Lil Neutrino's Bagseed CFL Poor Man's Grow 2009 - First Attempt

[Lil Neutrino]

Is it Indica, Sativa or Hybrid? What percentages?
Unknown....bagseed from two different bags. Seeds were somewhere between 6 months and 5 years old, stored in a dark drawer at room temp (anywhere from 70-85F+). Started as an experiment to see if they were even still viable...apparently they were. Out of 11 seeds from three bags (one batch of three seeds from one bag had 0% germ rate) only these germinated though.

Is it in Veg or Flower stage?
Veg

If in Veg... For how long?
Germed on May 18th or 19th, didn't check them for a whole day and found some stretched seedlings morning of 19th.

Indoor or outdoor?
Indoor

Soil or Hydro?
Soil

If soil... what is in your mix?
FFOF

If soil... What size pot?
Uhhh...1gal I think

Size of light?
4 26W 6500k CFL's

Is it aircooled?
Yes

Temp of Room/cab?
First cabinet was a quick make-shift due to unexpected germination, temps averaged 83-90F at first until I got the air flow fixed. Two or three times temps hit mid-upper 90's because I forgot I had turned off circulation fans. "Night" temps somewhere in the mid-high 70's.

Now in their new home averaging 82-84F lights on and 75F lights off. Temps are running about 3-7F above ambient air temp depending on lights on or off.

RH of Room/cab?
45-60%

Light cycle?
20/4

PH of media or res?
Was high, around 9 after initial transplant at 6 days old due to MUCH too shallow of germing cup. This was due to my mistaken use of hydrated lime (see post in "Indoor Cultivation" forum), now the run-off water pH is ~7.

Any Pests ?
None so far, other than the temp :D

How often are you watering?
When soil gets dry a few inches down. Roughly 3 days.

Type and strength of ferts used?
None so far...have some Mexican bat guano left over from a vegetable garden I had. I believe it is a 10-3-1 mix, should be good for vegging but I understand this FFOF doesn't really need nutes for about a month.

The above basically sums it up so far, wasn't really expecting anything to germinate so it was a mad scramble when they did. Was able to whip something up pretty easily and modified it over two weeks until I built a new cabinet from scratch (gave up finding a freebie on craigslist). It is 4'W X 4'H X 2'D and am running a passive intake system, no pics atm. Still needs some work though but it'll work for now.

This is Lilly (I think that's HER name...positive thinking :) ), it was the runt of the three. I'll post pics up of it as a younger plant later, I'm just happy that it appears to be healthy and growing just fine, doubt it'll catch up to the other two though:

Getting some sun...I give them about 20-30 minutes of sun each day if it's not cloudy and the temp is good (don't want to temp shock them), I figure it can't hurt.


In the cabinet




Freja...Norwegian goddess of fertility (more positive thinking lol)






And Ms. Robinson (Beatles...I figure at least one of these names should work out!)









I think that the internode spacing looks pretty good although I believe I need more lights soon. Tuesday will mark their 3 week birthdays and am hoping to be able to get some preflowers by week 4 with at least ONE being a female, preferably two...I can deal with one being male, two if that's what fate deals me. Three and I will be very disappointed of course.

Since these three plants came from two different strains (purchased bags...one bag was some kind bud, not sure if the other seed is from some good schwag or mids, wasn't K.B. though) and due to their locations in the germination cup (yes, all were in one cup...I learned that lesson lol) I am sure that two of them are the same strain. I think that Lilly and Freja are an indica/sativa hybrid and that Ms. Robinson is an indica based solely on the leaves so far.

They are beginning to have a mild scent to them, not sure if it's because of the strain or just being young but Lilly and Freja seem to have a lighter, fresher (almost citrusy?) smell and Ms. Robinson has a definite skunky odor...another reason I think that SHE is a different strain.

As I said, their new home is not yet complete and I don't really have any pics of it so far. When I get it done I'll post one though so you all can see what I'm dealing with. I originally thought I'd do SCROG but since these are from seed I started leaning more towards LST. However I have read in a small number of threads that even low stress training methods such as these can up the chance of a plant going male so now I'm not sure what to do. If the one is an indica I think it will be ok just letting it grow but I don't think that's the best idea to maximize yield (duh). Has anyone had personal experience with LST causing their plants to change sex or produce more males on average? I am also considering pinching the tops (topping I guess although I'll probably wind up FIM'ing as my hands aren't that steady), I'm used to doing it on some other edible herbs I have grown.

