ClosetCase420's - RDWC - 600W MH/HPS - AK47 - Grow Journal - 2016

closetcase420

Well-Known Member
The strain is Feminized AK48 from Nirvana.

I started on 4/12 by germinating 2 seeds.

I germinated the seeds by...
First letting them submerse themselves in a cup of water.
Next I kept the seeds between two moist paper towels in between two plates for 2 days.

On day 2 I moved the seedlings to rapid rooters.

The rapid rooters are now sitting in 3 1/2 inch net pots surrounded by clay orchid grow media. The net pots are sitting on the lid of a Rubbermaid 3 gallon tote filled with 6.5 PH tap water (125 PPM base). (my calculations are using a Blue Lab meter calibrated at 0.5). There is one large 2x4 inch aqua air stone driven by an EcoPlus air pump (793 GPH shared with grow cabinet res).

This set up is temporary as I will be moving one of the two plants to the grow cabinet I use for all of my grows throughout a majority of veg and all of flower. The cabinet has a 15 gallon res under air cooled 600 watt MH/HPS. The temperatures are generally in mid 70s with a low RH (been working to increase humidity). My current setup includes a water chiller that I run at about 67 degrees.

Today is about 4 weeks into VEG under the CFLs. I'll be moving the better of the two over to the grow cabinet as soon as the Aurora Indica I have finish up in the next 1-2 weeks. Here are a few pictures of the girls today.

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Since I am only going to run a single plant this time I want to try and split to 4 main colas. I'm hoping this will allow me to spread the plant out more evenly across the SCROG. I have not yet decided what I am going to do with the second plant. I may just keep it small and try and run it under CFLs with the left over GH G-M-B I have. Now to the questions...



For this grow I have switched from GH G-M-B to AN Sensi A and B for Veg and Bloom base nutrients. I've been reading for the last couple days and I want to switch from a sterile environment to a live res for this grow so I have questions regarding tea, my existing nutrients, and my setup.

1) when using a microbial tea should I use any other additives or just the base nutrients in the Sensi A and B?

2) I currently have a chiller that I run at 67 degrees. Should I keep the chiller in my set up and just run it at a higher temperature like 72 degrees or should I remove it all together? What is the ideal temperature for a live res?

3) Right now I am doing a full res change about every 10-14 days. With the tea how long would I run the same res? Do I just refill purely with tea or a tea / water mixture? For example day 3 after putting in the tea I am down 3 gallons, how do I replenish?

4) Can I use any of my existing products to make the tea or in addition to the tea? I have...

Liquid KoolBloom 0-10-0
Dry KoolBloom 2-45-28
CalMag 2-0-0
SilicaBlast 0-0-0.5
FloraLicious Plus 2-0.8-0.02
Orca
Nirvana
SuperTHRIVE
H202
HydroGuard

5) Do I use RO water for the tea or can I use tap water?

6) Any advice regarding topping? When should I do it?

I think that is all for now though I'm sure each answer will lead to more questions :)
 
1) when using a microbial tea should I use any other additives or just the base nutrients in the Sensi A and B?

So that is sort of not the right question.

The nutrient solution needs to contain in the proper ratios what the plant needs. A good tea can be brewed to have everything a plant needs but at the same time it is also fairly strong. Easily 800PPM. So if you want the res to be at 400PPM then you can't just fill it with tea. I have a buddy who does flood and drain and his res is a tea brewer and he just runs straight tea all the time but that is more complex.

So for you...what we will do is mimic the AN feed schedule just supplement instead for things we don't want to pay for. So you have the base so we can skip that.

The EWC tea itself has many uses and can be brewed for multiple purposes. One of the most obvious is as a replacement for the line of beneficial bacteria from AN. If you look at the feeding schedule for the bacteria you see it is every 2 weeks. That is becasue the bacteria live for about 4-6 days (unless to keep them alive doing something they don't have you do). Then it takes about a week for the bad stuff to build up again. So we can introduce a strong EWC every 2 weeks to solve most all of the problems you might have and then we can tune what gets brewed into it to match the stage of growth. So for example later in bloom we can add more Phosphorus.

