New Grower - Yellowing and drying of bottom leaves

[MysticMisfit]

Hi guys, so I just registered and this is my first post, ever! I've basically just started growing this precious plant because honestly the kind that me and my friends buy are basically quite low quality I think. Mostly because they always contain loads of seeds, which I heard ruins bud development as the plant focuses more on the seeds once they show up. Besides, who wouldn't want to grow their own buds?

Anyways, to the point. I germinated 3 Silver Auto Haze seeds, all of which sprouted. Long story short, 1 died probably due to pests (found it snapped in half with woodlice crawling all over it), while the other two are still alive. Woo. Currently my problem is that the bottom leaves have started to yellow and dry up (I'll include photos at the end). I noticed this happened after I watered it with some nutes. The next day or two it showed signs of yellowing. Currently they have just finished their 3rd week, and I think I haven't given them nutes for about a week now.

Details about the setup;

Soil - I used soil from our backyard, which apparently was brought from near a carob tree in a field/the wild. Mixed this with perlite and white peat. Unfortunately the pH seems to be slightly higher than one would want; 7.2-7.5; this seems to never change no matter how much I lower the pH of the water going in (dropping it to like 4.3 and the run off is just always 7.2.

Pots; I'm using 11L fabric pots (heard these help loads with drainage).

Nutrients; I bought Advanced nutrients Micro, grow and bloom, + voodoo juice, vit B52, Big Bud and Overdrive. I also have pH UP and DOWN to alter the pH levels as needed.

Charlotte and Emily are basically being left outside in a sort of greenhouse I made, exposed to natural sunlight only. It's currently November, and I live roughly in the Southern part of the Mediterranean. Temperatures currently are 25-21C in the day, 14-19C during the night. Sunlight is somewhat of a problem, as the only places I can grow them are on either side of the house (at least if I want to keep them hidden from the neighbours), which means unless I'm home and shift them from one side to the other (which can actually get them up to like maybe 9-10 hours of light), they might get a maximum of 5 hours of light a day (I read somewhere they need at least a minimum of 4 hours of direct sunlight to live). Currently I brought them inside because I discovered that in the afternoon they get more light than they do in the morning in a particular spot by a window.

As for a feeding regime, I read an autoflower guide, which said to add about 0.5ml (25% recommended dose by company) of Micro, grow and bloom per litre of water when it comes to feeding them, and to always include 0.5ml voodoo juice and Vit B52 per litre. I roughly give them each about 1 litre of water with each watering. As for frequency of watering, I'm roughly watering between 4 to 7 days, depending on how dry the soil is.

Anyways, like I mentioned, when I gave it the second feed (at like 1.5 weeks? Also I always water right about dawn before I go to work, like 1 hour before sunrise) Charlotte (which is older by two days from potting) was wilting by the time I got home, which was like 13 hours post feed/water, and the cotyledons where yellowing/drying up. Emily seems to have fared better, while still having yellowing of leaves, she never wilted, and the yellowing seems much slower than what Charlotte's was. Since then (this is the end of week 3) I have only fed with normal water (I'm alternating between boiled tap water [to get rid of excess chlorine] and bottled drinking water). The yellowing/drying then just started working it's way upwards, to the older leaves. New leaves seem to be absolutely fine.

Now from what I have read, there could be a few reasons why this has happened;

1; Nute burn is what I first suspected, considering it happened literally straight after the second feed.
2; Possibly a Nitrogen deficiency, BUT the whole leaves/leaf do/does not turn yellow, but more it works it's way up and dries up immediately as it yellows.
3; pH levels are screwed up; run off water is almost always 7.2, no matter how much pH down I add (bringing the pH down to even 4.3). Even if I don't alter the pH of the water and it's like, 9, the pH of the run off is 7.3 due to the buffering. However looking at the pH/nutrient availability chart, 7.2 doesn't seem to be in a bad place since all nutrients are still available, perhaps simply not as efficient as it could be.
4; Over watering; I saw some pictures of over watering which lead to the leaves going somewhat yellow from the bottom, Charlotte's leaves are somewhat droopy at the bottom, however the upper ones perk up just fine when the sun comes up. Emily doesn't seem to have any problems with drooping (at least when the sun is up) apart from the leaves which are half yellow/dry.

Also, oddly enough, Emily's cotyledons are still intact, and she seems to be growing better than Charlotte is (which is the opposite of how things were in the beginning). I tried brushing against the completely dried up leaves, hoping they would fall of, since I heard it's pointless them being there, but the buggers won't fall off and I'm afraid of tugging at them. Also, yellowing has started to occur on other leaves at the very tips, however it is much slower than what it what before, I think. I only just took photos, so i can't really compare :/

As a side note, Charlotte's soil is also far more compact since I poured the water rather too quickly the first time round. Emily's feels far more airy/light since I pour water onto my hand first to lessen the force at which it hits the soil. That's how I water them now.

