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Thread: How To - The SCROG Method

  1. #1
    420 Member gairbud's Avatar
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    How To - The SCROG Method

    The Scrog Method
    SCROG or SCREEN OF GREEN is one of the most productive and easiest ways to grow indoors when the number of plants matter according to local laws. Now let's not get this confused with the Sea of green method. SOG involves no training nor does it have one item a SCROG always has. A screen in most cases I have a screen to tie up bud weight even for SOG. SCROG has been around for many years. Before HID's were introduces many used floro's with this method with great success.
    Now let's talk about the SCROG for a little bit. What is a SCROG? What is SCReen Of Green? Well, it is just that. A screen is the main character of SCROG. It is usually made of wire or something sturdy enough to hold back the growing canopy. This wire should have some holes in it about 2x2 inches minimum to 4x4 inches in size so that the plant mater can easily grow up through the wire and be supported by it. The wire is secured between the grow medium and the lamp at a distance determined by the size of your lamp , strain and stretch of your strain. We will get into that later. The plants grow through the screen about 3-4 inches and then are pulled back under and spread out where YOU want them to grow.
    Getting Started
    This is the hard part. Getting started ,This isn't rocket science. If you've already got an area where you established plants growing you are halfway there.
    The SCREEN

    Remember at least 2x2 inch squares 4x4 is what I recommend [concrete wire]. You can use chicken wire as well or even some tightly strung rope but I would suggest wire. You need something strong to support the buds and hold back the canopy growth. The screen needs to be cut to size. The size of the screen is determined by the size of your lamp or growing area. Remember that to get the good bud formation you want from 50 watts per square foot so your screen size should not exceed that. Check the examples below.
    150hps screen size 1.75ft x 1.75ft
    250hps screen size 2.25ft x 2.25ft
    400hps screen size 2.91ft x 2.75ft
    600hps screen size 3.45ft x 3.45ft
    1000hps screen size 4.4ft x 4.5ft

    If your screen exceeds the 50wpsf[watts per square foot] . That's perfectly okay. Just don't over do it. Now once you've determined the size of your screen and cut it to size. Situate it over your grow area and secure it into place. Just a few screws will hold it in place. Your mounting a screen. You need to figure out where to set the screen. First, a few questions to ask. Is your lamp air cooled and what size is your lamp? These two questions determine how close you can get to your canopy. This is very important stuff. The closer you get the better off you are my screen is modular and comes apart easily. If you do not have air cooled lamps then a simple fan blowing between the canopy and the lamp should do the trick. Okay, now let's set that screen. Here's some examples of screen settings for hps's. These are not exact settings. They are just a baseline idea. If you can get your lamp closer. Good for you. If you can't. That's okay too. Don't worry. If you've got the right watts per footage they will produce.
    150hps 10-12 inches
    250hps 12-15 inches
    400hps 16-20 inches
    600hps 20+
    1000hps 24+

