Leaves Clawing Under, Canoeing, Deformed, 4 Fingered & More In Veg

[mrTank]

I have looked and searched around for a few days and found many different possibilities.

I found a lot of information on Nitrogen Toxicity and Dampening Off. I treated the plants for Nitrogen Toxicity by not feeding them for a few days and only using R/O water.

Actually, I first treated them Dampening Off, then Nitrogen Toxicity.

I got some Root Cleaner for treating Dampening Off (in case that in fact was the culprit). I used it the first day as a soak. Didn't seem to change much. Then I re-inoculated the plants with beneficial microbes and started treating them for Nitrogen Toxicity.

I am about 8 weeks into Veg and this started happening.

This is only my second grow. My first grow turned out to be problem-free and was beautiful. I grow in a clean area. Never had any pest problems except for a few gnats every so often. But I get rid of them pretty fast. I like to stay as organic and possible.

I grow for a co-op that donates to patients who cannot afford their meds. I do not use any of the finished product for myself. Just trying to help out a friend and a group he is a part of.

I have been Vegging for a few months on this grow (and the last grow) so I can top and train the plants to a desired size.

I work from home, so I am always around and always tend to the plants on time.

Some Dark Green Leaves, Some Curled Under, Some Deformed, Some Discolored.

Feeding using Roots Organics 5ml Program. Have completely Stopped Feeding for 2 days and just watering with plain R/O water. The R/O water comes out with good pH and has never given me any issues.

Temp and Humidity are fine. I recently got an A/C that has raised thr Humidity to around 50% (was 18% before and for last grow). One thing I noticed is that after watering/feeding, the plants don't dry as fast and have had some stagnant water in the saucers a few times.

I have a lot invested into this grow and I am really frustrated.

No Bugs or Pests.

I thought maybe a Root Problem or Lockout.

Please give any advice you can.

Soil is a Coco/HappyFrog/Perlite Mix.



PLEASE Help Me.

 

[mrTank]

re: Leaves Clawing Under, Canoeing, Deformed, 4 Fingered & More In Veg

• Half of the plants are ICED Grapefruit (Sativa Dominant Hybrids) and the other half are P.B.O.G. (Indica Dominant Hybrids) Hybrids.
• There are 8 Plants Total.
• 8 Weeks in Veg.
• Indoor.
• Soil.
• Coco/HappyFrog/Perlite Mix.
• 2x 200w Mars II's (with Veg switch only, only running @ 100w each).
• 78°F
• 50% RH
• No Pests.
• pH @6.4
• Was watering once a day until I got an A/C that bumped the RH up to 50%RH (from 13%RH).
• ----- - Last grow I was supplementing with a Humidifier and RH was @30%RH throughout grow (Veg to Flower).
• ----- - RH was @30% the first 6 weeks of this grow and then I got the A/C and it is now @50%RH.
• With the RH higher, only been watering every 2 days.
• Using Roots Organics 5ml Program. Regular Strength nutrients.

LH&R

 

[masonman]

• Half of the plants are ICED Grapefruit (Sativa Dominant Hybrids) and the other half are P.B.O.G. (Indica Dominant Hybrids) Hybrids.
• There are 8 Plants Total.
• 8 Weeks in Veg.
• Indoor.
• Soil.
• Coco/HappyFrog/Perlite Mix.
• 2x 200w Mars II's (with Veg switch only, only running @ 100w each).
• 78°F
• 50% RH
• No Pests.
• pH @6.4
• Was watering once a day until I got an A/C that bumped the RH up to 50%RH (from 13%RH).
• ----- - Last grow I was supplementing with a Humidifier and RH was @30%RH throughout grow (Veg to Flower).
• ----- - RH was @30% the first 6 weeks of this grow and then I got the A/C and it is now @50%RH.
• With the RH higher, only been watering every 2 days.
• Using Roots Organics 5ml Program. Regular Strength nutrients.

