Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 29
Like Tree7Likes

Thread: Tincture: Alcohol and Glycerin

  1. #1
    New Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    15

    Tincture: Alcohol and Glycerin

    Science and Medical

    Jay R. Cavanaugh, Ph.D.
    AAMC, National Director

    Many patients who utilize and benefit from medical cannabis do not wish to smoke due to the perceived health hazards of smoking or for other personal reasons. These patients are in something of a bind. Smoking cannabis delivers the active cannabinoids within seconds. Medicine is absorbed in the lungs and goes directly to the brain and general circulation. The same effect can be achieved with a vaporizer, which is safer than smoking burning vegetable matter. Since the effects of inhaled cannabis are so quick, it is easy for patients to titrate their dose by simply waiting a minute or two in between puffs.

    Oral cannabis, such as our Better Bud Butter, is absorbed in a very different fashion from smoking or inhalation. The GI tract gradually absorbs Cannabinoids over the course of one to two hours. Medicine is processed first by the liver, which converts some cannabinoids such as delta nine to delta 11 version of THC. Orally delivered cannabis requires four to ten times the amount of the smoked version in order to achieve the same effect. Orally delivered cannabis can present a problem in achieving the required or desired dose level in any consistent fashion.

    Tincture is designed to address the problems of rapid medicine delivery and consistent dosing. Most tinctures are made to be used under the tongue or sublingually. English pharmaceutical companies are presently working on a cannabis extract "spray" that can be used under the tongue in a similar fashion. These sprays are not expected to be approved for use in the United States for years and will be very expensive. Absorption by the arterial blood supply under the tongue is completed in seconds. One trick is to not swallow the dose as, if swallowed, absorption will be in the GI tract. Many patients, though, add their tincture to a cup of tea or cranberry juice for easy delivery. When tincture is used in a beverage, absorption will be slower than if absorbed under the tongue. While tincture absorbed in an empty stomach is accomplished in minutes, conversion in the liver remains, as does the difficulty in titrating dose. Usually, a tincture dose is delivered by means of a medicine dropper or a teaspoon. A rule of thumb on dose is that patients receive benefit from 3-4 drops to a couple of full droppers depending upon the potency of the tincture and the patient’s own unique requirements among other factors.

    The methods listed below will detail two major methods of preparing tincture. While the methods are optimized for purity and potency, ultimately these will largely be determined by the purity and potency of the cannabis from which the tincture is made. Another item of note in regard to starting material for tincture is the patient or caregiver selection of strain. A rough rule of thumb is to select Indica dominant strains for cramping and muscle spasticity and Sativa dominant strains for pain relief. The reality, though, is often that the strain is unknown or not well characterized. Trial and error is usually required to acquire the appropriate strain and the proper dose level.

    General Rules:

    Tincture is an extraction of active cannabinoids from plant material. Cannabis contains many chemicals that can either upset the stomach or taste nasty. One of the goals of extraction is to secure the cannabinoids while leaving out as many of the terpenes and chlorophylls as possible. Both heat and light adversely effect cannabinoids and should be avoided or minimized. Tincture should be stored in airtight dark glass containers kept at room temperature or below. Avoid plastic containers. The ethanol in the tincture may solubilize some of the free vinyls in the plastic.
    Last edited by 420; 12-03-2008 at 03:34 PM.
    .



    .

    "I will have my money for my fine and a joint in the other hand."

    - Jean Chretien, Prime Minister of Canada, on marijuana decriminalization

  2. #2
    New Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    15

    Re: Tincture: Alcohol and Glycerin

    I found good recepies for three methods: Hot Extraction, the quickest extraction of cannaboids (20 minutes); suprisingly the Cold Extraction next (2-3 days); and the Warm Extraction longest (30-60 days).

    --

    Hot Extraction:

    This is a simple and efficient 4 Step process.

    Ingredients:
    1/8oz high quality cannabis
    2 oz Bacardi Rum – 151 proof


    Process Summary:

    1. Chop cannabis very fine (coffee grinder works great)

    2. Place in a shallow pan (pie pan with aluminum foil works great) and bake at 325F for 4-5 minutes.

    3. Remove from oven and place cannabis and place in 2 oz of rum (use a small wide mouth mason jar)

    4. Simmer in a water bath for 20 minutes. Maintain temperature of the rum/cannabis mixture between 150F – 165F.

    5. Strain the mixture and store.


    Dosage:
    One eyedropper is very nice. Two puts you in space. But you should self-titrate. Effects take about 1.5 hours to begin (at least in myself) and lasted for 5 hours (1 dropper) to 7-8 hours (2 droppers).