    Your Plants
    How Many Will I Need Under The Screen?. I go with as few plants as I can whenever possible. my space is 3x3ft. That's 9 sqft. 9 to 25 plants can be done in that space. So, the rule does not always need to be followed. if you use clones from a flowering plant[rejuve them] it will have plenty of branches that will veg thru the screen.
    Spacing Let's talk about the spacing between the plant medium and the screen. This space [dead space] will need to be large enough to allow you room to manipulate your plants during the training phase. I usually use around 8 to 12 inches. Some people use more/less. 12 [indica] seems to be just enough for me but when working in a 3x3ft space it is still a tight space I have modular system and can go up to 22 inches [sativa].
    What Is The Best Strain To Grow In A SCROG? Most any plant strain can be grown without much difficulty using a SCROG. The secret is in the screen. Some strains require more training than others but that is the only difference. Heavy yield Indica's are excellent SCROG candidates but the unruly sativa can really shine with proper training and timing.
    Hydro or Soil?
    doesn't really matter.
    So, how are you going to do this SCROG? Is it going to bubble , drip flood and drain, flow or just sit there? Here's some things you may consider before your plants get tangled up in the screen. I use a recirculation drip system to a 3x3 pan that drains free flow to the reservoir , and my light cover a 4x4 area.
    Hydro: No real problem here. if you do a double reservoir[one higher than the other for flushing].or a drain hose with valves to a bucket can serve the same purpose.
    Soil: Soil grows and SCROG are a wonderful thing. Organic buds rule. One problem I ran into when scroging with soil was the flushing of the medium at the end of the grow. Well, with the plants tangled in the screen. One cannot just transport to the sink and flush. My soil buckets drain into a pan that free flows to the reservoir. Then I have to drain and clean the reservoir. Takes a while but it works.
    Okay , you just did something that will double to triple your yield The screen is set. Let's take a look at what's going to happen when plants start to grow through the screen.
    Managing the Scrog Grow
    A wire screen has invaded your grow space wow. and it looks weird in there. Maybe you even have a few inches growth through the screen. the beauty of SCROG growing starts.
    Vegging: Here is where allot of people make mistakes in less you did flower clones. They get in a fired up hurry and get confused somehow. Flip over to 12/12 way to soon and wonder why their screen never filled up using reg clones. At that point the screen is nothing more than a support system for the plant. Normally one would veg a plant till the screen is 70-80 percent full before switching over to the flowering cycle. Having knowledge of how much your strain stretches is helpful when determining when to switch to flowering. Timing has allot to do with SCROG.
    Pulling It Back Through:

    So you've got some growth through the screen. Should have about 4-6 inches . Reach under the screen and gently pull that branch back under the screen and place it where you want it to be. Even if it takes tying it in place with the plastic twisty ties ect. Now I could really get technical.[but wont] Just get the growth under the screen first. during the next 2 weeks. You will see were to guide the new growth to best fill the screen. Every day you will be pulling and training them for awhile.

    Training:

    This can seem brutal to some. intense training is .It will stress the shit out of them the whole cycle. Training branches and pulling it back through a section or tying them down or in place. Try to situate your main branches towards the empty spaces of your screen. They will branch out . Use some uniformity to your laying out of the branches. Crisscross/ zigzag trellis ect. whatever you use. Remember there are going to be allot more branching when flowering kicks in high gear. So allow some room for that as well. Lesser buds that are now exposed to more light are then encouraged to grow upwards toward the screen through some leaf trimming you may need to trim as you go to give light only where needed. An often debated subject but one I feel that is useful in the SCROG method only trim if you have to.

    Leaf Trimming: Now we need to chat about a touchy subject. Leaf trimming. Like I said above. SCROG isn't natural for cannabis. Crammed in such a small area with all those leaves. Well, something's got to give and it's not going to be bud. Here's my rule on trimming. If the leaf is in the way of light for a bud site. Then it needs to be removed. Sometimes I tuck the leaf instead of removing it. Now, when do I do this? Usually when I do a training session. Right afterwards. This trims away leaves and allows the new sites to get light. You will be surprised at how fast they will respond. Use good judgment when trimming. Too much is not a good thing here. Trimming continues into flowering ending during the later stages of flowering. I have found it not to be harmful at all to remove large fan leaves from buds during flowering ,If they are blocking light to other bud sites nearby. It's all about light penetration and bud sites in a SCROG. I do not remove or trim leaf that is not blocking a bud site.