So you mix and match with the base nutes since you will be topping off regularly.

So once every 2 weeks you give her a drink of the good stuff and then in between you top off the res with solution that is made from the base you have at the right PPM to keep the res happy.


2) I currently have a chiller that I run at 67 degrees. Should I keep the chiller in my set up and just run it at a higher temperature like 72 degrees or should I remove it all together? What is the ideal temperature for a live res?


4) Can I use any of my existing products to make the tea or in addition to the tea? I have...

Well H2O2 kills everything so that's gotta go.

The silica blast will come in handy greatly. The Floralicious we may dump in there. Same you could throw in Nirvana but you don't need to. Basically the tea makes those things not the other way around.




Living res does like it higher in the lower 70's is good. Too high and bad bacteria can grow but again many people have shown they can run it real warm with enough beneficial bacteria in there. You could try being supper cool and turning it off for the first week after you add tea and then run it cold the second week of the cycle. Since they are dead already you would just be killing of new bad stuff.



3) Right now I am doing a full res change about every 10-14 days. With the tea how long would I run the same res? Do I just refill purely with tea or a tea / water mixture? For example day 3 after putting in the tea I am down 3 gallons, how do I replenish?

So similar to last time... you can technically go for probably the whole grow if done correctly but that is hard. When you loose control just like last time that is when you dump. Basically we just think of the res as a living thing too, not just the plant, and keep it happy and healthy and the res can easily last a moth with just topping off. But I have seen uptake rates more than double after a good tea.

So how you top off is the same. You measure the res and know what PPM your target is and mix the top off to target and add that to the res and then you land somewhere between and the original measurement and target and the plant is not shocked. You will be topping off so fast that it will get to the correct state in a few days no problem.

You may use the tea more often then every 2 weeks as long as you don't over do it. The tea I make is strong and can easily burn but it is also easy to make it much weaker. You choose. You can make it strong and cut it down...you choose. When you make it you will make way too much. you can save it in the fridge a few days but then it goes bad eventually. I throw it on other plants.

This is where it gets fun and becomes more like being a chef cooking up your own strange brew for this weeks needs. And it is a lot more easy then you might think.


5) Do I use RO water for the tea or can I use tap water?

Depends on your water. Probably should use RO. I use tap becasue I have Chlorine not chlorimate in my water. But Honestly it takes so long for the microbes to take hold I bet it still doesn't matter much. Honestly I would try it once from straight tap and if it works you are good to go. It will work! We can just keep dumping in beneficial microbes until all the chorimate is used up and that aint much.

6) Any advice regarding topping? When should I do it?

Before the ice cream melts.

(5 nodes.. 8 branches to grow out and 2 in reserve in case or to clone for the next grow)


Great to have you back!!!

My life gets in the way too...just because I don't reply all the time doesn't mean you should stop.
 
1) when using a microbial tea should I use any other additives or just the base nutrients in the Sensi A and B?

-- just so I understand your answer the tea can include base nutrients but since I already have base nutrients I will use the tea as a supplement about once every two weeks. Do I dump the res two weeks after adding the tea?


2) I currently have a chiller that I run at 67 degrees. Should I keep the chiller in my set up and just run it at a higher temperature like 72 degrees or should I remove it all together? What is the ideal temperature for a live res?

-- if 72 is ok I think I'll go ahead and keep the chiller in the loop as this turns my DWC into RDWC and I like the idea that I can control the temperature without worrying.


3) Right now I am doing a full res change about every 10-14 days. With the tea how long would I run the same res? Do I just refill purely with tea or a tea / water mixture? For example day 3 after putting in the tea I am down 3 gallons, how do I replenish?

-- Is the idea base nutrients at the recommended dosage in addition to the tea. Every few days refill the res with balanced base nutrients and dump/refill the res after two weeks?


Where do I get started? The plants are about 4 weeks old and I just introduce the base nutrients a couple days ago. Should I get the components from your grow thread or do you have a suggestion on mixing up what I have?

You know me, I like to have a plan in place so if I can have some kind of schedule laid out that will make me rest easier. For example..

