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Thread: Serious Seeds Passing off feminized seeds as regular seeds (unstable genetics hermaph

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    420 Member Greenhouse250's Avatar
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    Serious Seeds Passing off feminized seeds as regular seeds (unstable genetics hermaph

    Here's the emails that were sent to me in this regards


    This started on 31 july 2012 bought the seeds and started the germ right away. All the seed turned out to be female but one. About two weeks after showing himself now has female preflowers. I was suspicious at the fact that there was only one male (hermi)? Another member (Greenfingers) also had this problem all females but one male(hermi). Not only is there two counts of this that i know of, but he bought (GF) his seeds a year ago. If that's not proof i don't know what is!!





    #1

    Dear ,

    thank you for your email.

    We will surely read it, but because there are so many mails, the answer
    sometimes may take a week or longer.

    Simon - Serious Seeds


    info@seriousseeds.com

    Serious Seeds ( - the very best)
    The Netherlands







    #2 HI, !

    Thanks for contacting us.

    We from Serious Seeds strive to make all our customers seriously happy and
    therefore we guarantee the germination of our seeds.

    First of all I want to say, that it is correct that our regular seeds come
    in packs of 11 seeds. They never came in pack of tens, they ALWAYS come in
    packs of 11 seeds (and the feminized always come in packs of six seeds).

    Secondly, we have to make sure that it is our original genetics, because we
    have had the case of copy-cats, selling inferior seeds as our genetics in
    similar packaging (they even copied our packaging, thast why we changed it
    last year).
    Such a company is Ontario Seedbank...we have blacklisted them on our
    homepage after they admitted selling thier own seeds as ours...

    What follows is a standard email, which is sent to people who experience
    problems with our seeds. Please answer the questions below as good as you
    can, I have already filled in the info you provided, but we need more info.

    You also state that you had a hermaphroditic plant. This is virtually
    impossible out of our genetics. Simon has stressed all our strains in any
    way conceiveable in order to be sure no hermaphroditic traits are left.

    Please make pictures of the hernie and send them to me.

    We are sorry for the problems you had with Serious Seeds, despite the effort
    we put into making the best seeds possible.

    We want our customers to be happy with Serious Seeds. That is why we
    constantly make fresh seeds and select only the best and most healthy seeds
    to sell.

    If the germination is done right everybody will have good results 99% of
    the time. We advise the paper towel method as this has the best changes of
    germination. Straight in soil has a far lesser change for several reasons,
    and putting the seeds in a glass of water (first) is also less succesful.

    If no seed at all has germinated, then the seeds may have dried out while
    germinating. This kills the seeds instantly, and there should always be a
    plastic sheet over the plate with the wet towel to prevent that.

    There may be other reasons for not germinating, but the mean thing is that
    we (unlike other seedcompanies) guarantee the quality of our seeds, because
    we know how good they are.

    So, we do send new seeds to people with problems, but we need to check if
    you really bought our seeds, and also like to know what possibly went wrong.

    Please read and answer the questions below as well as you can.

    Can you tell me:
    1) What is the name of strain you bought, and the name of the shop were you
    bought the seeds?
    AK-47 regular, ?
    2) About when did you buy them, the date more or less?
    ?
    3) What is the serial number on the package?
    ?
    4) How many seeds were in the package?
    11
    5) How many seeds did you try, and how many germinated?
    11, 11
    6) Which germination method did you use?
    ?
    7) If your problem was not about germination, please tell us in short what
    your problem was?
    All plants were female but one was a hermaphrodite
    8) Send us an address where we can send new seeds to, if you qualify for a
    replacement.
    ?






    #3 HI, !



    Thanks for answering all the questions.

    Please send us some more pics of the your suspected hermie.

    I would like to see a pic of the whole plant (overview pic) and some additional detail-shots of mixed sex-organs (=pollen sacks and female flowers).

    The one pic you sent does NOT necessarily show a hermaphrodite.


    It could be a complete sex-reversal common in cannabis.

    The AK-47 produces very large preflowers and is sometimes mistakenly identified as female plant before it develops its true male organs.

    Once the sex-reversal has happened the plant should grow into a full-fledged male plant without any female budding happening.

    Thats why i am asking for more pics, i have to see multiple sites with female flowers developing alongside the male pollensacks...

    Aloha, Thomas.

