10 Gallons per plant: do I really need to swap the res every 7 days?

[warezaholic]

Well, it's not started yet but feel free to drop in on any of my journals anytime! I may not always follow advice, but I do always listen and appreciate the feedback to use in future grows.

I'll definitely be doing another Lucas run down the road. Though I never was a fan of the Flora Nova Bloom....i hated how damn thick it was...almost like a sludge. But I still got a full bottle and might give it another try. The maxibloom was by far the easiest and personal favorite IMO, but last year it was impossible to find so I bought some Mega Crop.

I use General Hydroponics trio with calmag and hydroguard. I tossed my bottle of flora bloom in the trash.

I found a PERFECT WAY to store and administer my nutrients. I found a $40 8 pack of 1 quart plastic sports bottles including a carrying rack on Amazon.

On one end (side by side) I have 2 ph down (1 full strength and one diluted with water; and 1 ph up also diluted 50/50. The rest are all 100% (not diluted) I removed the pullup spout of each to allow for my 10ml long pipettes. The plastic bottles also prevent chipping my glass pipettes in glass bottles and almost zero evaporation.

 

[Delps8]

Yeh, that's a lot easier that schlepping gallon jugs of nutes.

 

[warezaholic]

I'm trying to get 5 growing autoflower (white widow) going in two different Closets/Wardrobes. These are the strangest looking autoflower I've ever seen in person Or photographs! They are flourishing and have the biggest fan leaves imaginable. They are also some of most difficult to germinate and then get to vegetate.

I am going into details later. If anyone is interested or following my thread; I'll get into details later.

 

[Delps8]

I use General Hydroponics trio with calmag and hydroguard. I tossed my bottle of flora bloom in the trash.

I found a PERFECT WAY to store and administer my nutrients. I found a $40 8 pack of 1 quart plastic sports bottles including a carrying rack on Amazon.

On one end (side by side) I have 2 ph down (1 full strength and one diluted with water; and 1 ph up also diluted 50/50. The rest are all 100% (not diluted) I removed the pullup spout of each to allow for my 10ml long pipettes. The plastic bottles also prevent chipping my glass pipettes in glass bottles and almost zero evaporation.

This is a brilliant idea. No two ways about it.

I’m using the idea of a caddy and water bottles but the bottles that I’m using have a “squeeze to open” flap in the top instead of pull to open.

My process is to fill beakers with either the exact amount of nutes or as close as possible. The larger volumes, 150 CC’s for example, are easy because that’s a mark on a beaker but to add 13.75 to a bucket of water I squeeze out 20± ml and then use a syringe to get the right amount and then vacuum up the leftover with the syringe, poke the needle (it’s a probe in reality) through the top, and just squeeze the syringe to get that back into the bottle.

It’s not just a time saver (“Wait…there’s more!”) - it’s safer, too, since we’re dealing with much smaller containers. That means less of a chance to spill or to drop one of those gallon jugs of nutes.

Thank you, sir! Excellent idea.


OK, something I stumbled on…

My tent’s in a garage with one LED work light. The tent is in the back of the garage, the cistern in the front right, and the nutes are stored in another corner. With all of that stuff in different places, I have to wear a headlamp to see detail - there’s just not enough light. So…bring your own light. That’s fine.

What about reading the gradations on a 50 ML beaker. Even with a headlamp, that’s not easy so I spent $18.99 on “Rechargeable LED Eyeglasses Bracket/Headband Interchangeable Magnifier”. The glasses look like the glasses that watch repairmen used to wear but it has a little LED light and it ships with six lenses of differing strength. It’s great for seeing the markings on a beaker but I also use it to check out the plants. I tried counting nodes in the GG autos that I’m growing and it was a PITA - they’re short plants with lots of foliage but it was much easier to see what was what with these specs and they cost less than $20. Money well spent.

 

[Delps8]

And some thoughts on “swap the res every N days”. That’s obviously a really good idea or we would have found it to be a bad idea many years ago. But it’s a guideline, not a rule.