Every 2 weeks do this..
CalMag
SilicaBlast
Base Nutes
Cup of Tea

Every few days refill the res with water and base nutes

At the end of 2 weeks dump the res and start over?
 
The base nutes from AN are hard to beat. You have them so lets use them.

The tea can have everything in it...or just a few. It is not just a double punch or a triple punch it is a thousand hand slap. It has many purposes and just so happens to do just about everything we could possibly need. It is true magic for those who don't understand chemistry.

We will make what we want as we need it. We will start with the standard base and see how your plants respond. If they consume the entire res in 3 days we may want to add some more.



1) when using a microbial tea should I use any other additives or just the base nutrients in the Sensi A and B?

Your grow...depends how you want to solve problems. I can guide you either way. I wouldn't. Lets look at those ingredients and what we have in the tea. Ask me about each "additive" and I will splain.

Big Bud is the same stuff everyone makes. I use MOAB as it is much cheaper.

The B52 is not needed. You can have mine...I'll go out front and leave it on the curb for ya. That said I use a different product and find that I don't need to use that much either. I have great uptake rates due to extremely good root systems from the tea. Lots of what is in B52 is in the tea.

Ancient Earth that we make in the tea

Nirvana we make in the tea (so if you want to add some in the in-between weeks you can buy some).

Bud Blood, Bud Candy, Bud Factor X all come in the tea.

It also includes Rhino Skin, Semsizyme, and of course voodoo juice / piranha.


Many people who have analyzed it have asked me why I don't include mycorrhiza as then it would be absolutely everything a plant needs. The reason I don't is I don't like to marry the application of the two. But if you added some fungi here it would be everything possibly needed to grow. I use it in bloom exclusively in soil nowa days.

My current grow I am doing to show someone how to grow without using products from the store. How to make your own and grow on as little as possible to get good stuff. I made a great soil but the only thing I have added the whole grow is water, Cal Mag, Silica, Sugars and my tea. The tea is enough when done correctly.



2) is fine. 72 is actually about perfect.



3) NO NO NO...The plan is to make you a zen master grower who doesn't need to dump until he wants to. My friend never dumps and just tops off the entire grow. How does that sound. going in every 2-3 days and mixing up a bucket and topping off and that is it.


Chances are at about a month or so you may need to dump but we may be able to pull this off with you. You are very meticulous and clean and I think you could do it where as other might not.


The Idea is now we get you to grow right. Last time you learned about PPM and pH and how they relate and how to keep the PPM at the right spot. You learned how the PPM has to go up then down. You know now how to properly measure that and know what 890ppm means.


So now you can do a grow where you not only mix the solution PPM up before adding to the res but we are going to be making the fertilizers and additives as well so all those numbers now get real meaningful to manage.

Here is how it rolls out.

You are going to transfer that into a clean ready res that is at a lower PPM, just right for the age of that plant(maybe 3 -4 weeks?). You grow like normal. You top off as she drinks with the right solution to maintain the res at the right PPM. (that was the whole point of teaching you that first!!!) Maybe every 2 days or so you are adding water. In the beginning no way. later on 2 gallons a day will be easy to do so every other day 4 gallons is great. So you just top off every other day or so and when she is ready we will make the tea. But we don't want to do it too early. By the time you are transferring her she would be ready I think so we could do it any time after transfer if you want.

I would start with using all the beneficial bacteria you have sitting on the shelf and use it all up in heavy doses and see how far we can get. Then when it is gone we will switch to tea and bring her home. You can't over do the microbes really.

If you make it a few weeks just on the old stuff and the res is starting to loose stability we can make a brew and see if that fixes it. That is likely the first time we will try to use it. We will make enough to give her some and if it doesn't work we will dump the res and start the next one with the rest of the batch.

Don't think of this as much different. We are just going to add something every few weeks that works like a magic elixir and just need to keep up with the res when the uptake shoot through the roof.

That is where you can run into trouble. When the uptake shoots off then you need to be careful not to burn the plants.
 