LH&R

That is a very dark leaf, but I'm not convinced it's N toxicity. Especially in veg.

The items above in bold caught my attention.

In my opinion, you've been watering too much. If they truly need water that often, then they are root-bound and need to be transplanted to a larger container.

There are two main goals in vegging out a plant. One is to grow a root system that can sustain the plant through flower, and the other is to cultivate it to the shape we would like it to take in flower.

How do we build the root system?
By letting the soil dry out between waterings in veg. Dry to the point the plant just starts to wilt slightly. Then, completely drench the soil. I fill a container larger than the pot to 3/4 the way to the top of the pot with water and soak it for around 5 minutes. Then drain completely. How ever you do it, just make sure you saturate the soil, drain completely, then let the soil dry out before next watering.

Second thing that caught my eye was your PH. I'm not familiar with the mix of your grow medium, but I've heard coco needs to be treated like hydro as far as PH is concerned. I think your PH is too high. I will defer to others with more experience though.

Let your pot dry out completely between waterings and verify the correct PH for your medium. I think you'll be in good shape.

Here is a picture of me drenching a plant in veg...

Notice the "wilt" to the leaves. It's not really the leaves that wilted, rather the stems holding the leaves. When I pull the pot out, the draining water will suck air into the soil. The roots love this.

If you cannot drench the plant like this, maybe you can pour 1/3 the water down the top, and the rest in the saucer to wick up into the soil.

Hoping the best for your girls... Keep us posted.

 

[mrTank]

That is a very dark leaf, but I'm not convinced it's N toxicity. Especially in veg.

The items above in bold caught my attention.

In my opinion, you've been watering too much. If they truly need water that often, then they are root-bound and need to be transplanted to a larger container.

There are two main goals in vegging out a plant. One is to grow a root system that can sustain the plant through flower, and the other is to cultivate it to the shape we would like it to take in flower.

How do we build the root system?
By letting the soil dry out between waterings in veg. Dry to the point the plant just starts to wilt slightly. Then, completely drench the soil. I fill a container larger than the pot to 3/4 the way to the top of the pot with water and soak it for around 5 minutes. Then drain completely. How ever you do it, just make sure you saturate the soil, drain completely, then let the soil dry out before next watering.

Second thing that caught my eye was your PH. I'm not familiar with the mix of your grow medium, but I've heard coco needs to be treated like hydro as far as PH is concerned. I think your PH is too high. I will defer to others with more experience though.

Let your pot dry out completely between waterings and verify the correct PH for your medium. I think you'll be in good shape.

Here is a picture of me drenching a plant in veg...

Notice the "wilt" to the leaves. It's not really the leaves that wilted, rather the stems holding the leaves. When I pull the pot out, the draining water will suck air into the soil. The roots love this.

If you cannot drench the plant like this, maybe you can pour 1/3 the water down the top, and the rest in the saucer to wick up into the soil.

Hoping the best for your girls... Keep us posted.

First of all:

Thank You for taking the time to read and respond to my post.

I think you're spot-on with the Over-Watering.

My first grow, I watered every 24-hours.

Before you say anything, I live in an area where the RH is down to 9% sometimes. It is super dry here. Right now, it is around 15%RH. Before I got the A/C, the watering once a day is what I got used to. I would water about 15% run-off into my saucer and it would be gone within an hour.

When I started the A/C, I was still watering once or twice a day. I actually switched to twice a day because the humidity was now at 50%RH in my Veg Room. Watering every two days seemed like a stretch to me because I've been used to watering a lot more often. I never fed everyday, but water was something I had to give the plants so they wouldn't dry out and die. I remember having to go spend the night at the hospital one night and the next day when I came back, all my plants were bone-dry, wilting and dropping leaves.

I let my plants dry out and then tried this stuff called Root Cleaner. Ridiculously expensive, but I was out of ideas.