Sorry so long...I like to be detailed when I post to keep questions down to a minimum. Thanks for stopping by!

[Lil Neutrino]

I just noticed that Freja has seven leaflets and Ms. Robinson has five. I saw in an excerpt from one of Jorge Cervantes books online that leaflets can increase to eleven during vegetative growth. Does anyone know at what point the maximum number of leaflets is produced? So far this supports my hunch that they are two different strains but since Lilly is still so small I can't say if she's the same as Freja. Hmmmm...interesting.

Freja and Ms. Robinson are 2" tall, I had to cover some of their stems with soil during transplanting due to the stretching right after germination to ensure that they would be strong enough for what's hopefully to come. Lilly is now about 1-1.25" after I did the same thing to her today. Her stem was starting to become woody but it was too thin imho...hopefully this will help her stiffen up. They've had a little fan blowing on them for almost the entire two and a half weeks to promote stem strength but I think due to Lilly's short stature she hasn't caught enough of the breeze to strengthen up.

[l8tnightskunk]

looking very nice and bushy! keep up the good work! ill stay posted!

[Lil Neutrino]

Thanks skunk! I think I jumped the gun on the leaflet count, just noticed some new growth on Ms. Robinson that also has seven leaflets. Time will tell...also debating if I should put some reflectors on my CFLs. I've seen grow journals with and without them and both seem to turn out fairly well. Decisions decisions :)

[Ms.Fox]

They look great. Looks like they're getting plenty of light. Adding more will be even better. Great work!

[CharlieMopps]

Great looking plant. Indeed you don't need to add nutes for a month or so with ff soil. What do your finances look like and could you save $40-$50 a week for a hps light? You won't need it for a while anyhow. You should also look into a good exhaust fan system as summer is going to make it hotter in there, or do you have an extra a/c unit, that would work too.

[Lil Neutrino]

Thanks Ms. Fox, glad to see you checking in :)

Originally Posted by CharlieMopps

What do your finances look like and could you save $40-$50 a week for a hps light? You won't need it for a while anyhow.

My finances are a wreck right now, I've been unemployed for almost five months now...hence the "poor man's" grow lol. No way in heck I'll be able to afford an HPS for a while, not unless I land a good job in the next few weeks. Besides that limiting factor I am very interested in seeing what I can do with the CFLs. I had a friend who did a SCROG grow last summer who had pretty good results (8-9oz dry) out of a small converted dresser using CFLs. They weren't huge nugs but they did the job nicely

As long as I get 7g dried out of this I'll break even on what I've put in to it...roughly, haven't added up my receipts yet. I think that should be doable out of even one plant although I'm hoping for more and if more than one is female I think that should be no problem.

You should also look into a good exhaust fan system as summer is going to make it hotter in there, or do you have an extra a/c unit, that would work too.

Right now I'm not having too big of issues with the temps considering that I am not turning the A/C on until it gets around 80F inside. Lately though I have been trying to keep it cooler since my temp difference is pretty good (see original post) imho. I have one more PC fan laying around that I can add for a total of three although I can not for the life of me find a CFM rating for it as it's a generic one.

Rough estimate I'd say with all three running I should be moving at least 125CFM...and 100 of that is from the two I already have in there. My internal volume is 32ft^3 not taking in to account the displacement of the fan, boxes, plants, power supply, and pots. So already I am exchanging three times the internal volume of air every minute IF my air flow is good. It should be, my three intakes are in the floor of the cab with two towards the front near the sides and the third in the middle towards the back. The two exhaust fans are up high on the back wall on opposite sides...this looks like it should be providing adequate air movement from all areas of the cabinet. Adding another fan will only help and can easily be done...but again my issue right now is the ambient air temp since I try to run my home's A/C as little as possible. Would be nice if I could afford a small A/C unit just for the cabinet! Donations anyone? lol, j/k

Thanks again everyone for checking this out and the suggestions, I've gotta go for a bit but later this evening I'll try to get some more pics of the setup.

[Lil Neutrino]

As promised...my cabinet, but this is still a work in progress. Just trying to rig it up right now to reduce light leaks and such. Hope to have it refined by the time I go to flowering, shouldn't be a problem.