    (Marketing-Manager Serious Seeds)




    The serious seeds hermi






    Please somebody tell me in what world is this not a hermi!? I would like to hear some growers thoughts on this. Anyone how wants to add to this if they have had similar experiences. Thank you

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    420 Member Greenhouse250's Avatar
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    Re: Serious Seeds Passing off feminized seeds as regular seeds (unstable genetics her

    UPDATE: so I'm going to hold off on posting the 4th email till i get my seeds, then I'll post it up!

    Looks like Serious Seeds is going to make this right, after that last email i had Major doubts.

  3. #3
    420 Member GreeenFingers's Avatar
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    Re: Serious Seeds Passing off feminized seeds as regular seeds (unstable genetics her

    I seem to be getting a good response too

    I'll let you know how it all works out as soon as there is an end result ha ha


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    420 Member Greenhouse250's Avatar
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    Re: Serious Seeds Passing off feminized seeds as regular seeds (unstable genetics her

    UPDATE: Serious has a good feeling that i might of bought counterfeit seeds! I should know in the next day or so. They have still sent me seeds, witch is huge! This whole thing has put a sour taste in my mouth. If it turns out that they were counterfeit, i will post the company name.

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    420 Member Greenhouse250's Avatar
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    Re: Serious Seeds Passing off feminized seeds as regular seeds (unstable genetics her

    This has been real fun! So in fact i do have genuine Serious Seeds.. I guess this just came down to quality control.

    Will know more by monday...

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    420 Member GreeenFingers's Avatar
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    Re: Serious Seeds Passing off feminized seeds as regular seeds (unstable genetics her

    Hello Greenhouse250

    As promised, here is the conversation about the hermaphrodite plant between Myself and Simon + Thomas from Serious seeds.

    I must state here that Serious Seeds were as helpful as I could have possibly imagined and are completely willing to do everything possible to help their customers with any problem. They 100% stand confidently by their solid genetics and great care seems to go into their development.

    A seed Company / Breeder we can be sure to trust, I know I now do

    I hope some of you find this interesting, it is quite a large post so this is an early warning of it being quite a long Read

    Hello Serious Seeds,

    I am writing to you as I have recently germinated a whole 11 pack of Regular AK47 seeds to which 10 Germinated and 9 of those Female. The one remaining plant was a Triploid/Hermaphrodite which is my reason for writing to you today.I was really hoping to result in having a male as I have wanted to cross these genetics as the smoke quality is one of my all time faveroutes, this was my intention in buying the Regular seed pack but I resulted in all females and one Hermie which leaves me to believe that the entire pack was Femanised rather than Regular or possibly a little unstable ? I am a member of 420 Magazine so there are pictures to document the Hermaphrodite/Triploid as it happened If you need it for any reason. I have also encountered another member of 420 Magazine who had all Female and 1 late showing Herm so I do not know if this a common occurrence. I bought the seed pack while in Amsterdam about a year ago from \'\'ASG GIFTS SEED SUPPLIES\'\' I made sure of getting the real genetics, and kept them in refrigerated storage to preserve them until they were needed.I still have the original packaging If it is needed.

    I am greatly appreciative of your assistance and eagerly await your response

    HI, GreeenFingers!

    Thanks for contacting us.

    The other 420-member, already contacted us about his case, and I asked him to send some pics of the plant in question.

    Please send us pics of the plant you are thinking is a hermaphrodite.

    First of all, I want to clear up some things.

    You write that one plant was a triploid/hermphrodite.

    Those are two very different things!

    A triploid is like a 4 leafed clover, just a freak of nature, a natural mutation.
    A triploid plant is actually very good, because it developes an extra budding-site at every knot. Each third sidebranch growing out of a knot is an extra bonus given by nature.

    Then you have hermaphrodites, which are plants developing both sex-organs (=male pollen-sacks and female flowers) at the same time.
    This is also occurring in nature with two-sexed plant genuses like cannabis, as a survival instinct.
    If no males are around in a population and autum is coming then a female plant will reverse to develope male pollen sacks and inseminate itself in order to produce seeds and survive until the next growing season.
    This natural emergency program is inherent to cannabis plants and can be minimized by selecting the proper plants after stressing them.

    Simon says he has stressed his strains in every way conceiveable and never had them turn hermaphrodite, therefore we are very surprised by your issues.