    Timing: CRITICAL when it comes to a SCROG grow. You must be paying attention to the progress of your grow in order to know when to induce flowering. Knowing what strain you are dealing with and what the growing characteristics of the plant are is PARAMOUNT when it comes to timing. I can't stress the importance of having a good clone base for this purpose. As mentioned above if you induce flowering to early. You will have allot less of a yield. However, if one was to wait too long. The same can happen as well. An over crowed canopy is just as much a mess. An out of control SCROG is just that. A mess. Not something you want to deal with. Remember, the plants you start to flower are probably going to double in size. Stand back and get a visual picture of that in your head. Ask yourself some questions. If I start flowering now. Can I visualize how big they will get? Do I have enough veggative growth to start flowering? Do I have too much? Is it time to start flowering? don't worry. if you start flowering when your SCROG sites have branches in them perfect time.
    During Flowering period
    The growth from the stretch is starting to show about 4 to 10 days. You get in there and pull all those new shoots back under your screen and put them where they need to be. A few more days pass. More growth. However when doing this method keep an eye out for mold and try to have as much air flow between the buds as possible.
    Clones/Seed Grows: Here's an interesting topic that is sure to generate a few questions. I suggest clones for SCROG growing over seed any day of the year. Why? With clones you usually already know the characteristics of the plant and how it will perform and I prefer flower clones to veggie clones cause they have many branches to scrog with. With seed its usually a guessing game as to which phenos your going to get unless they are true stable seed. Plus with seed you don't know the sex yet. Ever tried untangling a male from a screen? don't worry as I cut them in place and pull them thru or let them die there, Not something I would suggest doing. Anyways, if you grow from seed. Be sure you have cloned the lot and know who your girls are first before going under the screen. why I have a modular screen.
    Damage Control: When you move branches around , bend and train them , sometimes ya break one .. It's not the end of the world . Cannabis is an amazing plant that can recover from allot of damage naturally without help from humans but in this case ya want to help if ya can. First aid for the injured cannabis plant is simple. Just support her wound and leave her alone. She will take care of it on her own. Unless you break her completely in half she can be saved usually. You can splint the wound or support it with some heavy gauge wire around the stem. If the break is not that bad and the branch can somewhat support itself. Leave it alone. In all cases. A knot will form at the break and most times an explosion of growth will happen above the damaged area. At times even new growth sometimes sprouts from the knot formed ,survival of the species.

    Flowering Cycle continued: Once a few trimmings , training ect are done and all is set in place flowering in a SCROG is pretty uneventful. time to start thinning out your undergrowth. I take clones around 30 days 12/12. I clean out the undergrowth when the buds are forming.
    Undergrowth: I mentioned it above but thought I should mention it again. The undergrowth is not that big of an issue here. It's an area that should be kept clear of dead leaves and you should also ensure that proper ventilation can get through the canopy via the undergrowth. This is an area that is dim and often humid. Some people have mentioned putting a light down there I use a reflective mulch and uvb lighting to kill molds. It is a good idea to clear out your undergrowth as your SCROG takes shape and you have taken the clones that you need for the next grow. Trim all remaining sprouts left on the stems and any other undergrowth. Now let's not get to crazy here. Leave a little growth. Use some common sense here. Take out the sites you know are not going to make it to maturity. This will help the plant direct more energy towards the larger buds instead of wasting energy on the smaller ones.

    Ventilation: Here's an issue that cannot be overlooked. Once a SCROG has been established it is a leafy sight to behold. Air circulation becomes critical as the buds begin to form and things start to get packed in the box. 24hr air movement is suggested 7 days a week. Better safe than sorry. Mold sucks.

    Even Canopy:

    Maybe I should not put it in those words. Your canopy does not have to be perfectly even. Just close. The idea behind this is even light distribution. We are looking for a field of buds here not a forest like in SOG. If a dominate bud is allowed to overtake the canopy. It is defeating the purpose of the SCROG. Tame that bitch. Bring her down to size with the rest. You want a somewhat even field of buds to deal with. Not a forest of untamed trees. The even canopy is easy to accomplish if you have been following the steps outlined above.
    Tricky Tip: Occasionally you will have a stretcher that decides that she wants more light than the rest of her friends. This often happens when the branches are competing for light. If one gets out of hand there is a simple solution to taming her back into the fold of the others and possibly giving her a burst of growth. Reach under the screen and find her stem. Half way up her stem start to pull her back through the canopy till she is even with the rest. Now where she is bent. Crush her at the bend with your fingers. Don't smash it in half. Just crush the stem so as it would not be able to support itself if it were to stand alone. As mentioned above. It will heal with vigor and you have solved your canopy problem. the screen will hold her up.
    The Productive SCROG
    This is by far one of the best methods to grow a crop second only to 12/12 seed to harvest grows. SCROG is best when you have restrictions in the number of plants you can grow. if you have no such restrictions then 12/12 from seed is the best. This is a compilation of many contributors. ALL THE PICS ARE MINE. AND GROW IS FROM SEED.
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  2. #2
    420 Member Muttt's Avatar
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    re: How To - The SCROG Method

