LED vs. HPS

[Chronic Don]

Ahhh I thought so.... LOL ROFLMAO
and now isn't 1 watt of LED supposed to replace 5 or 6 watts of HID? If it was on a 1 to 1 ratio it replaced like you suggest it would cost 20 times the hid, I believe that what he compared is a watt to equivelant watt grow.
But then there will always be bandwagon jumpers without an idea of what they talk of.
Can they every show anything grown to proper harvest that supports their comments? I doubt it.
Please mister please show me wrong show me your LED grow, and maybe show a comparison so that you can prove it wrong, please mister please.

[Be IRIE]

They are compared to 400's because that is what the manufactures say that the LEDS equal. so why wouldn't you compare the two?
I also don't think that anyone has argued that an HPS is as efficient as a LED, because we know it is not.
The HPS not only produced more but in a much shorter time, 14 days earlier then the LED...

[Tead]

Chronic and Be....
You both raise the same point. While your point is VERY valid, it's based on the predication that I believe the marketing spew from the manufacturers. The marketing machines behind the Ford Mustang would like me to believe that I'm sexy and charming if I use their product, but really.... I know I'd just be sad and pathetic (sorry Mustang owners).

Of course, having said that, I'd love to see the kind of results they talk about, I just don't believe that it's as good as they say. I'd like to see some real scientific data. What happens at 1/2 the wattage? How many LED watts/sq. meter is adequate? You get the idea.

I do like the grams/watts numbers and I feel that this would be proper way to evaluate the systems in future comparisons.

I hear and share the frustration in your posted words. I add my voice to those demanding answers and I, like you, am really tired of all the empty claims. Without some (at least rough) numbers that are not marketing based, we really can't evaluate anything.

Of course, actions are better than words, and I can't seem to get a grow to succeed. Hopefully, I can contribute to the body of actual data in the near future.

I think that puts me at 4 cents for the day.

cheers!

[Techhead]

I watched those vids, what's with comparing an 82watt LED to a 400 HPS, and what is the real power to the LED's, I'll bet it was more like 70watts after losses. That was less that 1/4th the power no matter how you look at it. How about the frequencies used? Just red/blue I'll bet. So to the guy with that little proto type vid. Step it up to the next level, get more color in there and get it up to about 164 watts (I used this # because that's two of what he had). I'm still asking the same question. If you are willing to pay to run 400 watts of HID, why are you trying to go so cheap on LED watts.

[TorturedSoul]

Originally Posted by Be IRIE

They are compared to 400's because that is what the manufactures say that the LEDS equal. so why wouldn't you compare the two?

Umm... Someone had five 26-watt CFLs vegging a couple plants. Their manufacturers say that is equal to 500 watts of incandescent. I'm thinking that those couple of plants wouldn't be very happy under 500 watts of incandescent bulbs though.

The CFL companies are pushing their product to folks that normally use incandescent bulbs in their homes/offices. So they lie I mean spin a little in their marketing.

The LED companies are pushing their product to folks that normally use MH/HPS bulbs in their closets, basements, attics, tents... So they lie I mean spin a little in their marketing.

One of the reasons I hate to see any kind of bulb advertised - or worse yet, called in a post or journal here - as ?###?-watt equivalent. Just say it like it IS and it won't confuse the newbies or have the pros chuckling.

So a 100-watt Procyon LED is a 100-watt... LED [EDIT: 125 watts - Thanks Be Irie BtW is that input or output? I've not even thought about electrical "losses"]. And a ProSource Illuminator SuperPro Hybrid 700w is a 700-watt LED. Of course it's also a $2699.00 one (lmfao 'till my cheeks hurt).

I wonder how the one I just typed with the fancy name and the sky-high price would do against a 600-watt HPS + a hundred watts of CFL?

No way I'm going to personally find out (no way I could). I'd have said the same thing about everyone else until I realized that there are people that pay a couple grand for a grow tent/cabinet. So maybe someone will eventually buy one and put up a journal.

I think it would be fair to compare grams/watt vs. grams/watt - straight out. Obviously one is going to cost a lot more than the other, but a grow tent is going to cost a lot more than two or three sheets of plywood and some framing lumber (and the plywood is sturdier lol). But my point is that some people will eventually decide that a given product at a given price is not too expensive. I think.

Originally Posted by tead

I just don't believe that it's as good as they say. I'd like to see some real scientific data. What happens at 1/2 the wattage? How many LED watts/sq. meter is adequate? You get the idea.

I do like the grams/watts numbers and I feel that this would be proper way to evaluate the systems in future comparisons.

Me either. Me too. And what about EQUAL wattage? I'd also like to know. Yup.

(LOL - didn't feel like breaking it up into separate quotes for short quotes/answers.)