    Please fill in the missing information (=where there is a questiomark) to answer the questions:

    1) What is the name of strain you bought, and the name of the shop were you
    bought the seeds?

    2) About when did you buy them, the date more or less?

    3) What is the (handwritten) number on the package?

    4) How many seeds were in the package?

    5) How many seeds did you try, and how many germinated?

    6) Which germination method did you use?

    7) If your problem was not about germination, please tell us in short what your problem was?

    8) Send us an address where we can send new seeds to, if you qualify for a replacement.

    Aloha, Thomas.
    (Marketing-Manager Serious Seeds)
    Hello Thomas,

    Thank you for replying so quickly it is very much appreciated.

    There are 3 pictures attached

    I do understand the difference between Hermaphrodites and Triploids, apologies if I did not go into enough detail but what I meant by Hermaphrodite/Triploid was the fact that the plant first grew as normal throughout the first 2 weeks of the Vegetation phase as a Diploid, it was only after this point that the plant began to show its Triploid characteristics and all new nodes that developed were in Triploid form which I thought was quite strange considering that the plant had began its growth as a Diploid.

    All plants were kept in the Vegetation phase until they produced pre-flowers ( this period of time was approximately 4 weeks or a little more until all plants showed ) It was at this point that I noticed every single plant had female pre-flowers which did not make sense as it was a Regular seed pack, I was almost certain that I had made a mistake so I went through all the plants again checking every single node and then I noticed that ( coincidently plant no. 3 the Triploid ) that I previously thought was female and was happy about and would have liked to use as a mother, had a few little pollen sacks on the 4th node down from the top, therefore it was a Triploid plant with both male and female sex organs, It is this whole combination that makes me think the plant was just a highly unstable genetic mutation.

    I must state that at no point were the plants stressed in any way and all were in a perfectly stable environment and all of the plants grew up completely healthy otherwise.

    Here is the Information you requested

    1) What is the name of strain you bought, and the name of the shop were you
    bought the seeds?
    AK-47 regular, ASG-Gifts in Amsterdam

    2) About when did you buy them, the date more or less?
    about a year ago

    3) What is the (handwritten) number on the package?
    6728

    4) How many seeds were in the package?
    11

    5) How many seeds did you try, and how many germinated?
    11, 10

    6) Which germination method did you use?
    Paper towel method

    7) If your problem was not about germination, please tell us in short what
    your problem was?
    9 female plants and one hermaphrodite

    8) Send us an address where we can send new seeds to, if you qualify for a
    replacement.
    ******************

    I am greatly appreciative of your comunication and am very interested to see your opinion on this situation.

    Kind regards

    Hi GreeenFingers,

    Thomas is not in today so I respond to your interesting email. He will be back tomorow I think so he will pick up the rest of the ‘problem’.

    You have indeed a rare find I think. Normally when I see triploidy it is a plant which starts its life as such, with 3 leaves at the same node, but usually after 5 to 8 nodes it goes back to normal. After that there is nothing indicating it started its life as a triploid. In your case it started life as a normal plant and became a triploid later on, backwards to the normal situation.

    What could have triggered the triploidy is the change of sex of the plant, becasue that is what seems to have happend to me. The plant was a female, but ‘decided’ to become male. Hence the female preflowers, and after some time, the male clusters. This does happen from time to time, also with female seeds. (and from the results it looks like female seeds you got in stead of regular, we dont think this is the case but this is another thing) Changing of sex is in the genome of the plant, and with regular seeds you do not notice this. But this is a known fact of cannabis plants to respond to certain stimula to change its sex. It is impossible to get this out of female seeds, and this is totally different from hermies. The only way to recognize this is when you see preflowers of a certain sex, and then when real flowering starts ( or already before as in your case) it is all of a sudden the opposite sex.

    Real hermies have flowers of both sexes at the same time. Buds which carry female and male flowers intermixed, or one above the other. Sex change plants have only buds with either male or female flowers, and preflowers of the opposite sex.

    I think this is what happend in your plant, and with the changing of its sex, there was also a trigger to grow triploidy. It would be interesting to see how it grows out.

    Thomas will deal further with your case.

    Simon
    Hello Simon

    Thank you for your reply, your reasoning seems to make sense but does that not usually only apply to feminised seeds rather than regulars?

