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1st Time Grow Organic - Bubblelicious

Fuzzy Duck

Well-Known Member
Leaf problem 2 to 3 days after 400w.

This morning i finally found the camera and got around to the pic, the problem has got worse/developed with other leafs showing minor signs.

This is be far the worst effected leaf... at the moment.
Leaf_problem_001.JPG


The leaf tissue between the veins extending from the midrib has dryed out & on examination is brittle & cracks in places once pressure is applyed !

My first assumption was Heat Stress as i mention in yesterdays post, but their is no curling up of the lamina - the blade of a leaf.

This lead me to believe it may be nutrient burn ?


Hence i come to ye the grislyed old forum veterans of many a grow seeking wisdom 'n' advice of Fuzzys fcekd leaf problem :peace:


P.s The other 2 plants look fine so far, its just this one.
 

Fuzzy Duck

Well-Known Member
Observational Notes of the last few days or more...


125w CFL & RH

Lights On - RH was aprox 50% to 60% average under the lights.
Night time/lights off - RH would spike any where between 80% to 95%

Which i'm not sure if this is deprimental to the plants health at this stage or even if night time/lights off RH even matters ?

Hence the addittion of Hydroton/clay pebbles to ultimately lower RH.

400w & RH

Lights On - RH, averaging 35% daily - i belive this is a combined effect of hydroton/clay pebbles keeping the moisture where it is & inline/extractor fan on full wack to lower temperature to an average of 26c to 27c/78f to 80f.
On previous test runs of the inline fan/extractor i've noted a 10% to 15% drop of RH when on full wack.

Night time/lights off - RH, not been able get a full picture of this yet as i'm normal out 'n' about when lights come on... on the couple of occassions i've noted RH 60% to 70%.


I may remove hydroton/clay pebbles to improve RH in lights on peroid but i feel that the night time RH spikes might be bad for the plants intill i can garther futher information on the matter at hand.

Alternatively i can leave the inline/extractor fan on at night time peroid to reduce RH a little, or even reserve hydroton/clay pebbles for the flowering peroid to lower RH to a suitable level to avoid bud rot etc and increase resin production... god damn it i had a brain fart.


If any one has any experience or views they wish to share about RH/humidity levels at day/night periods - advice or a friendly word is always welcome :thanks:
 

Fuzzy Duck

Well-Known Member
Well after some thought, my lil Bro chipped in his 2 cents worth & suggested a Mg defeciency as he likes to follow my grow :thumb:

A solution of Alg-a-Mic, Bio Heaven and Bio Grow was swiftly mixed up & given to my girlies.

Some other minor symtoms have also occured since last inspection, these lil beasties sure are hungrey :MoreNutes:


Its a process of elimanation now i'll see what happens next...
 

GodSpeed

Member of the Month: Jan 2012
Hey bro hope your well,

Sorry to hear about your leaf problem can be very disheartening to see as everything was so smooth.

I would like to suggest something that may be of interest, solve your problem. You are using All mix soil, when i used all mix soil i didnt add any nutes at all during the veg stage, i found there was plenty within the potting mix for my ladies to thrive perfectly, on some strains in later veg i found i did need to use a bit of food. From looking at your pictures it seems you are still in early days, i would flush your ladies through and let her have just water, i can almost garentee you will see good results from doing so. Also if it happens you do need to add some nutes because your girls are greedy i would suggest dropping grow all together and just use fish mix, it is all round 100 times better then there grow and have read LOTS of reports of having similar if not the same problem as your having right now from using bio bizz grow.


Sorry to add i would top dress your soil with dolmite lime cover it over with soil that will stop and calmag problems and keep your medium well balanced.
:peace:
 

Fuzzy Duck

Well-Known Member
Cheers for the top tips GodSpeed :thanks:


All the way upto the bulb change the plants recieved 25% to 50% strength nutrients give or take a little...

I just find it odd with the change to 400w that all of a sudden these problems occur, i may very well of over looked the nutrient content of All Mix on the last watering/feed i guess i was feeling confident with the current growth and i became complacent over the matter !

As a majority of the symtoms appear to be early i shall observe my current actions already taken, bearing in mind i should have 24 to 72 hours for problem to progress/get worse & observe waiting to act upon...

People may view my actions brutal but its part of my learning curve with MJ.