    I did a scrog in my first grow journal. Click on the link in my signature block.
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  3. #3
    420 Member elious's Avatar
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    re: How To - The SCROG Method

    His is AWESOME man!!! I want to personally thank for this. Like and plus rep from me!!
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    http://www.420magazine.com/forums/jo...cond-wind.html


    Legal notice and disclaimer: All posts here in are fictitious and should be taken as such. All photos and images are sourced from external sources and are not my own. I have no knowledge of any illegal or legal growing of any controlled substances under any local, state, or federal law. With this disclaimer I expect that all my rights under the United States of America will not be infringed upon by any governing as I do not consent to giving up these rights at any time. I will continue to reserve my right to privacy, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

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    re: How To - The SCROG Method

    i dont get it.. your giving numbers for HPS on a SCROG but in the pictures you have LED and CFL... im confused.. how can you give a testimonial to HPS but you use CFL and LED?? theres too many factors with this.. for example i use a XXL hood with a 1000w HPS and i can light a canopy of 7x7 at around 9 inches and a 4x4 canopy with a height of 6-8 inches with a 600 HPS.. where do you get your numbers from is the real question..
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    re: How To - The SCROG Method

    Epic post. + reps! Thx for posting.

    Jonny
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  6. #6
    420 Member gairbud's Avatar
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    re: How To - The SCROG Method

    i checked yours out awhile back and very impresive. yes you are right about their being lots of scrog examples out their i was only wanting to push that grow method/technique some more cause if space, number of plants or larger yeilds are a concern and your not a 12/12 beleiver then there is no better way to acomplish the above desired results. your a pro at this brother mutt. you know your plant.

  7. #7
    420 Member gairbud's Avatar
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    re: How To - The SCROG Method

    their are 2 150watters in the pic . ill post another pic. but i have done 4000watt grow rooms, yes 4 1000's hid hps ect. and it costs alot of electricity. you can get more light for less electric running 2 600 or 3 to 4 250 with way better coverage area. and i can beat any grow in veg useing only t5 lights only and switch to led flouresents for flower and yeild 40% more then 1000w lights everytime. i have proven this so many times. a combo lighting system works best and their are many ways to do that. i am not disrespecting you as here in the 420 info availble to you all over this site is prove enough if you read alot more of the info availble. but i do apreciate your imput . so thanks for that. please study some more all the info here in 420 it took me over 2 years to read all the info here as a guest before i joined 420. and i have grown over 200 grows the past 3 years experimaenting with all kinds of systems and it would take me months to post all the logs and journals i have done if i worked 10 hr days to do it . so i just figured it was easyer to do the a.b.c. grow from build the system to smokeable buds. that grow "the a.b.c. of this new grow" shares and will show , teach, and help others to learn many known methods and techniques.
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  8. #8
    420 Member gairbud's Avatar
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    re: How To - The SCROG Method

    i will post other pics with less comments as the info is already above . like adding the small fans to the undergrowth and the uv to the under growth and the final reflectives for max light useage. both for airflow, max lighting and biological controll of harmfulls. they still in training stage so not ready for that part of the program. you can see the entire grow in progress "the a.b.c. of this new grow" by gairbud if any one would like to follow along; and all comments are welcome. THIS IS AN INVITE. to all.

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    re: How To - The SCROG Method

    A very informative article, many thanks! I had an old baby gate that the dog had chewed on the wood & I was going to throw it out; but I took it apart & wondered if the two panels would work for a scrog. The diamond shaped lattice inside is plastic; probably 2x2inches. Thanks, Colleenz

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    420 Member TanR's Avatar
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    re: How To - The SCROG Method

    Quote Originally Posted by colleenz View Post
    A very informative article, many thanks! I had an old baby gate that the dog had chewed on the wood & I was going to throw it out; but I took it apart & wondered if the two panels would work for a scrog. The diamond shaped lattice inside is plastic; probably 2x2inches. Thanks, Colleenz
    Hi Colleenz,

    Welcome to 420 Magazine! Yes, the diamond shaped lattice of a baby gate would be perfect for a SCROG!

