Usul's Grow 2.1: Red Cherry Berry, Indoor 250W MH/HPS, 2'x2' ScrOG in soil

[usul]

Hi folks,

After recovering from my complete failure as a hydroponics grower I'm back with a new journal documenting my fortunes growing in soil.

Here are the stats for this grow:

Strain: Barney's Farm Red Cherry Berry - Indica/Sativa mix
Medium: 66% quality potting soil, 33% perlite
Nutrients: Fox Farm trio plus Hygrozyme and Cal/Mag Plus
Grow Room: Secret Jardin Darkroom DR60 tent - 24" x 24" x 54"
Lighting: 250W MH/HPS switchable
Ventilation: 200CFM vortex fan

I'll get a picture of my setup posted soon.

The beginning of this grow was a bit odd. I was trying to grow using a DWC Hydroponic setup but was having a terrible time. Seems I was doing a better job growing a vat of bacterial goo than I was at growing marijuana. Three weeks in to my second attempt at I pulled the plants and put them in soil. That was a week ago and I've waited until now to see if they'd survive the transplant. Results are shown in the picture below.

Looks like they've taken to their soil home rather well! The different color in the two pictures is due to different lighting... I was using T5 HO florescents and just switched to the 250W MH.

The plants are in temporary 6" pots right now but I'll move them to their final pots - modified 5 gal buckets - in a few days. At that point I'll remove one plant and be set up for a two-plant ScrOG.

 

[BassBong]

Nice to see the plants make a comeback in soil.

 

[ultrasonic]

Yay, you've finally got little babies like you deserve good work!

 

[BAMarijuana]

Man they really busted out in the dirt Huh? Good job.

How are you doing the 5 gals?? make sure ya got plenty of holes LOL I got a friend that uses those and he stabed about 500 holes in one and it just barley got to a trickel LOL

I told him ya just about gotta drill the 500 holes to get it to drain fast enough.

anyway they look great keep it up.

 

[Setting Sun]

They're looking very healthy!

Nothin' wrong with growing in soil .

 

[usul]

Here's a quick update on how things are going. It has been an interesting week. Things were swell until last Saturday. The plants were quite dry so I gave them a light watering and they didn't like it one bit. Within 24 hours the leaves had bent down and it was looking like a sure case of overwatering. Hoping for things to improve I waited four days and very little had changed so I decided to do a transplant and take a look at the roots. I was expecting to see roots that were sickly and overly wet but what I found was exactly the opposite - if anything, the soil was too dry, and in just 10 days the root system had exploded and was encircling the pots. What could have been causing the dramatic leaf curling stress reaction? Note that when I say leaf curling, it wasn't really the leaves themselves that were curling down, it was the stalks supporting them. The actual leaves looked great.

Anyway, 24 hours after transplanting into slightly larger pots the plants are showing significant improvement. After the transplant they got a good watering of half-strength Hygrozyme and CalMag Plus. Here's a picture of them 24 hours later at day 33 of veg:

Notice how Pebbles, and especially Betty, look a little droopy - it was much worse yesterday. Wilma is a superstar and has perked up exceptionally well. Cripes, if she were any more perky she'd hurt herself

 

[Setting Sun]

It was caused by the plants being root-bound.

Once the roots max out, the plants start to droop and begin looking generally sick and unhappy.

They should all be doing great soon!

checking the root ball was very good call!

 

[mary_juana420]

Looking great !
Here for the ride Usul !

MJ420

 

[usul]

It was caused by the plants being root-bound.

Once the roots max out, the plants start to droop and begin looking generally sick and unhappy.

They should all be doing great soon!

checking the root ball was very good call!