1. Two 10 litre buckets of water have been prepared since this morning in preparation of a flush if required.

2. Dolomite lime shall be tracked down & purchased tomorrow in the event of PH adjustment.

3. Consideration to a purchase a water filter jug shall be made in the next 24 hours as i'm in a hard water area... yup thats alkline & no i can not afford R/O.

4. Plans for an emergancy repot shall be made in case, all else fails.



My jedi growing skills appear to be having a disturbances with the force.

Battern down the hatches my girlies will be riding the eye of the storm for next several days :laugh:
 

Fuzzy Duck

Well-Known Member
Been shopping for new toys today nothing fancy tho & installed the new heat shield.


Fuzzys_new_toys_004.JPG


Required a minor modification to fit my reflector, only the bracket tho needed an extra hole drilling as the adjustable bit was to small for my own lamp, the moto of this story is always phone the suppler for details on product before blindly buying & hoping for the best... Thats jedi growing skills for ya, it happens.

Allows me to place reflector/lamp some 3 to 6 inchs closer (aprox) than normal, thats means more distribution of light/par/lumen than loss over distance if ya into that sort of stuff.

Fuzzys_new_toys_005.JPG


A very cheap but finctional PH meter & moisture meter all in one... it works tho ( not a very good pic )

To monitor soil PH before and after watering.

Fuzzys_new_toys_002.JPG


A device which i hope will improve my delievery system of nutrients to the root zone, the only problem with air pots is all the bloody holes leaks water every where :slide:

Fuzzys_new_toys_003.JPG


Some random bits...

Fuzzys_new_toys_006.JPG


Chinese aquarium co2 tablets, i was after the no mercy stuff but the shop sent these in the package, but they did give me the Ace of Bud stuff free of charge tho... ya win some ya loose some.
 

Fuzzy Duck

Well-Known Member
Fuzzys fceked up leaf problem was self inflicted due to not understanding the nature of air pots, which is they dry up quicker than regular pots. This was not to much of problem under a CFL as they create less heat but under a 400w HPS plus extra heat generated they can dry up pretty quickly with in 48 hours.

Dry growing medium can cause Ca -calcium lock up which contributes to leaf curling which some of the girls have shown signs off, i'm not total aware if Ca lock up creates further nutrient defeciencys involving other macro/micro nutrient yet & need to do more research on the matter!

I did experience minor symtoms of other defeciencys the other day which may of been due to dry growing medium/lack of nutrient up take/lock etc

These have been altered for the better since watering of Alg-a-Mic, Bio Heaven & Bio Grow with some symtoms disappearing with in 18 hours and others getting better/halted from degeneration.

Other symtoms may of been zinc (very rare) & iron which can cause necroises, dead leaf flesh as displayed in the first photo of fuzzys fceked leafs, hence the purchase of plant tonic stuff which is chelated (water absorbatent between ph 5 & 7)
I'm not aware of chelated nutrients with the biobizz range due to labeling discription & what ever regulations involved beyond my understanding.

Heat Shield Update - at 18inch above plants - current temps at 24 to 25c, with out it previoulsy 27c


Ye i forgot to water how stupid. I was caught unaware off the extra heat generated from HPS & shall rememdy my watering scedule ASAP.


The disturbance with in the force has been solved i hope ! and fuzzys lush growth will hopefully return soon. :thumb:


(currently conducting experiments with new primative Ph meter thing... stay turned for another gripping update from young jedi grower Fuzzy Duck)
 

GodSpeed

Member of the Month: Jan 2012
Hey bro glad you come to a conclusion, with the warmer temps and drying of the medium salt can be left behind as a result causing lockout of micronutrients, be carfull not to feed to often and water more if needed. It might be an idea to put some pans under your girls and put some fresh water in it to alow them to wick if times get to dry, i would still Hugly recomend a flush 90% of problems can be resolved with this simple method.

:peace:
 

Fuzzy Duck

Well-Known Member
Cheers GodSpeed for the tips, its always nice to hear some one else opinion on the matter at hand :thumb:

I'm preparing the bath tub & couple planks of wood for a flush to take place tomorrow as a precaution/advice given.


Notes of Buffering Effect of soil & PH - Fuzzys Observations so far...