The 4 GG AF’s that I’ve got in a 35 gallon res used so little water in the first few weeks that the only way I could measure water consumption was to use a ruler graduated in mm. With high RH and roots barely touching the water, I think they used a quart in all of that time. I did swap the res after 10 days and in the second 10 days, they used more water but, IIRC, it worked out to be 8% of the res. Glad that nutes are free…

Like so many other things, this is a case of “it depends”. There’s no way to easily determine what specific nutes have been absorbed by the plants so we can’t replenish just some nutes. On the other hand, having to toss out > 30 gallons of nutes because the plants have used 3 gallons is pretty nuts.

That leads to the question - “So why did you do it?” and the answer is not having the experience to know how to proceed and erring on the side of caution, instead. That doesn’t mean it was the right decision (I should have waited longer), those are just the reasons.

The plants are significantly larger but not taking in a lot of water so it’s most likely that I’ll keep this res until they start to flower. On the other hand, do we have to swap the res every week? My thinking at this point is “That approach has worked well for a lot of people but, when all is said and done, the answer is ‘It depends…’."

 

[sneekymofo]

I broke a cardinal rule and skipped through too much of this thread, so this has probably already been said. But since we don’t know what they eat for dinner, we have to guess. pH adjustments chase PPMs so we all drive ourselves crazy. I gave up. When they are young and drinking little i stretch farther between changeouts. Maybe 10 days, maybe 2 weeks. I let the plants behaviors decide. When more mature and thirsty, I just bite the bullet and do weekly changeouts. I’m on a 40 gallon now, so it hurts more than my 13 gallon, less than a 100 gallon would. But this keeps my reservoir stable, I very rarely have failures, what’s root rot lol, and yields are great. I might waste a little, but isn’t it ultimately cheaper THAN THE ALTERNATIVE Lol?

 

[warezaholic]

And some thoughts on “swap the res every N days”. That’s obviously a really good idea or we would have found it to be a bad idea many years ago. But it’s a guideline, not a rule.

The 4 GG AF’s that I’ve got in a 35 gallon res used so little water in the first few weeks that the only way I could measure water consumption was to use a ruler graduated in mm. With high RH and roots barely touching the water, I think they used a quart in all of that time. I did swap the res after 10 days and in the second 10 days, they used more water but, IIRC, it worked out to be 8% of the res. Glad that nutes are free…

Like so many other things, this is a case of “it depends”. There’s no way to easily determine what specific nutes have been absorbed by the plants so we can’t replenish just some nutes. On the other hand, having to toss out > 30 gallons of nutes because the plants have used 3 gallons is pretty nuts.

That leads to the question - “So why did you do it?” and the answer is not having the experience to know how to proceed and erring on the side of caution, instead. That doesn’t mean it was the right decision (I should have waited longer), those are just the reasons.

The plants are significantly larger but not taking in a lot of water so it’s most likely that I’ll keep this res until they start to flower. On the other hand, do we have to swap the res every week? My thinking at this point is “That approach has worked well for a lot of people but, when all is said and done, the answer is ‘It depends…’."

It sounds like you have a sizable circulation system so changing that much nutrient water too often is likely overkill. I just keep the ph at 6.8 and mix the nutrients according to the manufacturer's directions mixing only what I use in a week and I use small air hose to keep the fluids in motion so there's little chance of stagnation.

Since I grow in small closets, I have no room or $$$ for automatic feeding systems.

So if I ever need to go away for more than a day, I need a plant and pet sitter.

White widow autoflower is the weirdest strain I've ever seen. They are all the same batch but are acting and growing at wildly different rates. The three plants in these photos were germinated and transplanted within hours of each other but 2 of them stopped growing for 10 days at 2 inches while the 3rd one flourished. But it looks like the little 2 are gonna go normally fron here on.

 

[Delps8]

I broke a cardinal rule and skipped through too much of this thread, so this has probably already been said. But since we don’t know what they eat for dinner, we have to guess. pH adjustments chase PPMs so we all drive ourselves crazy. I gave up. When they are young and drinking little i stretch farther between changeouts. Maybe 10 days, maybe 2 weeks. I let the plants behaviors decide. When more mature and thirsty, I just bite the bullet and do weekly changeouts. I’m on a 40 gallon now, so it hurts more than my 13 gallon, less than a 100 gallon would. But this keeps my reservoir stable, I very rarely have failures, what’s root rot lol, and yields are great. I might waste a little, but isn’t it ultimately cheaper THAN THE ALTERNATIVE Lol?

