy TWO of these panels, get 10 more watts of light and save about $400! "
The Prycon100 units are using 100watts for light (apparently another 25 for fans) and they cost 600 as well.
The panels I'm using are using 100watts total, and they only cost 260 total.

Anyway... my 2 cents.

Cheers


p.s. don't bother with the 13watt bulbs. While they're a nice form factor for a germination or what not, they're really cheaply build and the heat tends to degrade the glues used to hold them together over time.

[JonnyHempSeed]

Abia-

Good call on the cloning. I have never had a higher success rate with cloning and germination than under these LEDs. 100% clones survived, 95% healthy, non-runted seed germination from all the different started strains. I remember reading back several pages that these are not effective for germination....not true.

As for light penetration, things down to the base are still very healthy...and all of the newer, stretchier growth since upping the Wattage is starting to put on very nice, evenly spaced bud that all gets alot of light. Very dense buds so far, very high resin production (special thanks to grandma's molasses!). I still think 300W+ is the way to go for really comparable results organically, but 200W should be good for hydro.

[JonnyHempSeed]

Slowpuffer-

If you get this, sorry for not replying sooner...I don't have a ton of posts, and thusly can't PM that much. Email me at Freenorg5@gmail.com if you like.

Peace~

[Chronic Don]

any comments on the youtube video of a hid system next to a led system? I wonder why it shows led uneffective if you are getting good results.. Maybe one of you who get great results could make a timelapse video to show use who use other types of systems?
Please it would be something everyone would want to see.

[Tead]

Excellent Idea Chronic Don.This is my first Hydro grow, so I don't feel that my first run should be used for an example, but I'm planning on doing a nice Ice grow after this. When it gets going, I'll do a log and create time lapse vids.

[abia]

JUST WANTED TO UPDATE.
I AM VERY IMPRESSED. MY PLANTS ARE DOING QUITE WELL. I AM USING TWO 300 WATTERS IN A 4 X 8 ROOM WITH SUPPLEMENTAL CFLs.
I SEE VERY STRONG GROWTH EVERYDAY. AND THE LEAVES ARE HUGE. I AM GROWING BOTH CLONES AND SEEDLINGS. AND BOTH ARE DOING GREAT. PLANTED ON 03-05-09 NOW AT 03-27-09 DOUBLE TO TRIPLE GROWTH. BETTER THAN ANY HPS I HAVE EVER USED. CANNOT WAIT UNTIL 60 DAY S HAVE GONE BY TO START MY FLOWERING STAGE. I EXPECT BIG FLOWERS THAT WILL MATCH THE LEAVES.
BUT I WILL KEEP UPDATING AND HOPE THIS WILL LET EVERYONE WHO READS THESE THREADS A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF HOW LED WORK.
I WAS SKEPTICAL AND NOW I AM HOPFUL.

[norcaliwood]

Pic's wood be nice,of your grow. All this tech talk is for the birds as far as I an concerned. Most pic's I seen are leggy. I have entertained the idea of going with leds a couple times. I have a dude that sells 600 watters for 800+afew$. Sound like a good price? I can get 300 watts for 375$. Anyone who has a layman term for color patterns it wood be helpful. Iffing you could IM me I wood thank ya alot. In a way hearing NASA uses them sounds promising. I can only hope they will know their shit. Times things to good to be true are just that. Stay Down

[abia]

Wow. A 600 watter for a little over 800 is great but the two 300 watter for 375 is even better. I would do it if you can afford it. If you cannot could you tell me who and where and i will buy them.
I am absolutely sold on these lights. At least for vegging. I do not know about flower and bloom yet. I want to terminate

[abia]

SOME HOW I ENTERED MY POST EARLY. THIS IS A CONTINUE...........
BUT SO HERE AT THIS POINT I WANT TO TERMINATE. ONLY BECAUSE I AM GETTING PARANOID. SO I AM. BUT GUYS I AM SORRY FOR THIS BUT BETTER SAFE THAN SORRY.
BUT IN MY OPINION I THINK HI POWER LED GROW LIGHTS ARE WONDERFUL AS LONG AS THEY SUPPLEMENTED WITH CFL LIGHTS.
I ALSO AM GROWING OTHER FLOWERS WITH THEM AND THE LEAVES ARE BIGGER THE STALKS ARE STRONGER AND GROWTH IS IMPRESSIVE.
IF I WERE INTO THIS IN A BIG WAY I WOULD CERTAINLY USE LEDs.
MY LEDs ARE 8 TO 1. RED AND BLUE. WITH 5 24 WATT CFLs ( SUPPOSE TO EQUAL 100 WATT INCADESCENT)(1600 LUMENS EACH) FROM WALMART TO SUPPLEMENT LIGHT WAVE LENGTHS. IT HAS WORKED WONDERFULLY. AGAIN I DO NOT KNOW ABOUT FLOWERING AND WILL NOT GET THE OPPORTUNITY TO FIND OUT. BUT I WILL PLANT TOMATOES TO REPLACE MY CANNIBUS AND GROW FROM BEGINNING TO END. THAT WAY I CAN FIND OUT FOR MYSELF ABOUT FRUITING AND FLOWERING.
I DID TRY PANELS IN THE PAST. NOT WORTH A SHIT. BUT HI POWER LEDS WORK. AND WORK GREAT. BROAD LEAVES, STRONG STEM, AND FAST GROWTH.
I HOPE YOU GUYS HAVE BENEFITED FROM MY SHORT EXPERIENCE WITH THESE HI POWER LEDs . IN JUST THREE WEEKS CLONES WENT FROM NOTHING TO TRIPLE IN SIZE AND SEEDLINGS WENT FROM SEED TO A GOOD PLANT WORTH TRANSPLANTING.
THANKS TO THOSE WHO FOLLOWED MY POSTING AND I HOPE THIS INPUT WILL BENEFIT THOSE WHO USE IT.
THANKS AGAN
ABIA.