  • PH of water 8 to 8.5 (Hard Water area, left to stand for 24Hrs / not modified by nutrients)
  • PH of growing medium when dry - PH 6.5
  • PH of growing medium 30 minutes after normal water is used - PH 5.6
  • PH of growing medium 8 hours later - PH 6
  • PH of growing medium 18 hours later - PH 6.3

Give or take .1 or .2 as i only have a primative PH meter.
 

GodSpeed

Member of the Month: Jan 2012
Weldone bro new growth is looking perfect! Do you think the heat and light spreader could of helped?
 

Fuzzy Duck

Well-Known Member
Day 35, time flys when ya having fun.

Been one hell off a week with lots of stuff going on plant wise, i'm sure i've lost track of a day or 2 in all the excitement.


The plant/leaf problem early on in the week was more than likely induced by HPS heat/dry growing medium which may of caused a slight nutrient lock/defeciency, with the girlies on a diet of ol Council Pop aka plain tap water since the problems happened as a precautionary measure.

As for the markings on leaf pic below, i believe that is a burn problem from a transpiration issue leaving sweaty patchs in between leaf vains which the heat from the HPS basically boiled the sweat and cooked the leaf... Yummy
Leaf_problem_001.JPG

A 2nd fan to create better air flow around plant canopy area may be required if problem persists in the future.

Heat Shield - So far it does what it says on the label, Less direct heat & a noticable 2c to 3c difference in canopy temperature on average being 24c to 25c which i considor more favourable than 27c to 28c with out the shield.
The odd spike does occur but more related to whether i have the house heating on or not effecting ambient temperatures.

As its only been a few days since the heat shield has been installed its to early to say whether it has effected growth rate, only more time will tell.


The Plan...


At some point i'm going to need to take some cuttings with in the next 7 to 14 days, before sexing the plants to see what i have, hopefully reveiling some bouncing lil girls :thumb:
 

Fuzzy Duck

Well-Known Member
Day 42

Plants are being sexed now on a 11/13 regime.

On average they stand about 12 to 14 inch in height with multipul branchs forming at the nodes aprox 4 to 5 inch in length.


One plant is being a pain showing signs of nutrient defecency, more likely P i'll get some pic's up soon once they wake up from their flower inducing slumber :thumb:
 

Mark30g

Active Member
Hey Fuzzy looking good bro sorry to hear about the deficiency they'll come around also I am not completely sure but won't it take longer for your grow media dry out could cause root rot as I had black paper on my grow media and when I spoke to the guy in shop he said I shouldn't put it on there so I took mine of so maybe he was wrong what ever tho but thought id just let you no m8
 

Fuzzy Duck

Well-Known Member
Hey Fuzzy looking good bro sorry to hear about the deficiency they'll come around also I am not completely sure but won't it take longer for your grow media dry out could cause root rot as I had black paper on my grow media and when I spoke to the guy in shop he said I shouldn't put it on there so I took mine of so maybe he was wrong what ever tho but thought id just let you no m8


The beauty about air pots is the several hundred holes in them making over watering very difficult to achieve.

I have more of a problem with them drying out to quickly with all the extra holes/ventillation to the root system... thats why i've been using the clay pebbles/hydroton to help keep the moisture in the pots longer, also aiding in lowing humidty by a few %
 

Fuzzy Duck

Well-Known Member
Just twigged their is one very common growth formation which can tell the sex of your plant grown from seed :cheer:

With out having to put the plant in 12/12 & await flowers/pistils to form.


Shows pre flowers - two pointy things makes a girl which are not flower bud/pistils in pic.
https://www.420magazine.com/forums/how-grow-marijuana/71168-what-preflowers.html

Cross referenced with wranglepx own girlie of bubbelicious :love: (page 4 -its a girl - pic)
https://www.420magazine.com/forums/journals-progress/153474-wranglers-1st-grow-nirvana-bubb-4.html

Unfortunaly i don't have a very good zoom function on the ol digi cam so ya gonna have to sit tight intill i can work soming better out :thumb:


So here's a quickie of girls so far, Fuzzys got 3 girls for christmas :circle-of-love:
004695.JPG


Excuss the minor defeciency, reasonable common issue which i think is assoicated with change of light time/nutrient change of feed/bulb possible etc

P.s

*Heat shield 400w HPS at 12 inch with out ill effect yet !
*No real L.S.T has been done.
*More of a learn as you grow experience, observation is key.
 
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