Thanks so much Setting Sun - your insights are super helpful! Yes, I agree the issue is one of root system geometry. The plants are liking their new home and, as you've predicted, are all looking good. Just a few days after repotting, however, Betty and Pebbles started to droop again. My moisture meter said they were getting kinda dry so even though it seemed too soon, I watered them again, this time with 1/2 strength Fox Farm nutes - and they perked right back up. Seems the 33% perlite mix does fine with frequent waterings. I also think the transplant from hydro to soil introduced some less than ideal conditions. The roots on Betty and Pebbles were a tangled mess which I was not able to reorganize. Wilma's roots, on the other hand, spread out quite nicely and I think that's part of the reason she's doing better. I imagine the other plants will continue to improve as they build a larger and more well distributed root system. We shall see...

Looking great !
Here for the ride Usul !

MJ420

Thanks MJ! Good to have you on board. I've been watching your grow as if my plants look as good as yours in a week or so I'll be very happy!

Okay, here's where we're at 5 weeks into veg: the condition of all plants has imporved and I'm getting the hang of knowing when they need water, nutes, etc. I'm still a complete newbie and these are the oldest plants I've ever had so every day is a learing experience. Here's a pic of the plants at 35 days old:

I may revise my strategy regarding training and such. Rather than a 2-plant ScrOG I'm considering keeping all 3 plants going and just doing some pruning and light training. I'd like to switch to flowering by week 7 and given the current growth rate I doubt they'd fill much of the screen by then. We'll see how things develop in the next few weeks. I did, however, prune the very small top node of each plant trying to use the FIM technique. Should be interesting to see how that works out.

 

[OldMedUser]

Wow usul! Those are just beautiful plants.

I'm glad you labeled them. I'd hate to call Pebbles, Betty and have BamBam show up and kick my ass! lol

Are you watering from the top or bottom. With that much drainage if you let them suck it up the soil gets soaked thoroughly and won't leave voids where roots could dry out. A layer of perlite on top with bottom watering and the top stays dry for less bugs and algae growth. But you're doing great so don't change for me.

+reps for such pretty girls.

 

[usul]

Hey Lab Rat - thanks for checking in and for your support and advice! The plants are indeed looking good, especially considering what they've been through...

Your thoughts regarding bottom watering make sense though I'm not sure how I'd make it work given the very small space I'm dealing with - I'll have to think about this some more. Once they get into their final pots I will add a top dressing to retain moisture - probably using the hydroton (sterilized) I have left over from my failed attempt at hydropinics.

The fast drying of the pots is almost certainly due to the high temps (upper 80s) and low humidity (mid 30s) in the tent. I just finished fiddling with the exhaust ducting and it seems to be making a big difference - more on this when I know more. I'm hoping the reconfigured ductwork combined with larger pots and hydroton top dressing will provide a more stable environment. Stay tuned!

The other thing that'll be interesting to watch are the results of my newbie attempt at FIMing. Each plant got topped in a slightly different way mostly because I learned more after each try. I decided to leave the differences intact so we could watch and see how it all works out.

Thanks everyone for hangin' in there with me - it's been a crazy ride. I'll post a big update this weekend with pics of the plants at six weeks old, in their final pots, and with closeups of the FIM progress.

 

[ultrasonic]

Hey Lab Rat - thanks for checking in and for your support and advice! The plants are indeed looking good, especially considering what they've been through...

Your thoughts regarding bottom watering make sense though I'm not sure how I'd make it work given the very small space I'm dealing with - I'll have to think about this some more. Once they get into their final pots I will add a top dressing to retain moisture - probably using the hydroton (sterilized) I have left over from my failed attempt at hydropinics.

The fast drying of the pots is almost certainly due to the high temps (upper 80s) and low humidity (mid 30s) in the tent. I just finished fiddling with the exhaust ducting and it seems to be making a big difference - more on this when I know more. I'm hoping the reconfigured ductwork combined with larger pots and hydroton top dressing will provide a more stable environment. Stay tuned!

The other thing that'll be interesting to watch are the results of my newbie attempt at FIMing. Each plant got topped in a slightly different way mostly because I learned more after each try. I decided to leave the differences intact so we could watch and see how it all works out.