    Process details—references and rationalizations:
    1. Chop the cannabis—more surface area gives means a faster and more efficient extraction.

    2. Bake the cannabis.

    In whole-plant cannabis, THC content is expressed as THCA (tetrahydrocannabolic acid) prior to decarboxylation into THC, which takes place when cannabis is heated during cooking, and smoked or vaporized ingestion. THCA is a mild analgesic and anti-inflammatory but does not have good affinity with our CB1 receptors, so in order to make a THC-rich tincture that has many of the same therapeutic effects as smoked ingestion (including rapid absorption, quick relief and ease of self-titration), we must convert the THCA in the plant matter into THC prior to extracting it through an alcohol soak. (from Vancouver Island Compassion Society http://thevics.com/cannamist.htm)

    THC vaporizes at about 380F. We want to heat the cannabis to convert THCA to THC, but keep the temperature under 380F. That is why 325F is used. Between four and five minutes your oven (and house) will start to smell very strong. This is the time to remove the cannabis from the oven.

    Notice also that there is considerable misinformation regarding heating the cannabis. It is true that you don't have to heat it to extract both THC and THCA, but the amount of THC in whole plant preparations is relatively small compared to after decarboxylation of the THCA. So if you want to maximize the strength of your tincture you must heat the cannabis prior to extraction.

    3. Use the highest proof alcohol available. In my area this was Bacardi 151. The more alcohol the more efficient the extraction will be.

    4. Simmer the mixture.
    This is one of the areas that seems to be most debated. Many recipes call for placing the cannabis (unbaked of course) into the alcohol and waiting 2 – 6 weeks. The main concern with heating the alcohol is that it is “explosive” (not exactly true...it is however flammable).

    The purpose of the simmering is to heat the alcohol mixture to improve extraction rates and efficiencies. Heating during extraction increases the motion of the molecules (basic physics/chemistry) and drastically decreases extraction times. The boiling point of pure ethanol is 173F (78C). We will use the water bath to heat the rum/cannabis mixture to just below the boiling point of ethanol.

    Heating the alcohol mixture can be done very safely using a hot water bath. You will need an accurate candy or quick read thermometer. Place about 1 inch of water in a wide, vertical-edged pan (9” wide x 3” high). Bring the water to a low simmer. The rum/cannabis mixture should be in a small (1 pint) mason jar. Do NOT cover the jar.

    Put the thermometer into the mason jar and place into the simmering water bath. Bring the temperature of the rum/cannabis mixture to about 165F (I maintain it between 150F and 165F). You want the alcohol mixture to be just barely moving (not boiling, but showing active convection within the mixture). If the mixture starts to bubble too much, just turn down the water bath.

    You should have the oven fan on high. You will notice that any alcohol fumes are mixed with water vapor from the water bath and vented out the fan. This combined with the fact that you are trying not to boil the ethanol makes the process quite safe.

    5. Strain, titrate, and store.
    When you are finished with the extraction you will be left with about 1oz of green dragon tincture. Note that one ounce of the alcohol has evaporated.

    Now you should test your eyedropper. In my test 34 full droppers equaled one ounce of liquid (this is a little less than one gram of liquid per dropperful as 29g equals 1ounce).

    The liquid should be dark green and smell like cannabis.

    6. Dosage.
    Everybody is probably different. It takes me 1.5 hours to feel the effects of eating cannabis. Similarly this tincture also takes 1.5 hours to take effect.

    I had tried a tincture someone had made using the cold extraction method with the same amount of cannabis and found that 5 droppers did pretty much nothing.

    Using my Green Dragon technique I find that one dropper will bring effects on in 1.5 hours and last 5 hours with 1.5 hours of lingering aftereffects.

    Two droppers gave me a "spiritual dose" (as strong as any brownie I ever had). Effects lasted 7-8 hours with lingering effects for 2 more hours.

    This means that 1/8oz of good cannabis yields about 30-34 doses of tincture (1 dropperful is really all I need). And is much more pleasant than smoking (which really is bad for you and your lungs and the reason I've stopped smoking entirely).


    This link might be helpful. Metric Conversion: > http://www.worldwidemetric.com/metcal.htm <


    Enjoy and let me know of your success and/or questions.