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    re: How To - The SCROG Method

    Many thanks for your reply. I've been studying & reading for weeks. Have just ordered some coco coir pebbles. They are for the scrog, which will be purple haze, tangerine dream & dance world. I hope I'm not getting in over my head. I have organic soil grow mix that I'm using for the auto's that I ordered when I didn't really know what I was doing. I figure they will be good to practice on. Cheers, C

  12. #12
    420 Member gairbud's Avatar
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    re: How To - The SCROG Method

    THIS IS WHITE GOLD IN SCROG. CLONES WERE STARTED 8.28.13 AND PIC WAS 9.20.13

    THEY WERE FLIPPED 9.13.13
    36CLONES IN 3X3 TRAY 1000W LUMITEX DIGI BALAST. FLOOD AND DRAIN RECIRCULATION SYSTEM WITH ONLY BASIC FERTS/NUTES FLORA NOVA LINE BY GH.

  13. #13
    420 Member gairbud's Avatar
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    re: How To - The SCROG Method

    The best mix for soil is
    4 parts of any cheep forest compost from home depot or lowes.
    1 part hydrolite[silica glass ]
    1 part peat moss [you need to sterilize] or coco.
    Add earth worms.
    Use nutes or ferts that are organic at 1/2 recomended 4 week INTO grow. Only need to use nutes every other water resivoiur change.worms poop out high concentrated plant friendly nutes when eating.
    Keep ph at 6.8 no higher then 7.0 or lower then 6.5.
    Ph shock and ph nute shock happens when adjusting ph more then 0.5 so be careful. Many growers think nute condition lock out or too much when 90% of the time it is a ph lock condition with the nutes and not over/ under. It is easy to fix under nute conditions and hard to fix over nute conditions. Were talking about the plants root system. Flushes are a waste of time and money. If plants need more food you feed them. If they have too much, root damage is already occurring. Can use a foliar spray like floralicious plus[by general hydroponics] at 1/10 strength to over come soil imbalance. While the plant will adjust to its conditions and recover.
    Less is more .
    And never be in a hurry.
    Most growers miss diagnose the plant. And end up in more trouble. And bud enhancers and juicers that force plants to fill and ripe early are the main cause of hermaphrodites. It is not a lighting issue which most believe.
    Remember the industry wants to sell you something.
    A basic formula is all ya need.
    Keep it simple and wait.
    Lighting does everything. Full spectrum with some uvb [uvb in the last 4weeks gives fucking awesome results] is the key to happy plants. And dont play rock,hip ect. Around them. They like mozart and natural sounds.
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    Re: How To - The SCROG Method

    Ok my first grow is about to be under way. I'm getting a rappers delight clone and an ak 47 clone and I have another unknown strain and I want to do a scrog grow. I have a 4x4 tent with a air cooled hood. How many plants would be best to use for the most yield

  15. #15
    420 Member Dantes Monkey's Avatar
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    Re: How To - The SCROG Method

    Quote Originally Posted by delightgro View Post
    Ok my first grow is about to be under way. I'm getting a rappers delight clone and an ak 47 clone and I have another unknown strain and I want to do a scrog grow. I have a 4x4 tent with a air cooled hood. How many plants would be best to use for the most yield
    With 16 SqFt, I'd say you can go anywhere from 4-16 plants. I guess it really depends on how long you want to veg.

    Less plants = Longer Veg Time
    More plants = Shorter Veg Time

    I'm currently getting my scrog grow up and running and will be doing 4 plants per 3x3 tent which is just over 2sqft/plant. I built my screen right into the frame of my tent, so the screen takes up the entire area. Check out the link in my sig if you wanna see how I did it.

    Good Luck with your Grow!

    -Monkey