    I would have expected an occurrence like this from feminised seeds as I understand the process of feminising plants. Would it not be expected that something like this could not have happened where the F1 AK47 seeds were produced from stable parents rather than the feminised seeds being a grown out F1 AK47 plant that has been stressed or grown past harvest to create pollen or seeds?

    This is what makes me think that my seeds were actually Feminised because of the fact that there was a Sex Change or Hermaphroditism with the fact that all 9 remaining plants were Female this seems like two reasons for me to believe that the seeds might have been a mix up.

    I was just curious about your opinion on the harvest time of AK47 based on trichome development either being Clear, Cloudy Amber or combinations of each. I am reading an awful lot of differing opinions on when to harvest based on the trichomes but I was just wondering how you personally know when your AK47 has hit peak ripeness or at least the level of ripeness that you intend the plant to have based on the effect that you originally bred AK47 to produce.

    I thought who better to ask than the person who created it

    I greatly appreciate your communication, help and assistance and look forward to speaking to you again

    Hi GreeenFingers,

    Sorry for late reply. We have people sick and on holiday, and I’ve overlooked your first mail.

    For my answers see below in your mail.

    You mean triploidy? I have so far only seen it in plants grown from regular seeds, not in fem. plants. Although I have grown far more Regular seeds.
    If you refer to hermies, then I have to say that they certainly occur in reg. plants, but one should expect a higher % in fem.plants, how much more depends on the way the fem. seeds were made.

    Many unfertilized female plants will produce a few male flowers or a few bananas here and there after their peak of the flowering cycle. This tendency is part of how the sex expression of the cannabis plant works. I dont want to go into too much detail here, but I’m sure you know this is not as clear as in humans, which is almost 100% pure male or female. In cannabis its rather a gliding scale with on opposite ends the true male and females, because they do exist. Those plants have no tendency to grow flowers of the opposite sex no matter what you do to them. You could trie this out with (some) plants you have; let them flower on and on till death. Many will show some flower from the opposite sex, but some will die by themselves and will never show any banana or full male flower ( a banana is only a part of the male flower), also not under any type of stress.

    It is those true male or female plants which we use for breeding. For reg, and also for fem seeds. Many seed companies do not do this but rather choose the easier plants to produce fem seeds with. But, as you’ll understand, when choosing the parent plants for your fem seeds, the easier the plants change sex, the lousier the fem seeds are.

    But the really difficult plants to change sex, are for that reason rather difficult to work with. And so the question is; what kind of plants does one use to produce seeds, easy to-change-sex-plants (lousy fem seeds) or difficult ones which leads to good fem seeds. If you want to make life easy (and the fem seeds not so good) choose for the easy plants, and vice versa.

    Fem.seeds should not be produced from the female plants which will produce male flowers or bananas after either stress, or when they are permitted to flower way passed their normal life expectancy, period.

    If you do use those ‘easy’ plants then you will produce inferior fem seeds, which will be unfair for the customer, and bad for the reputation of fem seeds. Well, this is going on off course.

    A change of sex has no higher occurance in fem seeds, it might even be so that this happens more frequent in reg. seeds but it is a rather difficult thing to test out. As you may know the environment influences the sexual expression of Cannbis plants. For example high temps during germing of seeds leads to a higher rate of male plants. People who give their germing seeds temps of 30 Celsius or higher know this from experience. They think the seeds were bad but it was their own doing.

    What is going on here? This means that the same plant ‘decides’ to become male under certain circumstances. (Even some animals have the same trick, the temp of hatching eggs decide which sex the young crocodiles will have.)

    Temp is one factor but there are more factors which influence sex and we do not know all of them. If in reg seeds a plant changes its sex, who will recognize this? If in fem seeds a plant (which should be female, right) turns into male it doesn’t go by unnoticed. As usual the seeds are blamed, but it rather is the environment. Which factor(s) exactly can be held responsible is unclear. But when growing fem. seeds, certainly if there are many together in 1 room, you better keep an eye open for these unwanted flip overs.

    This changing of sex is strongly embedded in the cannabis genome and cannot be taken out. May be with genetic enginering we will, but I don’t think oldfashioned breeding can do this. So we have to deal with keeping an eye open.

    Can we recognize these sex flip-overs? Certainly we can; those plants usually start with showing female preflowers. Then, after the onset of the flowering cycle you can see a full blown male all of a sudden. What is that a Hermie?? No, a hermie has male and female flowers in the same buds. This is a plant which was determined to be female but decided to become male in stead, hence the female preflowers.

