First attempt having trouble

[razer]

hey hey everyone. This is my first attempt at growing i went hydo.
lighting is- 128watts 6500k- 10800 lumens
128watts 3000k- 11200 lumens
150watts MH - roughly 9000-13000 lumens
lighting 24 hrs on ohh and they get over head light as well and full side light
feed between 6am-10am-2pm-6pm-10pm 15min each time. I just upped the feedings cause the plants were wilting alot.

water is filtered r.o.

food is DYNA-GRO 7-9-5
CAL-MAG 2-0-0

ph- 5.6-6.1 range

temp 83F, ish

They are at day 37 yes i know they are a bit small but this is my first go and i had a few problems along they way had to bareroot transplant like 3 weeks into the grow had to get them out of soil decided to go hydo, then i kept them in the starter plugs to long stunting growth, I used tap water up till 4-5 days ago when i scrubbed the system clean and refilled it with r.o. water, also had some ph problems in the start. Ill post some picture first an over head view then a look at the body they will be numbered 1-12 please help me out here. I originally thought because i used some hard water that cause nute lock out so i added cal-mag and better water but still cant fix the problem let me know what you think

1 -mild tip burn and yellowing between leaf veins

2 -light colored leaf/discolored, heavy branch loss 4 levels so far

3 -Possible over/under watered, lower-mid tip burn moderate, top leaf dark veins

4 -top leafs discolored/dark veins, lower tip burn, 2 branch loss bottom

5 -middle to top dark veins, lower tip burn and always droopy

6 -really stunted, lost most lower branching, withered, tip burn, really had high hope for this one...

7 -moderate burn low to middle leafs

8 -droopy and mild leaf yellowing at the outer edges

9 -dark veins and heavy leaf discoloration, burn

10 -a little droopy on the sides, light burn

11 -always droopy over or under watered and lower burn

12 -she is the best i have standing strong and tall almost twice the height of the others light tip burn and the lower end though

1 and 12 are my strongest. I hope im not asking to much for the help here I just cant seem to get my finger on it and get it fixed. I know the over or under watered part has gotta sound strange but i have tried both more and less water for 48 hrs to see the difference and the one with over or under watering dont seem to change much but the other do. remember i just change to R.O. water from tap water 4-5 days ago i know i know tap sucks lesson learned there, also added the cal mag 4-5 days ago not sure how long before i am supposed to see results from it though. and they are all in the same system so i dont know why some do good and the others not so good.

Thank you all.

i see more info is requested
strain - no clue bag seed
in veg day 37
indoor
Reservoir 16 gal mid 70f
air cooled and only 7-8 sq ft
room measures 24in X 43in
dont have ppm as of now cant afford it yet
no pest

 

[jimburke]

how close are your lights?

 

[razer]

not really close like 24-28 inches away i know it will lead to stretching but that does not bother me to much it better than over heating them.

 

[ComoradeBudds]

razer it looks like the palants are too hot.

 

[razer]

Im not sure how they would be to hot but im willing to turn off half the lights for a few days to see if they improve. This is so aggravating I just plucked a few more dead lower branches from like 4 different plants. Wish I could figure this out before I lose them all.

 

[jimburke]

if you can, move the lights dont turn them off you want all that color spectrum. or slide your plants to the side . when they are older they can take more. put your hand under lights if you can keep it there for 5-10 minutes its ok. young plants .need spectrum more than luminums. also try for 75f temp with a fan the fan is very ,very important.i've made every stupid mistake you can make,and i keep inventing new ones.i do this for a living and try to make at least one new one every day. jim burke p.s.you can also buy a dimmer switch outlet if your in a closet.

 

[jimburke]

if you can, move the lights dont turn them off you want all that color spectrum. or slide your plants to the side . when they are older they can take more. put your hand under lights if you can keep it there for 5-10 minutes its ok. young plants .need spectrum more than luminums. also try for 75f temp with a fan the fan is very ,very important.i've made every stupid mistake you can make,and i keep inventing new ones.i do this for a living and try to make at least one new one every day. jim burke p.s.you can also buy a dimmer switch outlet if your in a closet.

 

[jimburke]

with young new plants its normal for bottom young leaf to yellow and fall off soon your plants will be at the stage where they grow like hell .don't change any thing.just keep an eye on ph and temp.

 

[Hogdady]

Plants are chlorotic (lacking in nitrogen). They should be dark green and thriving! Mexican bat guano is an excellent source....