    Master Wu
    __________________
    Alchemist
    .



    .

    "I will have my money for my fine and a joint in the other hand."

    - Jean Chretien, Prime Minister of Canada, on marijuana decriminalization

  3. #3
    New Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    15

    Re: Tincture: Alcohol and Glycerin

    Cold Method with Ethanol

    Making tincture cold preserves the integrity of cannabinoids. To be potent, this method requires starting material high in cannabinoid content such as flowers or kief made from trim and leaf. The material must be mold free and dry. Drying can be accomplished in the freezer (-4-10 degrees Celsius) or better yet by placing in a liquid proof bag into a dry ice/ethanol ice bath (-70 degrees Celsius). Once water has been removed then the surface area of the starting material requires expansion. This can be accomplished a number of ways but two ways stand out:
    Using flowers (bud)- Place dried buds in a coffee grinder and pulse until thoroughly ground but not powdered.

    Making kief- Rub dry trim and leaves over a silk screen. Collect the powder the comes through the screen. It should be a very pale green. "Kiefing" is an age old way of extracting trichomes from plant material.
    Whether kief or ground bud is used both should kept ice cold for this preparation. Similarly, the ethanol to be used should also be ice cold throughout the process.

    Selection of alcohol- ethanol or ethyl alcohol is the form of alcohol that can be used by humans. The proof listed on commercial alcohol refers to the percentage of ethanol that the beverage contains. The proof is twice the percentage, so 80 "proof" means that the mixture contains 40% ethanol. The higher the alcohol content used, the better the extraction will work. Ideally, 200 proof ethanol would be best except that ethanol cannot be distilled to this proof so benzene is used to remove the last vestiges of water. This makes "pure" ethanol poisonous.

    Many folks use "Everclear" which stands at 190 proof or 95% ethanol. Everclear has no taste. Apparently, Everclear is not available in all States. A close second choice is 151 proof rum. This is a light amber liquid that is 75% ethanol that has a sweet taste. One of our caregiver writers will use nothing but Korbel brandy because she likes the taste. Others use iced Russian vodka. These "normal" distilled spirits are 40% to 50% ethanol. Some patients find that the higher proofs ethanols like Everclear and 151 rum burn too much under the tongue. If burning is a concern consider a high quality 90-100 proof Vodka.

    Cold Extraction and purification- Use at least one ounce of starting material to each pint of ethanol. Place cold powdered kief or ground cannabis flowers together with ethanol in a glass quart-mixing jar. Close the jar tightly and vigorously shake for five minutes then return to the freezer. Continue to agitate the mixture every few hours with refreezing. Continue for a period of two to three days.

    Pour the cold mixture through a double thickness of sterile cheesecloth. Save the cheesecloth "ball" for topical uses or use the material to make bud butter once dried. The liquid collected through the cheesecloth should then be filtered twice through a paper coffee filter. Use gloves throughout the process, as it is necessary to squeeze the cheesecloth and coffee filters to facilitate the extraction. Without gloves some of the material will be absorbed on the skin.

    If Everclear is used the tincture will be pale green to golden. If 151 rum is used an amber tincture results. Dark green tinctures mean that excess plant material is present. This does not mean that the tincture will not be potent, just taste nasty. When Everclear is used, various flavor extracts may be added (vanilla, raspberry, etc.). Be careful to use only a few drop of flavor extract.

    Dr Jay
    .



    .

    "I will have my money for my fine and a joint in the other hand."

    - Jean Chretien, Prime Minister of Canada, on marijuana decriminalization

  4. #4
    New Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    15

    Re: Tincture: Alcohol and Glycerin

    Traditional or Warm Method

    The old fashioned (and effective) way to make tincture from trim, leaf or "shake" is to grind the plant material to expose surface area. A fine grind is not needed and will just make the tincture cloudy. A rough chop will do. Most folks can’t afford to use kief or bud for tincture but may have leaf handy. If so, this is the way to go. Use ethanol as described above in the same proportions. The key difference is that in this preparation the materials are kept warm (not hot). Light must be avoided.


    Place the ethanol and chopped cannabis in a large glass Mason jar. Shake at least once a day. Place the jar in a brown paper bag or otherwise shield the jar from light. Leave in a warm spot (near a window) for 30-60 days. The mixture will turn a very dark green. Strain as previously described through cheesecloth. Save the "shake ball" for topical applications.