Any advice/help would be greatly appreciated! Personally I'm thinking it's just a nute burn and I need to wait it out, but you guys are probably more experienced than me and have dealt with this before, so I'm open to other possible suggestions

These are Charlotte and Emily, respectively;

 

[Kriaze]

Welcome to Seedlings don't need nutes for around 2 to 3 weeks but when you start start them very slowly, and not much water too

 

[MysticMisfit]

Thanks for the input! So probably it's mostly due to nute burn, and maybe a tad overwatering. They're also quite short (I think?), but considering I'm using natural sunlight during winter that's to be expected (apart from the nute burn which must have slowed growth down somewhat). Thankfully our winters can still be quite sunny From what I've mentioned, do you think there are some things I should change, or maybe some advice? I've heard some people say that you need to be very precise with certain things whiles others say to just try and read your plant and go with the flow.

 

[Kriaze]

All I would say is take it easy when giving them nutrients. I've used AN Micro, Grow and Bloom myself and they're excellent nutrients but you would not want to feed them the amount listed on the bottles/feed chart on their site, probably half those amounts at best. One other thing is that they're chelated too which means that there is more leeway when it comes to the nutrient's availability to the plant so you won't really need to mess about so much with PH up and down.

If you do PH then it's best to have a slight variation throughout the PH range, say between 6.1 to 6.9 but only in gentle fluctuations as in gradually rising from one range to the next, plants don't cope with PH swings very well. Saying that though as I said you may not even need to bother measuring PH, I didn't need to in the end

 

[MysticMisfit]

Thanks for the reply Kriaze! Sorry it's taken so long to get back, not been using the PC much as of late. Great to know I don't need to fluctuate my pH levels much, I'll just keep them around 6.5 then if possible. It's been about 2 weeks since I last fed, or watered them (they aren't dropping and still perking up when the sun's out), however the top soil is dry and doesn't feel damp/moist till about an inch and a half in. I'm going to give them another feed tomorrow morning before I leave for work, probably about 500ml of drinking water, with about .25ml of AN micro, grow and bloom each per litre. Keeping it a light feed seeing how I burnt them last time, and see how it goes from there. Also, it's flowering time for Emily! She's 5 weeks old to the day. Probably rather stunted (putting that mildly) for her age, but I'm putting it down to nute burn and she wasn't getting much sunlight in the beginning.

 

[JonsGrowTech]

theyre being watered too often

 

[MysticMisfit]

Watered too often? Even if I haven't watered them in 2 weeks? The browning was from a nute burn I gave them because I fed them too much at a young age. It hasn't increased lately, just the old leaves that got burnt are slowly withering away since they're beyond repair.

 

[JonsGrowTech]

depends on the conditions. How warm it is in the grow area, how big the pots are, the humidity, etc. As long as you are letting them get dry before watering them again then you are not over watering. The soil should be noticeably lighter in weight when you water it. Maybe this is not your issue but that's what it looks like just thought id throw it out there.

 

[MysticMisfit]

I get what you mean. Temperatures were roughly between 22-24 in the shade (now it's about 19/20 in the day since it's getting cloudy and raining during the night), at night it was dropping to about 19, but being in their own little greenhouse I suppose the temperature may manage to stay a little higher. Humidity is quite high in my country all year round since everywhere is close to the sea. Pots are quite large for their size, 11L fabric pots, but That's because I heard it's better to plant autos in their final destination immediately rather than transfer them to another.

The initial problem I think was a combo of nute burn and overwatering, it's why I gave them like 2-3 weeks without anything.

 

[CanniCulture]

Mystic, I really like how you're so detailed with your information! Like everyone else has said above, the problem is for sure a mix between over watering and Nute burn.

You're doing nothing wrong.. You're just doing it at the wrong time!

Seedlings and your short little sprout there are trying to grow its roots into the soil as deep as it can. Understand that until the roots are deep into the soil, as in toward the bottom of the pot. (Which you can't see, but you can judge based on the size of the pot/plant.

If your roots are not long enough to hit the bottom of the pot yet, then you could have a large amount of standing water in your soil that's not being taken up by your plant.. You can see the top layer of the soil and a couple inches in and feel like it's dry.. But it can very well not be. I planted a seedling just a few weeks ago. In the first 3 weeks I watered it ONE time and it was perfect. Every day I looked closely at the leaves to try and read any drooping or anything.