    The perfect harvest point cannot be pinned down to a certain day, plants are living objects and they develope differently for each individual, therefore you should always check the trichomes before harvesting.
    After 53 days you should check one top bud of your plants with a handheld microscope (available in every growshop). You look at the trichomes (=cristals), they look like a mini mushroom, with a gland (=stem) and a head (=round ball on top of stem). You have to take a closer look at the heads of the trichomes.
    When they develope they are clear and transparant, as soon as the plant starts to ripen the heads will turn milky, they get a white colour inside the heads and when the plant is ripe the heads turn amber (=yelowish colour).
    The perfect moment to harvest is when appr. 1/3 of the heads of the trichomes are amber.
    You look at one top bud and when in the area you are looking at has about 1/3 of the amber heads, you should harvest.


    Simon.
    HI, GreeenFingers!

    I am sorry, but i was sick last week, because of my hernia acting up. My back hurt so bad I couldn’t walk anymore...oooouchh......

    Simon was writing a very extensive e-mail to answer your questions, but he never sent it, i just mailed it to you.

    I also have mailed with the other 420-forum member today, the other member who had a similar problem.

    We are now in the middle of a thorough investigation about this issue and we will try to find out if the seeds you received have been switched (could also be a shop-employee who wants to grow some decent genetics and exchanged them for some bag-seeds he had...very unlikely,but possible etc.).

    Since all of this is a mystery to us and none of this was your fault, we
    want to make sure you have a positive experience with our original genetics.

    We from Serious Seeds strive to make all our customers seriously happy.

    We therefore will send you a replacement pack of AK-47 regular to the
    following address:

    *********************

    Please confirm to me that this address is correct and I will advise our
    shipping department to send out your replacement.

    Aloha, Thomas.
    (Marketing-Manager Serious Seeds)



  7. #7
    420 Member Greenhouse250's Avatar
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    Re: Serious Seeds Passing off feminized seeds as regular seeds (unstable genetics her

    Hi GF, I'm trying not to post till i get my seeds. If i were you i wouldn't necessarily eat everything there dishing out...
    I caught on to your seeds before i even started mine, so i'm starting to piece everything together...

    later GH

  8. #8
    420 Member GreeenFingers's Avatar
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    Re: Serious Seeds Passing off feminized seeds as regular seeds (unstable genetics her

    We will see ha ha for a strain that has won so many competitions year after year you would expect that nothing should be wrong.

    So far my girls are living up to my highest expectations so I have no reason to yet doubt the quality of the product.
    But only time will tell


  9. #9
    420 Member Greenhouse250's Avatar
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    Re: Serious Seeds Passing off feminized seeds as regular seeds (unstable genetics her

    Still holdin back..your absolutely correct! its their "flag ship" strain, but it ain't the same strain as the 1990's...

    I have some more info, you will see we are not the only ones...

  10. #10
    420 Member Greenhouse250's Avatar
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    Re: Serious Seeds Passing off feminized seeds as regular seeds (unstable genetics her

    This whole deal has been a gong show..i don't believe that this AK-47 is the one i read about and really wanted.. time will tell. (but i doubt it!)

    found online:

    peter tosh wrote: i bought some serious seeds ak-47 and its goin crazy showing sex while still in veg (under a mh running 18/6). i only had three plants i grew from seed and the first incident was about a month into growth when one showed it was male with the balls and all so i chopped it down. now today, a few weeks later, i found another one is showing female and actually starting to flower! anyway, i chopped it too because im looking for a stable mother plant. whats up with this? i have 24 plants in veg, like 8 strains, and the only one doing this is the ak. im down to one now and if it does the same crap i am never buying serious seeds again. everybody says this ak is easy to grow too!





    seaweed wrote:Peter - your post caught my eye. I, too, had ordered directly from Serious the AK-47 - some White Russian too. I took just 4 to grow out, saved the rest. The females from these were incredible plants. I kept these as mothers, and after several years the AK just decided to start flowering. I was really disappointed, ;(because I've heard of people keeping mothers going indefinitely by just recloning them.