Yeh, I just had to go to the weed store. It's > $400 per ounce in SoCal.

"I let the plants behaviors decide." - I get that. It takes experience to know how to read the plant so that will take time. This grow has been, so far, complete Maytag repairman level of excitement. Growing quite a bit now, they've consumed measurable amounts of water, and they're starting to smell funky so something's going on.

"When more mature and thirsty, I just bite the bullet and do weekly changeouts."
Better than tanking a grow when it's so near the finish line.

"I’m on a 40 gallon now, so it hurts more than my 13 gallon, less than a 100 gallon would. But this keeps my reservoir stable, I very rarely have failures, what’s root rot lol, and yields are great. "
100 gallons! That's a beast but, looking at some of these "personal" grow setups, it wouldn't surprise me to see that kind of equipment.

 

[Delps8]

It sounds like you have a sizable circulation system so changing that much nutrient water too often is likely overkill.

You got it. It's a tiny % of the res so telling me to pump out 35 gallons of nutes because the earth has turned 7 times doesn't sound anything like that "science" thing.

I just keep the ph at 6.8 and mix the nutrients according to the manufacturer's directions mixing only what I use in a week and I use small air hose to keep the fluids in motion so there's little chance of stagnation.

5.8…
So you're using airstones to bubble?

Since I grow in small closets, I have no room or $$$ for automatic feeding systems.

So if I ever need to go away for more than a day, I need a plant and pet sitter.

That's because there's a lot going on. Disturbances in the force in terms of the plants taking up and excreting chemicals. My seedling stage was…monotone but things have started to take off in the past two days.

White widow autoflower is the weirdest strain I've ever seen. They are all the same batch but are acting and growing at wildly different rates. The three plants in these photos were germinated and transplanted within hours of each other but 2 of them stopped growing for 10 days at 2 inches while the 3rd one flourished. But it looks like the little 2 are gonna go normally fron here on.

Yeh, that's a lot of variance from the norm. Wonder why that happened.

 

[warezaholic]

I have a 4inch flat round air stone at the bottom of each plant with its own air pump line. This is something I believe gives their roots as much fresh air as possible.

I am going to bow out of this conversation because it's not possible to post pictures.

Warezaholics Skid Row Closet Grow is my journal thread.

I subscribe to the reasoning that a picture says a thousand words.

 

[warezaholic]

I think I am having trouble with overcrowded roots in my res. I started these two white widow autos using GH Rapid Root and kicked myself in the root balls!

My roots are so thick, I am thinking might be causing retarded growth and delayed flowering. If anyone familiar with DWC Bubbleponic knows if overgrown roots in a 5 gallon bucket will hault the flowering cycle?

 

[Dr Fish]

You guys are making it sound so much more complicated than it really is.. Raising a great pot plant is no more difficult than raising a great dog.. They are so much alike.. They only need to be feed a good, no make that a great diet, especially the dog. You tell them both how to grow to be their very best.. Nothing important is left to them.. The job is it is so simple. The only thing, it is a little harder with a dog... Best thing is, you don't have to kill the Dog..

Give up the idea you need a lot of water to grow a lot of pot.. I only have 2 grow threads before I stopped posting grows.. Both used small amounts of water. No water pumps, no air stones.. Each plant circulates 120 gal. of water a day using only a dripring to move that water from a remote reservoir....... Total water 11-12 gal. in one system.. The other 7 gal. Total grow time from seed or clone,100 days +/_ a couple days...Simplicity is so much better in the end.

 

[Delps8]

I'm finishing off a grow of Autoflowering Gelatos and I changed the res at one and two week intervals. I wasn't looking for a pattern to see if there was any change in growth rates because I'm not in a controlled environment and it became a non-issue for me over the course of the grow.
One change I've made is to switch from Botanicare Kind to Jack's 3-2-1 (my blend is 4-3-0) and I came across this video earlier tonight. What to make of that — a nute vendor who says it's OK to not change out every two weeks.