Think CFLs are great - for what they do. And they're cheap. Think MH/HPS are even greater - for what they do. They cost more, but do more and for many it's worth the expense. I'm guessing that LEDS - of equal wattages - would possibly be even greater & do more. But oh man, $2700? Still I bet there's someone who has decided that the extra (whatever it's capable of doing) combined with the lessor heat (there's got to be some in 700 watts), savings on bulb replacements, and savings on A/C is worth it to him.

Maybe Bill Gates has a garden lol.

[Be IRIE]

the procyon is actually 125 watts...

[Tead]

Amen all... let's discuss standards for measuring the results. I propose watts / sq ft. / grams. Let's makes some graphs and try to see what kind of performance we're going to get.

I'd love to see some good grows with various lighting sources, and let's start collecting data.

I believe the Procyon uses 100 watts for the lights, and another 25 for the fans.

Cheers

[Tead]

Another thought... there are much cheaper options out there.
The lights from HTG run $2.66/watt, while the Procyon 100 is about $5.4/watt, and the "Gen 3" 90 watt UFO's are $4.44/watt.

cheers

[Be IRIE]

My Procyon won't be coming out of veg until next winter.. I just want to see some journals with the big guns in action. I am happy with mine, the reason I purchased it was for the veg room and it works fine there...

[Techhead]

I agree totaly with Be IRIE on this point. For my veg room I'm running only a 70 watt system to keep the mommies alive, and they really love it. I have also set up a second system for veging the young clones, and I have a clone box under 2 reds and one blue, even though they are called 5 watt led's they really run at 8.5 watts for the three of them, pluss the veg of the little clones is under another 50 watts, but that part of the system is only on a few weeks at a time when cloning and veging is going on. This replaced a 400MH, so there's a big savings without compromising productivity. As far as flowering under that little 100 watter Be is using, that's way too small, but way good for the little babies.
On a side note to Be, I was looking at the grow journal you did, man does that go on and on, and I didn't get to the end yet. Having said that, I came across this seed about 14 years ago that was supposed to have come from a G-13, and was crossed with some unkown. I'll tell you this, man is it good. I'll tell you something else, that plant can really take the nutrients, so don't hold back on it. In hydro world, the Black Domina will only take about 1200 to 1400 PPM of nutes, but the G-13 will take it up to 1800, but that's the only two types I have so that's all I can compare. I also seen you were using 1000 watts in a 400/600 setup. How did you think a little 100 watt LED in just the red/blue would hold it's own against that? To the manufactures of LED's out there, let's get real on the colors needed, and the power required. Then we can compare watt for watt, or watt for 1/3 watt at the very least.

[bgold]

Anyone considering the strain comparison? Indica will be bushier than Sativa, right? I guess this is one more piece of the puzzle when comparing apples to apples.

[ogkushman]

Hey some guy is selling SuperLED lights for 450 each instead of the 600 bucks the website LED Grow Lights - Plant Grow Lights offers them at.

[Be IRIE]

Tech, I have no interest in flowering with my LED.. I do not think it compares to just a 400 in flowering...That is just my thought, I only went a month in before I had to move it.. I use between 600 and 1000, but mostly just the 600 unless I have more then three plants going, then I will kick in the 400.... My G-13 took a lot of abuse, and I usually go pretty light on Nutrients..The next one I do I will see what it can take nutes wise... Once I see some positive results from the LEDS I will get right back on the band wagon. Keep up the good work tech.... I am learning a lot from you guys...

[ledmcbucks]

Great discussion guys. I hope someday LED's will be in everyones grow. I have the illuminator UFO in my grow room and the Illuminator Pro 300w in the flower room. I dont have any experience growing but from the pictures I have seen of plants grown under HPS there is a big diffrence. I have LED grow going now and I am a little dissapointed in the slow progress although the first plant I ever grew is looking good and almost ready to harvest. My plants appear to be streching even though I have had the light as close as a few inches from the 300 watter. I have a few plants I started at the same time two under the 90w led and 2 under a 2 foot flourecent growlight. The flourecent plants are looking better. I dont have the data on how far along they are right now or the tube wattage or type (Its nap time in my room) But I thought it was interesting a $400 something led is gettting beat by a 20 buck light system. I did choke when I bought the lights they cost over 2 g's delivered to my pals place. And the site I bought them from dosent even have the illuminator pro listed it has been replaced with a new light and bigger pricetag. But I am battling heat and noise in my room. Plus my electric bill is through the roof even before I began the grow. So I like the quite and minor heat they produce. And Im sure the saving on my electric bill will more the cover the price over the life of the light. Just my 2 cents worth and now days 2 cents aint worth much.

[Be IRIE]

Just keep that journal going LED, and you may want to back the LED off a ways. I did notice that when I got that close to my plants it almost halted growth. There seems to be a happy medium that I noticed and that was from 14-20" , and think I got my best growth ( for the LEDs) at around 16 inches... The one thing I did see with the LED is the potential, and I really do think they will dial it in sooner than later...