    While this method produces a nasty tasting tincture, it is powerful. It may upset some fragile stomachs. It is recommended that Warm Tincture be used orally in cranberry juice or coffee with sugar. Keep the filtered tincture in light blocking glass jars or bottles in a cool dry place (refrigerator or freezer is fine). The shake ball should also be kept in the freezer. For topical applications, just take out the cold shake ball and apply a few drops of fresh tincture to the cloth then hold it on the affected area for a few minutes with gentle rubbing.

    Dr Jay
    .



    .

    "I will have my money for my fine and a joint in the other hand."

    - Jean Chretien, Prime Minister of Canada, on marijuana decriminalization

  5. #5
    New Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    15

    Re: Tincture: Alcohol and Glycerin

    Distilling Alcohol

    If you get into tinctures and eventually want to use more potent alcohol, without tracking down Everclear, you can distill regular vodka to have nearly as high an alcohol content as Everclear. Take a look at the Smartstill, like using a coffee maker.

    If you want to stay away from alcohol use: Glycerine-based Tincture


    If you have advice,other methods, or just stories please post - experience helps.

    me
    Last edited by 420; 12-30-2008 at 03:59 PM.
    .



    .

    "I will have my money for my fine and a joint in the other hand."

    - Jean Chretien, Prime Minister of Canada, on marijuana decriminalization

  6. #6
    New Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    15

    Re: Tincture: Alcohol and Glycerin

    Glycerine-based Tincture

    You need to use food grade U.S.P glycerine, this can be relatively hard to find inexpensively but a gallon lasts a LONG time.

    Glycerines have a shorter shelf life than alcohol based tinctures and while they can sit on the shelf I refrigerate mine. Vegetable glycerine has nearly no impact on blood sugar or insulin and is very low in calories (4.3 per gram). It's sweet taste makes the tincture more palatable than the alcohol based tincture and is a suitable substitute for those concerned with alcohol consumption.

    Add the amount of cannabis that you desire for potency. I added 6 oz of roughly trimmed (finger trimmed the leaves off) cannabis to 1 gallon of glycerine. For your personal preference add more cannabis or less depending on desired potency. I blend mine, using a coffee grinder, blender or if you are lucky enough to have a Vita Mix. Make sure there is no other product matter in whatever you use. I use a clean basting brush to clean out my Vita Mix when I am done powdering my cannabis.

    Place in a crockpot on low. Some crockpot's low settings are too high so you may not be able to use yours. A "Keep Warm" setting if you have it is the best choice. Too hot, and you are killing the properties you are trying to extract, you want the mixture to be as warm as possible without boiling, I left my tincture like this for 24 hours. I have heard people leaving the tincture from anywhere from 4-6 hours to 3 days. You can try the tincture at intervals to decide when you are done. REMEMBER that glycerine tincture retains heat VERY WELL, do not burn yourself!!

    If you do not have a crockpot you can place the herbs in a clear, sealed jar in a warm, sunny spot and accomplish the same thing over 4 weeks. Some people make their "sunshine tinctures" over 2 weeks. I do not feel that is long enough, especially in colder weather. Some leave them in the sun for up to 12 weeks. I have never seen a need to go that long myself. Shake each day to mix the herbs in.

    When ready to strain use cheesecloth and a strainer to extract the cannabis debris, the THC has been extracted and the tincture is ready to use. The best way to store is in a glass amber bottle. A good place to obtain a large bottle for the bulk of your tincture is a brewery store that has supplies to make wine or beer. I also obtained a few small amber bottles with eye droppers for convenience. It takes a lot longer to strain glycerine than it does alcohol, the tincture will drip when strained instead of flow.

    Dr Jay
    .



    .

    "I will have my money for my fine and a joint in the other hand."

    - Jean Chretien, Prime Minister of Canada, on marijuana decriminalization

  7. #7
    New Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    15

    Re: Tincture: Alcohol and Glycerin

    Herb Press

    something else that may make it a bit better would be using a herb press.

    it's that last little bit of tincture in the herbs that have the most concentration of the herb's compounds you want.


    Alishabree
    Last edited by MsRedEye; 01-12-2009 at 08:22 PM.
    .



    .

    "I will have my money for my fine and a joint in the other hand."