 

[Sativa1970]

I think I am having trouble with overcrowded roots in my res. I started these two white widow autos using GH Rapid Root and kicked myself in the root balls!

My roots are so thick, I am thinking might be causing retarded growth and delayed flowering. If anyone familiar with DWC Bubbleponic knows if overgrown roots in a 5 gallon bucket will hault the flowering cycle?

All my grows are bubble DWC now for several years. I have left 6 foot tall 4.5 foot wide sativas in 5 gallon buckets to harvest. Root bound problems are from the lack of air at the roots. I had a $5 Walmart fish air pump and two 1 inch round air stones on those early 5 gallon grows. Never had any problems like root rot. Just cause you can doesn't mean you should.

Now I use 5 gal. buckets until they are 2 foot tall and 3 foot wide in veg. and 35 gal tote in flower. The problem you will run into is maintaining the res. Since the roots are taking up space you have less "water" and more demand in flower.PH and EC will swing wildly causing daily nute lock stunting growth.

Only time I dump my res is if the PH won't stop swinging or the plant shows early signs of deficiency. I have tried dumping every 2 weeks to keep an optimum EC. There was no difference in grow time or yield for me. Most grows veg 1.5 months in the same res with top ups. Then move the plant to bigger flower res. Do one res change mid flower,,, maybe.. Fist kid, third kid parenting syndrome mostly.

 

[Delps8]

All my grows are bubble DWC now for several years. I have left 6 foot tall 4.5 foot wide sativas in 5 gallon buckets to harvest. Root bound problems are from the lack of air at the roots. I had a $5 Walmart fish air pump and two 1 inch round air stones on those early 5 gallon grows. Never had any problems like root rot. Just cause you can doesn't mean you should.

Now I use 5 gal. buckets until they are 2 foot tall and 3 foot wide in veg. and 35 gal tote in flower. The problem you will run into is maintaining the res. Since the roots are taking up space you have less "water" and more demand in flower.PH and EC will swing wildly causing daily nute lock stunting growth.

Only time I dump my res is if the PH won't stop swinging or the plant shows early signs of deficiency. I have tried dumping every 2 weeks to keep an optimum EC. There was no difference in grow time or yield for me. Most grows veg 1.5 months in the same res with top ups. Then move the plant to bigger flower res. Do one res change mid flower,,, maybe.. Fist kid, third kid parenting syndrome mostly.

Good info there. Part of the issue is the size of the res. One valid test of a hypothesis is to take it to its logical extreme. If I'm growing a Runtz (auotflower) in a 200 gallon res, it's ludicrous to argue that "the res" should be swapped every 7 days. The impact of that plant on the res might be hard to measure. On the other hand, a 6' tall x 4.5' plant in a 5 gallon bucket? Wow!

"Just cause you can doesn't mean you should."
No argument from me!

Let's see — you're working in a 35 gallon res and your interval is two weeks. That's very similar to my experience - res size is the same (39.5 x 22.5 x 14.0 overall dimensions and I end up adding ≈ 28 gallons of nutes) and even at the two week mark, there were no apparent issues. Like the guys in the Jacks video, with all of the variables in play, the only sure fire way to know what's going on in the res is to do chemical analysis of the nutrient water. Might be interesting to give that a shot.

If I may, what nutes are you using and how long does it take to swap your res?

 

[Sativa1970]

To clarify, I change my res once every 6ish weeks. I veg for one and a half months in the same 5 gallon bucket with 4 gallons of solution. Then new flowering solution in 35 gallon res holding 25-30 gallons of solution. Change solution at around 5-6 weeks into flower. That solution takes me to week 10 of flower. The one plant I grew out in 5 gallons was because all the big res were full and didn't want to set up another for this one plant. It was just my bad planning and a pain in the ass to maintain.

If I change the res more often it is based on if the PH is manageable and if the plant is healthy. Only if the PH starts swinging way up and down or there are signs of deficiency, will I clean and change the res. ahead of schedule.