The Point I'm trying to make is, sometimes it's better to NOT water and let them get a little too dry before you water again. And you for sure, don't want to set a specific schedule on watering everyone few days etc. you'll find it'll change drastically. So really pay attention to what the soil/plant is showing signs of.


And Finally.. Your nutes are just not needed yet! Advanced Nutes are wonderful, you went in the right direction there... But you should plant them, and let them do their own thing.. I usually stay away from nutes until 3rd week or I feel the plant really needs it (which usually never happens). I know it's hard, I had the same problem early in my grow life.. It's hard to stop feeding but just like the water situation.. Less is more during the early stages.. Luckily your plant looks like it'll come along just fine.

Great job so far, and great detailed request for help! I hope everything goes well and I look forward to an update!


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[MysticMisfit]

Thanks Canni! (Or Culture? CC maybe?) That's pretty much what I'm going to do from now on, not give anything until AFTER the plant shows it needs something. It's pretty much my first grow so I'm quite over enthusiastic about the whole thing, which is part of the problem. So I'm taking a back seat and let the plant make the decisions. I gave it a feed a few days ago, and both Emily and Charlotte seem to have taken well to it. No signs of (further) nute burn, and they aren't drooping or folding upwards. I'll just wait until they let me know when they're hungry/thirsty.

I read some other help request threads and members who were trying to help always asked for more information, since the more they're given the more they can accurately pinpoint what the problem is. So rather than wait for people to ask me I figured I'd tell all I know and then add anything I may have forgotten later.

Thanks for the advice I'll try to bear all this in mind with my next grow.

Also, can I ask, how important is it to maintain a temperature of say, 20-29 celsius? I'm growing them in a glass box thing outisde, covered by clear plastic which I can easily pull off to access them. It's 1m2 (area wise, can't make the proper 2 symbol with my keyboard) and maybe say 40-50cm in height. Would a 1ft 40Watt tube heater make any difference whatsoever if outside temps go to around 5-10Celsius? Currently lowest is around 10/15 at night.

 

[Kriaze]

Trying to keep the plants within 10F of day temps at night is good for the plant so if you can stabilise that you will be rewarded when it comes to harvest. Anything below 10 degrees C at night and you stand the chance of them dying, hope this helps

 

[MysticMisfit]

Thanks again Kriaze! Lately for the past couple of weeks the highs have been 20-22C, with lows of 15-18C (according to an outside thermometer we have and my weather app), and should remain like that for a few weeks. That's roughly between a 5-10F drop, so shouldn't be too bad. The temperature might actually be somewhat higher in the actual greenhouse since the plants are being kept out of the elements, need to put a thermometer in there to find that out.

Thanks for the tip about the temps going below 10C. Currently I'm looking for some heaters that I can possibly put in the greenhouse/hotbox/whatever it's called to keep the temperature up during the night, and possibly day if it ever comes to that. These were planted mid-October though, and supposedly flower 8-10 weeks from being planted, meaning that they should be ready for harvest anywhere from the end of November till mid-December. Temperature shouldn't really be a problem during that period, since our Decembers can still be quite sunny. It's mid-January all the way through to March where it gets pretty cold for us because of wind, rain and humidity (and even then, according to annual statistics, the lowest it usually gets in Winter is a low of 13C).

Now that I have my small greenhouse settled, I'm contemplating trying to grow some plants in the Winter season if I can manage to ever convince my dad to let me install a heater in there. Found a 4 foot tube heater which should help to keep them nice and toasty, and it's 300W so it shouldn't use up "much" electricity. Besides, I'd be paying for it anyways. But ah well. Dude is quite stubborn and likes to play his authority card. Maybe one day.

 

[klahsfhuwfhy]

Mystic how about horse manure! Victorians used them (hot beds) to grow pineapples in cold England, they can raise temperatures by 10c in a greenhouse


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[The Germinator]

Thanks for the reply Kriaze! Sorry it's taken so long to get back, not been using the PC much as of late. Great to know I don't need to fluctuate my pH levels much, I'll just keep them around 6.5 then if possible. It's been about 2 weeks since I last fed, or watered them (they aren't dropping and still perking up when the sun's out), however the top soil is dry and doesn't feel damp/moist till about an inch and a half in. I'm going to give them another feed tomorrow morning before I leave for work, probably about 500ml of drinking water, with about .25ml of AN micro, grow and bloom each per litre. Keeping it a light feed seeing how I burnt them last time, and see how it goes from there. Also, it's flowering time for Emily! She's 5 weeks old to the day. Probably rather stunted (putting that mildly) for her age, but I'm putting it down to nute burn and she wasn't getting much sunlight in the beginning.