5 Signs of Nitrogen Deficiency in Plants

Nitrogen deficiency in plants results in reduced growth and fruit production. Without adequate amounts of nitrogen in the soil plants are unable to properly build plant proteins and nucleic acid. What that means to you is that you must provide your flowers and vegetables with adequate amounts of usable nitrogen for them to grow and produce fruit. A nitrogen deficiency may go unnoticed at first or may be misdiagnosed as a lack of moisture. Careful inspection of your plants will reveal that the real culprit is lack of usable nitrogen in the soil.

1. Old leaves turn pale green and may eventually yellow and fall from the plant. Although some yellowing of old leaves may be normal, if more than a leaf or two on your plant suddenly begins to yellow it is a good indication that your plants are suffering from a nitrogen deficiency.

2. New leaves are paler green than existing leaves and appear to be smaller than normal. Young leaves should be a rich green and should grow rapidly. If they are tiny and fail to increase in size within a few days, they may need a boost of Nitrogen.

3. Plant growth slows or stalls. This should not be confused with plants that have reached their mature size. If the plant has not reached maturity or fails to produce new leaves and branching ceases, the culprit may be a Nitrogen Deficiency.

4. Undersides of leaves may take on a red or purple hue. Although this depends on the type of plant you are growing, leaves that discolor on the underside may be a sign for you to add Nitrogen to the soil.

5. Wilting easily under normal weather conditions. Plants suffering from a lack of Nitrogen wilt quickly at the first sign of stress. If your plants are wilting when it is not excessively hot or they are not suffering from excessive dryness, a Nitrogen Deficiency may be causing them to wilt under stress.

 

[razer]

First Ill start with the temp idea. I have 3 fans running here 2 pulling air from the room and exhausting it into another 1 at each corner at the top of the room and another pulling air from the light and exhausting into one of the top fans. I can hold my hand on the glass of the reflector and have no discomfort so I am pretty sure the temp is not because by the lights. I do need to air a general cheapO fan to blow air back and fourth in the enclosure. All air enters though a hole in the lower portion of the room and cracks around the door. No matter how much I try I cant get my temps in a constant 75-79f range they always hover between 78-85 I know a lil high but not deadly from what I understand. And I have tried about 6 different fan combos it is just a small space. I even went as far as to mod the 4 shop lights I am useing and gutted the ballast from them and reran the wiring to get that small heat source out of the room also the MH ballast is located in another room along with the rez and pump. The only thing in the room are the plants, light bulbs, fans. This temp is the best I can do with out getting a vortex fan and they are a bit to louder than what I am looking for .

Now as for the N issue over the last few days i have been woundering this because I know a higher N while in veg is all around good but I think im sitting at like 9-9-6. I deff will hit the store and see if I can find a solo N supp if not Ill just switch to something better. The symptoms you listed all sound right on except the underside of the leafs are normal. I was also leaning to a iron problem cause I think Lack of iron can cause the leaf to yellow /get really pale and be progressive moving up the plant. but N sounds like a more all around on the target solution.

Thank you all so much Ill keep posted and cross my fingers hopefully my babies will spring back to life. ty ty ty

 

[razer]

wow i should reread shit before posting I really suck at spelling and using the proper words where they belong lol

 

[razer]

Hey Hey

here with an update still praying I can fix this I boosted the N as suggested I also got my temps 78-82f. I am not sure they are getting better some deff are not they are pretty much dead while others are hit or miss. Let me know what you think i redid the pics into a before and after combo. the top half of the pic was 7 days ago while the bottom half of the pic was today. I did this to try and save space. I could use a hail mary right about now...

plant 1

plant 2

plant 3

plant 4

plant 5

plant 6

plant 7

plant 8

plant 9

plant 10

plant 11

plant 12 really doing great damn i hope she is a lady

this all happened in 7 day and the really bad one i guess i am only keeping them cause im dreaming they will come around if you think i should just toss the bad one let me know what number please.

Thank you all again for your input.
RaZeR

 

[Hogdady]

notice the difference in color on the new growth....

 

[razer]

Yes very much so most have gotten a darker color, but where there were yellow spots have not turned a brownish black and some have pretty much withered away. I tried to pm you but im still a newb do you think i should hold steady for a bit longer or what. I have a shitload of books and everything else but it seems my grow smarts are no where near my book smarts. thies baby should have gone into bloom already but it been a hell of a road. let me know and thank you again for your input man.