We will start with the standard base and see how your plants respond. If they consume the entire res in 3 days we may want to add some more.

When you say the standard base do you mean the base nutrients (Sensi Grow A & B) or would I be adding tea as well at this point in the grow?

Big Bud is the same stuff everyone makes. I use MOAB as it is much cheaper.

I do recall using MOAB on the Wonder Woman grow until I ran out. Should I add that to my shopping list?

The reason I don't is I don't like to marry the application of the two. But if you added some fungi here it would be everything possibly needed to grow. I use it in bloom exclusively in soil nowa days.

So you don't believe I should include a product with mycorrhiza but many others may?

I made a great soil but the only thing I have added the whole grow is water, Cal Mag, Silica, Sugars and my tea.

I am just about out of Silica Blast and need to order a replacement. Should I stick with Silica Blast or do you have a recommendation?

By the time you are transferring her she would be ready I think so we could do it any time after transfer if you want.

I'm hoping to transfer her to the larger res in about two weeks. In the mean time should I be providing anything to the plants in the current res other than the Sensi A and B? Should I be using silicate now? Should I be using Cal-Mag now? Should I apply orca directly to the roots now to stimulate the growth or will that be part of the tea?
 
When you say the standard base do you mean the base nutrients (Sensi Grow A & B) or would I be adding tea as well at this point in the grow?

Yes standard base is Seni A and B. We can do the same in the tea if we like and for the most part will. that is partly why it is hot. it comes out at 800PPM with everything the plant needs. so you will brew it up and for each plant (in your case you only have one) you add 4-6 cups right through the medium so that all the goo bacteria get into all the nasty crap in the rocks. what makes it to the res will breed, clean up the res, make fertilizers, kill bad bacteria...and it will go in with a but load of nutes and boosters.


So like it will be a Friday and you say hey I wanna add it Sunday. and you start it up. Then Sunday rolls around and you add 6 cups to the res through the basket and then measure the res. If the PPM is off then make some top off to adjust.


And you wont worry about pH maybe even for 2-3 days while the bacteria go to town. The first time you do this, if you wait long enough into the grow, it will go crazy and will scare you. But the scarier it is the better it is working and you will learn to be happy to see what it does.

And when you add it you likely wont need to add anything to the top off. Likely you will top off with just dechlorinated tap with maybe some cal mag and silica.

I have not tried running hydro only on Tea like I do in soil.

I do recall using MOAB on the Wonder Woman grow until I ran out. Should I add that to my shopping list?

I don't use it all that much anymore but it is good to have on the shelf for when you need it and I don't think it goes bad. It is all chemicals but this time we are gonna try to do it a little more natural. I haven't used it in a while but I am glad I have it if I need it. I was using it mainly for 2 things I amusing the tea for now.

So you don't believe I should include a product with mycorrhiza but many others may?

No put in as much as you want it can't hurt. But the application of the one does not really correspond to the other. So I don't like to marry them and force them at the same time. I may apply them at the same time often but that is coincidence at best. Basically you don't need to apply the mycorrhizae as often so why do it. There is enough going on not to need to add stuff I don't need more of that is already in there...That may not be you.


I use Mad Farmers Silica becasue it was recommended to me. I found it works fantastic and I use it exclusively as my UP when dialing in solution and works great. That said I have no idea if silica blast is better. If silica blast is cheaper then I'd say use it.

So yeah since the Orca has the mycorrhizae go ahead and get some in there and again introduce through the basket. now. Not sure when we will get around to making the tea. you have a pile of ingredients to get first. :)

Silica for sure but it doesn't need a lot.

The Cal mag I like to add as insurance but the Seni A I think has some ...but never enough. Maybe add a little of that for now too.
 
I added a dew drops of CalMag and a few drops of Silica Blast to the small res.

So far in the 3 gallon res I have...

10ml AN Sensi Grow A
10ml AN Sensi Grow B
1-2 ml Silica Blast
1-2 ml CalMag
1-2 ml Orca (through net pots)

We're sitting at 5.7 PH and 570 PPM (a little hot isn't it for the low amount of nutes)

While I am gathering all of the components for brewing the tea should I be using...

the HydroGuard I have now, the bacillus would help the roots at this stage help right?

the FloraLicious Plus I have now, it has a lot of good benes from what I can see?