I drenched everything pretty well and let them sit until they were dried out (with no A/C). Then I watered just enough to barely show any run-off with about half strength P-K (no Nitrogen because I too was worried about the darkness). I re-inoculated my plants per the Root Cleaner directions and today my plants are showing improvement.

Because this is only the first time I had a problem like this, I don't know if it in fact was the Root Cleaner that helped or not. I watched the video for the product and it seemed to make sense, but who knows.

I want to think the Root Cleaner helped, but we'll never know unless it happens again I guess.

I do know that it didn't make my situation any worse though, so that's a plus.

I think it was a watering problem like you had suggested. Letting them dry out and then watering them was great advice. And you explaining it to me that way really helped me understand it a lot better than all the books and posts I'd gone through before posting here.

I live and grow in a very odd environment. I had no clue that the A/C would really make that much of a difference (in regards to that many days between waterings).

Everything is on the up-and-up now. I will post back when they've returned to their normal state, or if there are any other changes.

Thanks again Brother.

LH&R

-mrTank

 

[mrTank]

Re: Leaves Clawing Under, Canoeing, Deformed, 4 Fingered & More In Veg

I have come to the conclusion that over watering is what I did to cause this, but now the probkems are mites. Spider Mites, Russet Mites and Broad Mites.

I don't know if I have all 3. I am 100% sure i have Slider Mites though because of the calling cards they've been leaving on my leaves.

I don't eany to have to trash these plants unless absolutely necessary. I was thinking that I could could kill two birds with one stone by trying out a new product and writing a journal on my experience with it to help others out.

I have heard a lot of buzz around a new product called Green Cleaner and Root Cleaner (I think that's their names, I'll have to check the bottles again in a sec). The majority of the reviews seem good, but then there are some that seem not-so-good. It's hard to tell because there's no way to know if people are using it properly or if they are just haters posting spam or vice versa.

Anyone else interested in these products?

Interested in knowing if they work?

I can do it here or in a journal. Whatever you guys think is best. I already dropped $100 on both the root drench and the foliage spray cleaner, so it's really no problem for me.

LH&R

 

[masonman]

Sorry to hear about the mites. Just keep after them, you'll get 'em!!!

 

[mollifier]

Neem oil/soap spray fucking wrecked the mites I had, its cheap too

 

[mrTank]

Neem oil/soap spray fucking wrecked the mites I had, its cheap too

Thank you soooo much for the reply.

The only thing about neem, is that I am allergic to it. I get really really itchy after using it.

I've tried a couple soaps and it just wouldn't do the trick. I followed many different tutorials online that showed different methods too. Either I didn't do it correctly or the mites weren't affected as much as they should've been.

I know that the pests can develop immunities to different applications and treatments. I just wanted to be safe and make sure I used something that would cover everything.

I really enjoy testing out new/newer products. So I got the Green Cleaner and the Root Cleaner to see what I could do to add to any proof that currently exists.

I'll just post the results here.

Thanks again for the help.


=LH&R=

-mrTank

 

[mrTank]

Green Cleaner Works ! ! !

I tested out the Green Cleaner (on the leaves) earlier and then took some photos.

This stuff really works. I got photos to prove it too! Great Cleaner is my new best friend.

I not only of the dead bugs, but of their crap and all the damage they did to my leaves.

I will post some more after I do the Root drench.

EDIT: Can anyone point out exactly what type/version of mites these are? The little balls look like they'd be eggs? The little black spots are poop? Then there seems to be at least 2 different mites?

I'll pull some more leaves tomorrow before I rinse them and take some more photos. It's late here and I was really excited to find all these murdered pests under my leaves and wanted to make sure I got something posted before I passed out.

Anyone know what this one is (below)​

I will try to repost better and clearer ones later.

And I'll take photos after the Root drench.

This stuff was worth it. Everything has been wiped out. I haven't found a single living mite it bug in my space.

I followed the directions and then did a few other things that I thought would help.

I'll post them in the next one.

Really stoked!


=LH&R=

-mrTank