Thanks everyone for hangin' in there with me - it's been a crazy ride. I'll post a big update this weekend with pics of the plants at six weeks old, in their final pots, and with closeups of the FIM progress.

You don't think that you can get away without posting any pictures, do you? . Perhaps a closeup of the FIM-job?

 

[usul]

Ha ha! Ultra, you are a cruel taskmaster - lol. Life's a little busy right now but I'll see if I can get some new pics up tonight... Saturday for sure...

 

[usul]

We're still hangin' in there - here's the latest:

The girls have been transplanted yet again - now to their final pots: 5 gallon buckets which have been shortened a bit and with many (very many) holes drilled in the bottom. Soil is a premium potting mix with 33% perlite. I am still looking for a place where I can buy Fox Farm Ocean Forest soil so this stuff will have to do for now. The bottom inch or two of each bucket is filled with washed alabaster rocks to make sure the drain holes stay open. I've added a top dressing of hydroton to retain moisture but I'm not sure I'll keep it. I'd like the pots to dry out quickly so I can adjust nutirent levels and flush frequently. I think I'll increase perlite to 50% for my next grow. Water added to the transplant included Cal Mag Plus and Hygrozyme but no nutes - the new soil includes some composted organics and should tide the plants over until their next watering, which I hope will happen in about a week.

Here's a pic of the girls in their new home at day 42 veg:

Here's another pic showing plant height - only 8 inches:

Comparing the growth of these plants with those of the same age in other journals leaves me disappointed. If anyone needs proof that too many transplants stress out the plants and stunts growth these pics should settle any questions.

A week ago I decided to try my hand at pruning and topped the plants using the FIM technique. Here's a pic showing where I cut and how the plants have developed:

Pebbles was my first attempt and I don't think I removed enough material - you can see all the extra growth I didn't expect (the part labeled "oops?"). Wilma was my final attempt and came out about as expected (?). Betty got a trim similar to Wilma's but the new tops haven't grown enough for a good pic. Note that the difference between Pebble's and Wilma's pruning was less than 1/16". Getting this right requires good eyes and a very steady hand.

The other thing that causes me some wonderment is the small extra growth near Wilma's top - the thing in the circle labeld with "?". I'm seeing a few of those in other places and on the other plants. Any ideas what that might be?

One other note - I removed some of the intake and exhaust ducting and airflow has improved dramatically. I was having trouble keeping temps under 90F but now it's easy to maintain 75F - I even had to plug one of the cold air intakes to keep it from getting too cold. This gives me hope I'll be able to grow in somewhat warmer weather.

And a last thought: These plants are clearly behind the curve and I don't think I'll learn much more by vegging them any longer. So, I'm planning to switch from MH to HPS and start 12/12 flowering tomorrow. Let the learning experience continue!!

 

[OldMedUser]

That extra growth on Wilma looks like an evil twin sister or just a side shoot branch coming out. Whichever seems more logical is probably closer to being right. lol

They're looking robust enough to flower but might it not be better to let them get real comfy in there for say another week before they get more stress by switching to 12/12?

A tip I didn't hear about 'till recently was to use the same lights you're using for veg for the first 2 weeks of 12/12 to limit stretch. I wish I'd tried it with this grow as they more than doubled in height.

For bottom watering in limited space, find a cheap plastic tray somewhere that's big enough for the pails and water all three at once. Or make a little frame out of 1x4 and line it with plastic like a waterbed frame. Only if you want to tho.

They're looking great and ought to give you lots of sweet buds. +Rep

 

[ultrasonic]

Lookin good usul! Yeah it sucks they when they get stressed, they really start to slow themselves down. On top of that, soil is slower than hydroponics so there's even more delay. They do look like they've started to do their thing though, just give them some space.

I don't know much about soil, so *lurk* but I'm stayin on top of the updates

 

[usul]

They're looking robust enough to flower but might it not be better to let them get real comfy in there for say another week before they get more stress by switching to 12/12?