    When I gave her up, I started some new seeds from the original order - sprouted right up, got the female, and started cloning. This one wasn't half the plant the other one was - different shape, flowers not as dense. And, worst of all, it behaved like a hermaphrodite. About 4 weeks in I'd see tiny little bananas sticking out of some ovules - not even a true male flower - along with a tiny white "pretend" seed! :sign0065: I thought it was me, my nutrients, some unknown stress.

    I went crazy trying to figure it out. After a whole bunch of doing and reading and pulling my hair out, I emailed Simon at Serious. I described the problems, and asked if the age of the seeds could cause this (I'd kept some from the original order several years, in the fridge). He responded and said what I had was definitely a "form of maleness", but that he believed his seeds wouldn't do this. :evilgrin0040:He also said the age of seeds wouldn't cause this.

    I had the same experience with the White Russian later on. Some fantastic plants, some terrible.

    I'm glad you wrote - your experience lends weight to what I was thinking - it isn't stable enough. I think F1 hybrids are what are usually sold - and they're good strong plants, and some variation is supposed to be expected. But IMHO, I think the amount is too great on these varieties, and needs to be dialed back somehow - especially if money is tight and we don't want to sprout up our entire order all at once, then grow it all out, flower it, keep clones of each before they flower, and go back and keep those that were best after the results are in!!! Lotsa work - maybe my expectations are out of whack, but when seeds cost so much, I would think one wouldn't have to go through quite so much.

    If you have some other seeds from your order, I'd say get'em goin'. You'll probably find a star in there.









    peter tosh wrote: seaweed- thanks for sharing your experience. good to know i am not alone. i knew it wasnt my fault! i think some of these genetics are just unstable. i have also been having issues with this cash crop ken nuken (kish x godbud). the leaves are coming out all curly and retarded, i think i need to flush it good then try less nutes. as for the ak, i am just gonna see what happens, but all 3 i grew have been weak growers which supposively is not very ak-like. its supposed to be the shit i thought, thats why everybody does ak crosses! whatever, im just waiting for these cuttings in my ez clone 60 to take off and then everthing in veg is on to flower. i still have 5 seeds left of the ak, so if this last plant goes crazy or turns out to be a male, i will start over with those. its been a pain in the ass trying to find a mother from these 4 new strains i have going. its gonna be such a relief to finally finish everything out and see what ive got. i wish so bad i was in cali or somewhere so i could just get clones of badass genetics and not have to go through all this seed crap. btw i will say of the four strains, subcool's jillybean has been the best grower by far. 5 of 5 seeds made it and they all have looked happy and healthy the whole time. i might have to try vortex next, yo big ups to sub! lastly a side note, i am now in week 7 of flower with this feminized seed i grew (strain is magus - motavation)and i just noticed its now hermied out with seeds on most the buds! i hate that, i didnt even catch those sneaky seeds until now! the other plants in my room are perfectly healthy, in fact this is my best lookin grow yet. so i know it's that strain and not the environment. oh well, at least i have a fantastic harvest comin up soon! i just am gonna have to be patient with everything else.







    peter tosh wrote: update - the last one messed up too. a few days into flower it started showing male sex on some branches and female on the others! Serious Seeds seriously suck! talk about a disappointment. i dont think im even gonna mess with those leftover seeds i have, im sick of wasting my nutes and time!







    FLB wrote:Feel your pain. Bought some serious white russian and two out of the three nannnered. pathetic and smoke mediocre at best.







    peter tosh wrote: word. thanks flb. i was thinkin i want to try that white russian, but not after all this crap!







    Zissou intern: AK now is not what it used to be when the name became famous.

    move on, as

    garth - "live in the nowwwww!"

    cause finding stuff from then that lives up to the name is very few and far between.







    Torturekill wrote: Your best bet is finding an old Ak-47 cut. There was a lot of good ones to be found. I know i used to have one. I also made some hybrids and a bx from the cherry pheno. Shes potent as hell. Typical AK-47. Never had any issues.


    THE END!




    I had planned to ask 420mag to take this thread down, but upon arrival of the seeds..that went out the window!!!!!

    I have bag seeds that look better then this shit!!! Too many good seed companies to deal with this crap.

    They literally look worse then the first pack... nice work
    Buckshot likes this.