Did you use cfl bulbs? Good lighting for veg if you can't afford an expensive one. My plants are six weeks old.. I have pics posted but not sure if you can find and see them .good luck

 

[MysticMisfit]

@Kernowdave; OMG I had no idea about those! I might actually be able give them some extra heat now! I wonder if pig manure would be as effective as horse manure (we actually have a pig so that would be easy enough to collect).

@Dugy; I'm just using mother nature's big light bulb. Nothing artificial. Was thinking about bringing them in during the night and putting them under cfls, but my dad would have a cow if he ever found out that I kept the lights on all night, so artificial lighting is out of the question for me unfortunately. I found your pics from your gallery, the girl in your latest pic is looking fiiiiiine! Did you use the sun shields that people use to protect their car dashboards (looks like an awesome idea) to maximise light?

Also here's on update on Charlotte and Emily! (Emily is the one who is wider and has the smaller bud hairs, or the last two pics for easier reference.) Honestly they seem to be improving now. The only thing I noticed is that their stems have gone really white and thinned down in a section, but I think that was due to my attempt at LST, and the garden wire I used was causing friction along the stem. So I simply removed the wire, and might try LST on my next growing attempt. With any luck I'll have learnt from my mistakes and my babies will be longer and have thicker stems by the time I should start the LST. They were pretty thin in the beginning and even brown/purplish in colour. My guess is that was from stretching for light in the very beginning and probably the nute burn.

 

[The Germinator]

Did you use cfl bulbs? Good lighting for veg if you can't afford an expensive one. My plants are six weeks old.. I have pics posted but not sure if you can find and see them.

Yes,those are car windshield reflectors. One dollar each at dollar store. I lined my hydro grow room with them.

 

[MysticMisfit]

GUYS! I REALLY NEED HELP NOW!

Or, not?

See, I hadn't gone up to see my ladies for about 3-4 days. Usually I have a look at them everyday, but being overtired from work, and a weekend of partying, I kinda slacked a bit. Next thing I knew, I found them wilting to the ground, and the oldest leaves were yellow AF. First thing that came to mind was a nitrogen deficiency, so I topped them up with some water and nutes.

They kinda stayed the same, (from say 5 days ago, though they perked up a little) but I also noticed that some of the white hairs went a little brown/amber. I also read somewhere that it's normal for the plant to start yellowing when it reaches the term of flowering. This being an autoflower, it could happen anywhere between 60-80 days if I'm mistaken. Roughly I may be into 60+ days. So, my question is, are they done? This is my first time growing, and I started with maybe 3-4 hours of light a day for the first few weeks, which I found out are the most important as it's vegetative growth which bulks up the plants, and close to Winter, so I wasn't expecting anything grand from them. I'll try again in late February/March when I have much more sunshine and the heat is, well, hot. I'm probably ranting right now, but my question is, should I harvest now? Trichomes seem pretty milky white, with some hairs being totally amber/brown.

Being so small in size, I have no idea if the lack of photosynthesis caused the buds to not mature fully. I'm looking for some advice to see if I should simply harvest this (now?), dry/cure it, and then see what happens? (Maybe I may get enough for 1 joint, or 2 even, if I apply an unhealthy amount of tobacco). The photos may be a bit blurry, so I don't know how much use they can be.

 

[The Germinator]

I would say no. Not done. Do you have a microscope?


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[Kriaze]

You should never give any cannabis plant only 4 hours of light a day MysticMisfit you had it the wrong way around. Some people run autoflowers on a light schedule of 20/4 which is 20 hours of light and 4 hours of dark, another schedule would be 18/6, 18 hours of light then 6 hours of darkness. We try and simulate the plant's natural environment, and Cannabis doesn't grow naturally anywhere (that I am aware of) where there is only 4 hours light in the day.

By the time that plant dried out as it is you would have nothing to smoke, maybe enough to fill the end of a joint if you're lucky. I'd suggest giving the plant another couple of weeks at least of good feed, light and growth time and see how it is. Otherwise you may well find that this grow will just be a part of the learning curve but without the smoke. If you feel that it won't be worthwhile it may be best to just pull it up and start afresh, but make sure that you know exactly what you are doing or the end result will be the same, maybe have a read of some of the journals on here so you can see how others grow. Engage in conversation and ask questions, pretty much most of the people on here are friendly and will try to help you out. I'm no great grower but if I had known that you were only using 4 hours of light per day I would definitely have offered you any advice that you needed, I'm just sorry that it's too late...or is it? Personally I'd keep going with this plant as a tester, plant another alongside it if I could. All the best