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All good stuff.


You are so close man!!!

The key is understanding the ingredients and you are so close. It isn't just the N-P-K ratio. Knowing why Kelp is good and what it does helps. Knowing Why alfalfa is good helps. Understanding how roots work and need the fungi and bacteria helps.


But in the end when you can look at the plant and go "I know it needs more Phos so I am going to brew up some Bat Guano."... When you get to the point of tying symptoms to ingredients and understanding what you need then you can tune the grow to optimize it for the strain.

Pretty soon you are going to start supplementing and who knows. You may get so good you don't need anything other then a home brew.

Then you want to build something like this...I know I guy who runs Flood and Drain and the res where it sits all day is one of these vortex brewers. Then it drains and fills the flood table and drains it back and starts brewing again. He lives on tea.


(runs on an air pump)
Turbo-Vortex Compost Tea Brewer - YouTube

I am building one after I move...I got the pump already...I am excited. I make this stuff soooooo much this will be nice.
 
All good information but I still don't know if I should I be using the HydroGuard and/or the FloraLicious Plus I have now.

I'm assuming the answer is yes as I don't see any detriment as long as I'm using small doses..

Is this correct, I should try and keep the res around 72 and use the following products for now..

AN Sensi Grow A
AN Sensi Grow B
Silica Blast
CalMag
Orca (through net pots)
HydroGuard
FloraLicious Plus
 
Yes I am sorry that wasn't clear. You continue to use your stuff. The tea is supplemental once every 2 weeks. We won't ramp it up faster then that.

I am making some this weekend. :)
 
Also...

The tea recipe that you posted in your grow thread; that is for a full regiment replacement, you need nothing more than the tea right? Do most people use the tea as a full replacement or as a supplement feeding? For this grow I want to use the Sensi A and B so am I going to make my tea differently than what you originally stated in your grow?

I just want to do what makes the most sense.. Since I have the Sensi Grow and Bloom A/B what should I do for benes? Should I just use the combination of Orca, HydroGuard, and FloraLicious Plus or should I invest in the ingredients for a tea? What would you do?
 
Yeah I tried saying in the beginning to use up your stuff and we would start with the tea later. It is all up to you. Those 2 products are included in the tea. So when you do the tea you don't need to use those. When you use those you don't need the tea so much...but the tea is a lot more then those 2 things. So it isn't like those 2 are a replacement. But they solve a lot of problems.
 
Ok this makes sense. I think I'll use the following for for now..

AN Sensi Grow A
AN Sensi Grow B
Silica Blast
CalMag
Orca (through net pots)
HydroGuard
FloraLicious Plus

I'm going to start gathering all of the ingredients for the tea which I'll start using immediately on the Aurora and when I run out of product I can start using it on the AK47.

Thanks for helping out VI..
 
Update:Day 36 Veg

5/15 - 6.1 500
First Feeding, 10ml Sensi Grow A and Sensi Grow B
I added a couple drops of Orca through each net pot

5/16 - 7.1 510
The PH really spiked back up over night so I need to check this again tomorrow.
I added a few drops of PH-
I also added a few drops of Silica Blast and CalMag
current, 5.7 570

5/17 - current, 6.2 570
PH seems to have gone up a few notches over night
check again tomorrow without changing anything to
see if it continues to rise or not.

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I never know showed how I made this box..

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Wow can't say I approve. That is a fire hazard. If it doesn't need stealth it is better to go ghetto and leave it in the open with the bulb over it.
 
yeah just overly cautious. Those CFLS do get kinda warm over time. Should be fine but I just can't approve a paper box.


I saw a trick once that may work for you better.

You can make a fake stack of Rubbermaid tubs. Cut out all but an outer ring of the lid of the lower one...just enough so the next tub can sit on it. And cut out the bottom of the upper tub. Stack them and it looks like tubs stacked but is really a secret volume. Put a third on their and you can hide the light.
 
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