A tip I didn't hear about 'till recently was to use the same lights you're using for veg for the first 2 weeks of 12/12 to limit stretch. I wish I'd tried it with this grow as they more than doubled in height.

Thanks so much Lab Rat - I really appreciate the guidance and have taken your advice. Flowering is on hold until the plants settle in a bit longer. Growth has picked up noticably in the last day or two so I'll probably flip the switch before the end of this week. I like the idea of limiting stretch (I don't have much vertical space) so I'll stick with the MH for the first few weeks of 12/12. Thanks again!

Lookin good usul! Yeah it sucks they when they get stressed, they really start to slow themselves down. On top of that, soil is slower than hydroponics so there's even more delay. They do look like they've started to do their thing though, just give them some space.

I don't know much about soil, so *lurk* but I'm stayin on top of the updates

Thanks Ultra - your support is always appreciated! Happy to say the plants are picking up speed and growth is noticable daily.

I like the FIMing (when done properly) - each plant will have at least four tops, and the pruning has given the side branches on the lower nodes more light and a chance to grow while the tops get reorganized. Things should be very bushy real soon.

 

[usul]

I have a couple questions for you experienced growers out there - hope you can offer some advice...

Question 1: How often should I run the exhaust fan? I have a vortex fan rated at 200CFM pulling air out of an 18 cu/ft tent through a carbon filter. Currently, the fan is on whenever the lights are on then 10 minutes per hour when the lights are off. When the lights and exhaust are on humidity can get very low (20% or less) so I run humidifiers during lights-on and am able to keep RH at about 40%. With lights and exhaust off humidity can climb as high as 75%, which is why I'm running the exhaust fan for 10 minutes an hour just to keep the air somewhat fresh. Should I be running the exhaust 24/7? I'd rather not - just to save energy and wear and tear on the fan (not sure it's rated for continuous use). I've figured out how to manage temps in any condition - just wondering what would be best for the plants and the fan...?

Question 2: When should I water? In my very small space lifting the pots to check weight isn't a viable option. I've been using a moisture meter I like a lot (I tried one - Rapitest - which was not sensitive enough and generally sucked, then tried another - Hold All - which works very well and who's readings I've been able to calibrate by checking the soil during transplants). I know the plants could use water when the meter reads 5. Here's what I'm wondering: moisture levels vary dramatically at different depths. For example, 2" down can be completely dry, 6" down (about the current depth of the roots) reads a 7, and 12" down reads a 10. Should I water when the root depth reads 5 or when the deepest level gets to 5? Put another way, should I let the pots dry out all the way to the bottom before watering or should I water when the roots at mid/low level seem dry but the bottom of the pots are still plenty wet?

I'm also wondering if I should add water until it just barely drips out the bottom of the pots or until it flows in abundance?

Thanks for any and all advice you can provide to this newbie grower.

 

[usul]

Mid-week update: The girls are looking great and are obviously comfortable in their new home. Growth has really taken off in all directions. They've grow 2inches taller in the last 4 days. So, given that they've overcome the transplant stress...

It's Flowering Time!

All timers have been reset and they're now on a 12/12 light cycle. Per Lab Rat's suggestion I'll keep using the MH bulb for the next two weeks then switch to HPS for the rest of the grow. Thanks Lab Rat!

Here are pics of the girls, 46 days old, day 1 flower:

It's been 6 days since they were transplanted and these large pots are slow to dry out - the moisture reading has moved down from 10 to 7. When it gets to 5 it'll be time to water. I'm planning to give them 1/2 strength Fox Farm Tiger Bloom and Big Bloom as specified in the "week 5" (first week of flowering) application - unless anyone has a better idea...??

 

[ultrasonic]

Those girls are looking great usul nice work! Sorry I can't comment much on soil nutrient applications, but whatever you're doing, keep doing it. Those are looking F-I-N-E