Nothing fancy, plan to either paint it with some graphics or just cover it and make it look like some kind of "normal" room furniture. Excuse the mess...I'm in about 1/3 of the living area as I was a short while back.

Closed


Open...I still need to tidy up the wiring and stuff but it works for now. You can see one of the two fans I mentioned plus a couple of the intakes (there is a third intake behind the plant on the far left). I mounted the computer PSU with some plumbing strap I've had for a while. I'm quite happy with the noise level, the fans can barely be heard when closed up. Walls are painted white with primer. Temps are holding steady between 78F and 83F with lights on and home A/C set to 78-79F. Need to add some more lights as I mentioned, the plants are starting to bush out enough that I'm having to rotate them once a day to keep the light absorption evened out. Still debating some reflectors, probably will wind up going with some improvised soda cans but I don't have any way to dimple them. Although at this point I think anything is better than nothing.



Thoughts? Suggestions? Constructive criticism?

[Ms.Fox]

Nice set up! The only suggestion I have is to add as much light as you can to keep your plants happy. If ya have the money to add, then go ahead and do it. ;-)

[Lil Neutrino]

I heard that...Wal-Mart had a joke of a selection and prices when I stopped by today. I was also reminded why I hate going there (one of my bi-annual visits)...no matter what state or what time you're always in line for way too long compared to my other preferred stores. I will be adding light very soon, count on that :) I don't necessarily have the money to add new lights but I will make it happen because honestly, I can't afford NOT to

Quick question though...I have been seeing the "mini" CFL's that are the same wattage as their physically larger cousins albeit SLIGHTLY lower lumens. Anyone know if these are as effective? I haven't checked manufacturer websites to see if their mean lumens are comparable to the larger versions yet. For example, the 26W "regulars" I use are 1600 lumens each but the minis are 1570 iirc...not sure where this lands the minis after they have warmed up, the regs seem to drop to around 1400-1500 lumens though. If the minis are just as effective I'll probably wind up going with them as they probably put off less heat and take up less space (easier to make a reflector for too!).

[Lil Neutrino]

Edit: I think I jumped the gun and am a little mixed up about preflowers. I have read THIS thread countless times...should know better! Ah the excitement of a novice, eh? lol

Wow...woke up to a nice surprise this morning, plants are just shy of three weeks old and I believe I have preflowers (Edit: No, I have stipules.) on all of them!!! No indication of sex yet as far as I can tell though.

Getting their 20-30 minutes of daily sun...


Preflowers...not sure which one is which (Freja and Ms. Robinson) in these two:




And little Lilly:

[fuuji0019]

looking very healthy!
Maybe a bit early - but looks like it to me too.

Yeah maybe come up with a new light hanging system for your box, will help them to shoot-up.

[Lil Neutrino]

Thanks for stopping in fuuji! I don't want them to shoot up though, the shorter and bushier the better as I only have about 3' once you factor in pots and lights. The weight of the lights is not enough to stress the wires but I would like to come up with something to enable me to align the lights however I need them, especially since I am soon to double the number of bulbs and get Lilly (the little one) her own set of lights.

My only real concern with the wire right now is that I am quite sure I am exceeding the minimum bend radius ratings with the tight bend at the eye hooks...although honestly I don't see it negatively affecting the wire unless I was constantly bending and rebending in the exact same spot. Originally I intended to have them on a string/chain system where I could raise and lower them like people do with their HID lights...the current system won't work once they start to add a bit more height and bush out as I'll need to strategically place them to maximize light coverage. I have been eyeing the setups where people are using the clamps on their pots or whatever is available with extensions that clamp on to the base of the bulbs...I don't have a link/pic handy to illustrate.

[Lil Neutrino]

Just noticed the following discoloration on Freja...Ms. Robinson has it as well but to a much lesser extent. Anyone have any idea what it might be caused by? I have added zero nutes, just whatever is in the FFOF soil...it doesn't look like a deficiency or a burn mark to me but what do I know? I'm a newb! haha. I'm not freaking out or anything as it is only on two or three leaflets but am curious what it is. Thanks!



Edit: I checked the plant abuse chart HERE and the only thing I see that looks similar is possibly the pH being off. Guess I should order that soil pH tester although my run-off water has been right at 7. If anyone has any other ideas I'd love to hear them.

[Droxster]

i have no clue man...maybe ph level...i dont know
but your plants look sexy and sweet as hell! props