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    Re: Serious Seeds Passing off feminized seeds as regular seeds (unstable genetics her

    hi
    i just read this i know its been sitting but id like to respond and mention what i consider somehwat honest seedbanks.sorry for the length.
    serious seeds is seriously blowin smoke up your ass buddy,they suck.i bought chronic reg white russian reg and warlock fem from these jokers at niagara falls seedbank may 2012.chronic was in fact the shittiest plant i have ever grown,complete garbage,fluffy stringy urn shaped thin fingers,no potency,a nice touch of hermy for your entertainment and had everything that most people would breed out of their strains....a real breeding miracle to breed something this bad,its the plant version of shitty b movie.white russian same deal actually couldnt really tell the difference between the 2 smoked perhaps a bit better than chronic,some buds of chronic were better than russian and vice versa .then warlock was no better but to be fair i only got 2 to germinate maybe they took magus genetics and tweaked it too. these strains are disapointing.i got basically the same story from them,first oh no thats a fake company capitilizing on our great breeding etc, a quick botany education reinforcing something weve all read in clarkes book as well.ontario seedbank apparently sold fake ones seious seeds rep said(couldnt be worse,maybe ill get their version?) ,.after they verified my packs,i had send pics and details, they agreed it was theirs.they did offer to replace warlock but 3 for 3 i didnt want to waste anymore time but i did want to see their play.after a cple emails,then they said mel frank said reversal in a book so they ran with that and said try ak 47 its unrivaled for potency!!what me worry?i laughed when i read it almost replied ill send you 1 dollar for every pack u destroy. i had hermies from chronic and russian.also said the deal about hermy on same flower,never ever has the great simon experienced anything but positive results etc blah blah blah.btw the chronic and russian dried were duplicates,no smell no buzz,the warlock grew so slow and was at deaths door the entire grow so i kindly euthanized it.at the same time i grew paradise sensi star and for about 1/2 the price of a serious strain it seriously kicked ass in comparison.huge pine buds with a good kick,aslo alongside was royal queen skunk#1 which in its own right is not a bad example of sk#1 and also was heads above serious .5 sensi star fems planted all germinated all were great ,i kept 2 ,1 huge yielder arm sized tops thick enough to mold if not vented and the other a not so thick plant which has good effect decnt potency a weelll rounded plant suitable for commercial grows.royal queen skunk#1 5 seeds 5 germinated ,skunk1 from royal queen is almost as good as sensi star from paradise ,had good stink and when cut a bit earlier it gives a good sativa high no complaints overall ,reliable.ive read people thumbs up about this serious seeds company so i had to try it,even most of the grow i was telling myself theyre gonna go nuts any day and all they did was build up more leaf .skunk#1 yielded the best about 5 times more than chronic and russian and potency left serious at the gate.

    based on company claims heres my rating profuse hermie gives it zero
    chronic 0/10
    russian 0/10
    warlock no rating since 2 seeds sprouted and was 1 culled and the other later culled due to slow growth. i kept 2 sensi stars as clones discarded sk1 due to the fact sensi star is better in every way,but my purchased examples of sensi star are in no way 1 hitters nor does the buzz peak last more than an hour,skunk lasts longer and is 2/3rds potency.sensi star in a garden is easy to spot its fan leaves are the size of dinner plates ona big plant.as a note i grew sensi star utdoors this year and was finished 3 wk of october,not as good as indoor for strength but major yeild,i think if you started some from clone in pots and had ema few feet tall for transplanting outside you could get a lb a plant.sensi star is what serious would want as chronic


    royal queen
    6/10
    paradise 7/10

    ....best so far from seeds at 6 weeks flowering.(all these are in a different league than the 3 serious seeds strains).all will yeild at least twice as much as chronic or russian ,i can tell already.no hermies in site from anything yet.
    not in order
    dinafem original amnesia:nicest smelling plant ive ever been in contact with,lemon smell stays on you for a long time after touching it,its aroma is quite addictive and soothing ,id love to get a pillow filled with it for sleeping
    royal queen white widow :smells like widow i grew 10 years ago so far so good,trichromes are comin now
    royal queen critical getting really fat i can tell its going to be huge,fist sized buds at this stage,good trichrome development
    kens gdp 2 phenos 1 pole not much branching widest leaves ever so far very attractive,2nd pheno is the one you see on the web all the time
    dinafem blue widow looks close to gdp 1 pheno
    woodhorse trainwreck just going into full bloom
    woodhorse herijuana slow but looks great
    motorebel willy x heri bx best of the bunch for trichrome development a this stage
    th seeds hog waiting for the hog to fatten up and see what the hype is

    serious seeds price was 1 pack $110 each except for warlock was $70,all the other strains ranged from $40-$50 blue widow was free promotion.

    all grown 5 gallon bags hp promix,gh 3 part,under 1 1000 watt mh 1 600 watt conversion and 1 1000 watt dual ballast,fresh air intake and impeller fan exhaust,no co2.ill take the best 3 or 4 strains and go from there.
    peace

    thanks

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    Re: Serious Seeds Passing off feminized seeds as regular seeds (unstable genetics her

    oh sorry hog was $150 and gdp was 115 both reg

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    420 Member Greenhouse250's Avatar
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    Re: Serious Seeds Passing off feminized seeds as regular seeds (unstable genetics her

    Hey thcvet, glad you posted! The more story's the better..oh i lol'd at this "never ever has the great simon experienced anything but positive results" couldn't of put it better myself. Just so you know they have been looking at this thread, and had asked to take it down or change the title.. fuck that simon!! He just rubes me the wrong way.. even watching him on you-tube annoys me.

    What i've noticed so far with the ak is that its not consistent, its fucking all over the place.. some of the plants should resembles them self's. But they don't.

    I will probably give the replacement seeds to someone that needs practise growing...

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    420 Member Greenhouse250's Avatar
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    Re: Serious Seeds Passing off feminized seeds as regular seeds (unstable genetics her

    sorry.. i don't get what your saying here: "after a cple emails,then they said mel frank said reversal in a book so they ran with that and said try ak 47 its unrivaled for potency!!"

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    Re: Serious Seeds Passing off feminized seeds as regular seeds (unstable genetics her

    hi
    sorry if i didnt make myself clear.
    When i complained to them by mail i mentioned i was just looking for a potent strain and now im into poor plants low potency,hermies and they recommended i buy ak47 for its unrivaled potency and gave me the award list.i thought thats your countermeasure?i decided screw that.I mentioned the mel thing and they replied yep thats it,almost as if anything to avoid the mirror and pacify me..in mels grower guide book from the 70s theres info on the 4 sexes,male female and intersex which he says are natural.i will buy this as we see it in nature beyond plants.the 4th type would be hermy by stress ,factors such as photoperiod and time of flowering induction,time planted.I think indoors most of this is not an issue.i feel that you should be able to stress your plants within reason (or new growers would get constant hermies )and not get unintended hermies.i dont believe when these plants grow naturally they have much less stress than i give them,i think its the breeders job to make them as bulletproof as posible or at least give warning of potential unaddressed problems.most people are not master growers, the seed companies know this so they should take steps.i dont buy these myths of hermies from small pots being rootbound, a draft or something silly like that.the only one i really buy(indoors) is photoperiod and chemical manipulation.i wont use strains that react like that unless they are out of this world and i havent had one that good yet.and honestly who wants the headache?if these plants they sell are so sensitive why use them as breeding stock?whats next sorry cant clone it the stress will hermy them or they wilted and need water or over watered them...oh oh hermy. it seems anything is stress.i want plants i can somewhat neglect dont have to be luther burbank to grow them and still give results and theres plenty out there that you find after getting ripped off a few times.these hermies i got werent my fault if they were all or some of the other would do it not just the serious ones.all same conditions.when a plant shows an abundance of preflowers at veg light cycle you can expect problems,its not my first trip to the city and im not narrowminded blaming someone else for my incompetence,.one would think that instead of deleting these posts they would take the criticism and change things,admit theres a problem and fix it.I really dont have an issue with them personally as i would have reacted this way whichever seed bank sold me that,its just their stock was the problem.My brother has ak47 from niagara seedbank and its consistant lol its easy to spot the females auto flowering reg seeds under 24/0,i wont get a clone and i expect he will toss em and use the star.I believe the proof of a good breeder is getting better products than you bargained for,making mistakes and still the genetics come through..Some people love serious seeds and i wonder what their normal smoke is if they consider them killer or maybe there was just a bad batch and i was the guinnae pig as you were,regardless in my circle people still rib me about it,i couldnt give it away,they were callin me simon for a while .It seems they offer autoflowering strains.... an easy fix just put a new label on existing packs.if i was that shitty at my job id be fired.
    good luck with your search if you really want ak47 theres probably some good versions of it from better days.

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