Every 2 weeks was an extreme experiment. Plan was to do every 2 weeks to see how much it improved the growth over 6 week changes then dial it back on each grow to find the optimum level. Grow time did not change and harvest only increased from 14oz to 14.25. I consider that within a margin of error so no real performance to warrant increasing the res intervals. I use a 60GPH pump to dump and fill while I work on another plant but it still added significant time to there tending. Keep an eye on the PH,EC and read your plant. I have had 5 plants in DWC perpetual grow for 4years. No issues from the res yet.

I just use dynagrow foliage and flower formula with rino skin silicate. It's cheap, available at my hydro store, simple to mix, and works just fine. My filtered water is already 90PPM cal mag. Kelp tea foliar spray on clones if they need a boost. That's it. They grow like weeds.

 

[PlanetJ]

Probably been said already:

I change res only when I get deficiencies and know the res has been in for a month without 'reset'.
As at that point, I cant rule out that an imbalance has formed in the res, making some of the nutrients lock out or be fully expended (which locks out others), thats the first step to getting back to normal.

If she looks good, I'm not changing the res. My res size is 15L, just upgraded to 20L, gonna treat that the same.

 

[Delps8]

To clarify, I change my res once every 6ish weeks. I veg for one and a half months in the same 5 gallon bucket with 4 gallons of solution. Then new flowering solution in 35 gallon res holding 25-30 gallons of solution. Change solution at around 5-6 weeks into flower. That solution takes me to week 10 of flower. The one plant I grew out in 5 gallons was because all the big res were full and didn't want to set up another for this one plant. It was just my bad planning and a pain in the ass to maintain.

If I change the res more often it is based on if the PH is manageable and if the plant is healthy. Only if the PH starts swinging way up and down or there are signs of deficiency, will I clean and change the res. ahead of schedule.

Every 2 weeks was an extreme experiment. Plan was to do every 2 weeks to see how much it improved the growth over 6 week changes then dial it back on each grow to find the optimum level. Grow time did not change and harvest only increased from 14oz to 14.25. I consider that within a margin of error so no real performance to warrant increasing the res intervals. I use a 60GPH pump to dump and fill while I work on another plant but it still added significant time to there tending. Keep an eye on the PH,EC and read your plant. I have had 5 plants in DWC perpetual grow for 4years. No issues from the res yet.

I just use dynagrow foliage and flower formula with rino skin silicate. It's cheap, available at my hydro store, simple to mix, and works just fine. My filtered water is already 90PPM cal mag. Kelp tea foliar spray on clones if they need a boost. That's it. They grow like weeds.

I appreciate the details. Thanks for taking the time.

That's a amazing as to how long you're going between changing out the res. And 14 vs 14.25 is well within natural variance. Just for G & G, I've attached a picture of a grow that's now in very late flower. Both are Gelato autos, same seed packet, both topped and LST'd. The plant on the right, Jeff, was so big that it crowded out one of the plants. So, 14 oz vs 14.25 - that's a rounding error!

"perpetual grow" - that's a great way to do it. If you're doing perpetual grow, then you're using the same nutes through the grow cycle, right?

Sounds like a very dialed in setup - congrats. That's something that I'm working towards.

 

[Delps8]

Probably been said already:

I change res only when I get deficiencies and know the res has been in for a month without 'reset'.
As at that point, I cant rule out that an imbalance has formed in the res, making some of the nutrients lock out or be fully expended (which locks out others), thats the first step to getting back to normal.

If she looks good, I'm not changing the res. My res size is 15L, just upgraded to 20L, gonna treat that the same.

A month or if there are issues. Some deficiencies take weeks to show up (I had an Mg deficiency). Have you run into anything like that?

 

[PlanetJ]

A month or if there are issues. Some deficiencies take weeks to show up (I had an Mg deficiency). Have you run into anything like that?

My Jack Herer log shows a bit of that .. pH related tho, I'm thinking. Kept it too exact at ot below 5.8, needs to drift into low 6 every now and then as well .. oops.