 

[Hogdady]

You will probably lose a couple. The rest seem to be improving. Any updates?

 

[razer]

Ok so..... my big baby that was doing so well just took a turn for the worst yesterday she began wilting/sagging so i made a run down to the hydro store. I spoke with the Lady that works there "totally cool and beyond hot" so on her advice. I came home tonight drained the rez, refilled it with 10 gal of phed r.o. water, added Final Phase clearing flush solution from advanced nutrients. Doing a 4 hour flush followed by a 15 min flush every 3 hrs for 2 days. Then Ill drain the rez refill again with 10 gal phed r.o. add in a bit of grotek mm2000 stress relieving product and keep on track with the 15min feed every 3 hrs for 2 more days. Then the last step will be another rez drain and refill with 16 gal r.o. phed water this time i am switching to fox-farm grow big and a lil cal mag with slow build up starting from 1/4 strength. This is my hail mary so cross your fingers for me hope i am able to at least save some of them. Thanks for all of your input everyone.

 

[whitey78]

Dont get too crazy with the flushing products. I know they help remove build up and all that but fresh ph'ed water goes a long way with sick plants. Also, I would suggest getting some superthrive and add a drop or 2 per gallon and run that in your res. I have yet to use a flush product, not to say I dont have a few, and also I'm not a real experienced grower but I've dealt with probably every problem one could deal with and I havent even hit flowering yet.

One thing I didnt see you post was your res temp. Thats important for oxygen levels and should not be above 70 degrees or you will be inviting some unwanted problems.

I read the whole thread but I did not notice if you have flushed with straight water as of yet? I'd really suggest flushing with straight PHed 5.6-.7 water with a few drops of superthrive or with straight water.

Also, really think twice about using FF. Its a great product but meant to be used with "decent" filtered tap water. It does not have enough trace elements for RO water, and that comes straight from a fox farms rep. The cal mag will help but you will more than likely will end up with other deficiencies. I'd suggest getting something thats more inclined for RO water.

I started out with this setup from techniflora called "recipe for success" and I gotta say its pretty good and well balanced, the best part is its fairly cheap. For roughly $40 you get everything you could possibly need for at least one entire grow beginning to end depending on how large your grow is. The one thing you will probably have to buy more of is the BC boost, thats used beginning to end. It has all the supplements and everything your plants could need. Good for soil or hydro.

Heres a link to the techniflora website: Technaflora Plant Products - Product List

Heres a link for a shop that has it: Technaflora Recipe For Success B.C. Bloom Starter Kit: J from Kalyx.com - Hydroponics & Gardening - Nutrients, Liquid

Theres a million other places that have it, I got mine at my hydro shop. Even though I started with it, I ended up switching to the Fox farm products and schedule, however deficiencies made me change my mind.

Also, dont let homegirls hottness effect the brain in your head (the one on your shoulders) and sell you shit you dont need, believe me thats the reason she's there more than her growing abilities I'm sure. It sounds like she knows her shit, but believe me, the people around here probably know much more, myself not included....

 

[razer]

Lol yeah the hottie factor can always end up selling you extra shit, but she has been really cool I always end up getting a good deal to give an ideal i got the flush, the FF 8 more ft of hose a few fittings ohh and the de stressor, all for around 27 and i dont get small bottles cause its a bit of a drive for me they are really all about the grow when she cant answer something her brother steps in. But anyways lol.... So I have made it through the cycle and I think I forgot to mention a rather big change, I went from a drip top feed system to a flood drain set up. Im pretty handy so it was not to hard to modify. The first 2 cycles of flushing and de stressor saw the loss of my biggest plant but now that I have made it back to nutes "Im starting back at 20% strength ill build by 10% each RO change" my second biggest plant that kind of stalled growth wise is now exploding and Im seeing a lot of new growth of the plants that were losing all of there lower branches. At this point I should state the biggest problem i found as I did the 1st flush and changed over to a flood drain set up and noticed I did not wash the damn hydroton balls worth a damn. With the flood drain the res quickly changed to a rusty red/brown color so needless to say Im retarded and this caused me to do a few water changes to clear out the hydroton dust. But all in all the plants seem to be doing much better. Ill check into the FF and RO issue ty for that info. Rez temp is roughly 68 so it is good. Ill post some updated photos later. Thank you all again for the input its been extremely useful. Sorry to you grammar police out there Im the king of misspelling,run on sentences, bad punctuation, and in general crappy writing so mybad lol

Razer