    - Jean Chretien, Prime Minister of Canada, on marijuana decriminalization

  8. #8
    New Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Miami
    Posts
    28

    Re: Tincture: Alcohol and Glycerin

    Wow that is amazing bro. Have you done any of these? I just bought everclear 190 proof and am thinking of trying it with vaped bud, but have never made a tincture. I have been successful and making cannaoil with vaped bud, but I am wondering how it would look and taste in a tincture form.

  9. #9
    New Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    15

    Re: Tincture: Alcohol and Glycerin

    Hey Buddha

    I've done cold and hot extractions using Navy Rum and Bacardi 151 proof. Tasted awful, I'm going to do a water cure on my next bud to see if it helps.

    I've had poor results but I had poor bud and inexperience. I'm going to pick up some chemistry test tubes and flasks before my next harvest and work on small amounts until I get the procedure down.

    I also want to pick up a Smart Still and distill tasteless vodka as close to 95% alcohol as I can get. We can't buy Everclear around here, they won't even order it in.

    I talked with Dr Jay on the OG about extractions, he told me one story about going to a medical marijuana seminar and aching all over. One of the Guys gave him a coffee with a couple drops of tincture, Doc said that he was floating for hours. He had the whole chemistry set up for distiliing and extracting, I was just getting into BHOE which was about as simple as could be and Doc's set up scared the shit out of me. Kept me away from tincture for awhile but it sounds so good every time I read about it.

    Must ... learn ... se ... crets!

    .

    bongsmilie
    .



    .

    "I will have my money for my fine and a joint in the other hand."

    - Jean Chretien, Prime Minister of Canada, on marijuana decriminalization

  10. #10
    New Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2

    Re: Tincture: Alcohol and Glycerin

    goals of extraction is to secure the cannabinoids while leaving out as many of the terpenes and chlorophylls as possible.
    But I like terpenes !!!
    That's why brownies don't get me there as qwk as a bong.

  11. #11
    New Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    2

    Re: Tincture: Alcohol and Glycerin

    have u seen the rick simpson videos on youtube i believe his method would be the best way to extract cannabinoids using iso alcahol what u r saying is that the concentrate from ur extraction methods should be green in colour i thought that would meen that it still has plant debris in it weres in the rick simpson videos the concentrate is brown wich seems more pure to me

  12. #12
    New Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    2

    Re: Tincture: Alcohol and Glycerin

    an also by crumbling the bud in a grinder u would be losing alot of the trichomes but it would also give more chance of getting plant debris in ur mix wich is probaly the reason it turns the tincture green

  13. #13
    New Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1

    Re: Tincture: Alcohol and Glycerin

    Well I can say this officially..I made the drops and tried it on a few different electronic cigarettes and finally found one that worked! Placed about 4 to 5 drops in a carrtidge I emptied out in a e-cigarette from ProSmoke and let me tell you....it worked great! Definitely had a sweet smell to it but almost flavorless and odorless and WORKED AWESOME.



    I tried a few other cigs but I dont think any of them had robust enough atmoizers to handle the VG. The e cig that finally worked was from Index of /



    VERY EXCITED this worked! Now I can smoke it anywhere as well as have my normal electronic cigarette if I want that. AWESOME!!!!!
    Tallady likes this.

  14. #14
    420 Member JonnyBtreed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    621

    Re: Tincture: Alcohol and Glycerin

    I just made some of this tincture last night. I used the Hot extraction method with about a quarter oz of vaped bud. For alcohol I used Bacardi 151 and I used 4 oz of alcohol. Simmered it down to two oz. Boy this stuff is potent. I took a teaspoon lat night and One early this morning and I've been lit all day...

    Awesome Post Hobbes...
    Tallady likes this.

  15. #15
    New Member wannaBhigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    35

    Re: Tincture: Alcohol and Glycerin

    Quote Originally Posted by JonnyBtreed View Post
    I just made some of this tincture last night. I used the Hot extraction method with about a quarter oz of vaped bud. For alcohol I used Bacardi 151 and I used 4 oz of alcohol. Simmered it down to two oz. Boy this stuff is potent. I took a teaspoon lat night and One early this morning and I've been lit all day...

    Awesome Post Hobbes...
    Just how vaped was that bud you used ? cause some people's "Done" when it comes to vaped bud varies from person to person as you probably know
    LOL old post i know but i was wondering about this use of vaped stuff so i had to ask
    Last edited by wannaBhigh; 04-22-2010 at 05:32 PM. Reason: Looked at the date

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast