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2 Plant Jack Herer Fem, SCROG, DWC, COB LED Lights

Steve Jobs

Well-Known Member
More growth, then more tucking this morning. It's getting pretty full, not sure when to just let it start stretching upwards vs tucking or perhaps raising the screen like 2 inches to easier deal with everything. Here it was before the mornings tuck at the end of the light cycle.
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Also I think you’re good to let it stretch upwards now. You’re net is full time to let them go upwards. I’m assuming you’ve got a few feet of space to work with.
 

sativuhhh

Well-Known Member
I have a little bit of space, they will mostly be going up very soon. I'm thinking I might need to add another net above it can grow up into. I've just been letting the edges catch up and fill and sitting everything down in right.

The nute changes aren't that big of a deal. I can bend up the left corner of the res lid and stick my ph pen in and I have a harbor freight battery powered fluid pump that for 10 bucks that sucks it out and pushes it in. I mix in wide mouth 5 gallon water jugs and then pump into the res the 7 or so gallons. Pump does it in just a min or two. The corner lifts up without really effecting the plant movement, especially now.
 

sativuhhh

Well-Known Member
Well last night was awesome and then a little scary. Checked the water and it was 5.85 and great. Added in a gallon and a half probably. Did a bunch of tucking and really had things looking good and working. I did break one stem which uber sucked, and had one half break at the node but not fully. Taped it up and fingers crossed. It was still looking healthy this morning. Felt really good about it as I was closing it up for the night and then decided to take a good undercanopy pic and noticed something.....troubling.

On the left plant at the base of the trunk where it went into the hydroton rocks and rapid rooter. I had adjusted a week or two ago the water pump inside and turned the top feed back on for the right plant to stimulate extra root growth which worked fantastically. I turned on the one to the other plant slightly too just to try to get a drip to keep roots happy maybe as well. Well, today I touched the edge of the rapid rooter that was still remaining on the outside of the trunk and it was wet. I noticed a little very light surface mold maybe on it and a few of the top hydrotons. I peeled out the rapid rooter and got all the rocks off the top that looked remotely like they had anything. The now exposed trunk looked just fine and it hadn't gotten in that far. It didn't seem to do deep into the rocks either. Some light had made it's way thru the canopy to the site and I think started it. I've had cutout paper plates covering but they had shifted a bit as the plant grew and one edge got exposed. I refilled it with clean dry pebbles and then built a new big cover. Took cardboard and encased it in gorilla tape on both sides and made a tape cutout channel with center flares in the middle for the trunk. Then put some metal reflective tape on top to reflect light back up to the plants. I took a little hydro peroxide and some water on a paper towel and kinda wiped down the base of the trunk and lower branch nodes just in case. I'm hoping that zero light being able to go where it was and the cleanup of the branches (nothing came off on the towel, hopefully I was just paranoid) keeps it good. Added a little extra fresh hydroguard to the res as well just to stay extra safe. The right side plant had zero issues.

Pics to go along:
Last night tucked and ready for the light cycle.
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A little underside action:
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This morning, which I think I'm calling flowering/transition day 5. Did a very minimal tucking manipulation spreading things for it's rest time today after taking the pic.
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Now the base of the plant...does everything look normal to experienced eyes here? The tape is just the little cut flaps that are smooth on both sides.
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I think/hope that is just normal looking base? Touching it doesn't have any powder rub off or anything at all.
 

sativuhhh

Well-Known Member
Filled the res last night and moved the red led over to the right edge where the plants were still a little lower as it seemed to be boosting the most right under it. Hoping it makes that side catch up and spread the lights out a little bit to hit the edges a little better as well. PH was 5.88 and cruising. I think I'm going to just let it stretch and see what happens for a couple days. Probably still tuck some fan leaves to expose growth spots.

I keep reading do a defol at 9 days into flower and then 21 days. Hitting day 6 and it could use it! I'll try to hold out for a couple more days and not stress it out till then and will do a big trim unless someone has a reason to not.
 

sativuhhh

Well-Known Member
End of day 6 and there are so many fan leaves blocking out growth sites. I want to do so much trimming in the middle. Pushed a few leaves down more out of the way and led a couple of the edges out to fill but left it mostly alone. Trying a don't stress it for a couple days method. I had moved the red light over to the right side for a cycle and it seemed to really perk up that side of the tent. The back center had been the highest. Moved it over to the left side and exposed a few of those stems with lots of nodes nicely to all the lights, I think that side will shoot out. If so I may have to get another one of these red ones, the girls appear to like it a lot.
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PH went up 6.12, added in a gallon and a half or two of mixed nutes that was sitting at 5.4 to that should get it settled back down nicely.

Also I have 3 fans in the tent and a big exhaust with legit negative pressure. The high humidity readings during the dark period have be a little concerned. I have the meter sitting under the canopy but it read up to a high of 71 and low of 55%. Assuming the 71 was probably after sunset but before the lights turn on at 9pm. I haven't seen any moisture drops on leaves lately which is good, I did a few times a couple weeks ago in veg before I added the 3rd fan and when it needed the fan to move up top from the bottom of the tent. I now have one aimed up from below blowing under the scrog canopy and one on the back right blowing across the tops and the small tower in the left that oscillates across the tops. So things look drier than what I would think they would from the gauge.
Been reading other journals and as the buds from it's got me slightly worried about PM or the like. It seems like a lot of those problems are with soil grows though vs indoor dwc. Ordered a dehumidifier to be extra safe I'm going to keep in the room with the tent. There isn't much room at all in the tent with this monsters and the room isn't too big and stays mostly closed up and isn't lived in. Got one that lets you key in a target % to have it stay on and maintain so I'll probably just set it to 48% or so and let it rip and see how things go.

I also see people saying to use Z7 in the res in like every journal so I ordered the 2 part of that as well. Looks like it can complement the Hydroguard and you can never be too safe with roots right? Plus with the little algae in the top of the rooter before making the new covers it didn't seem like a terrible idea.
 

sativuhhh

Well-Known Member
I guess today is day 7. The stretch is happening, it's for sure going up and getting bigger. There was some moisture drops on some of the leaves again today. Adjusted the fans a bit and brushed all the leaves to knock off any droplets. I'm trying hard to hold out till 9 days on trimming again but it's getting dense!

It's drinking nicely and gave it a little ph down this morning, was at 6.12 and should now be at 5.8 or 5.9. Just going to keep letting it grow upwards now I guess.

How I came to see it first thing this morning, 11 hours of light in...
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sativuhhh

Well-Known Member
Humidity up at 70 still. Pulled out the little lame tower fan and put in a real tower fan that bareeeeely fit. 2x4 tent sure is tight. Also opened a flap partway on the bottom to let more air in. Exhaust was still easily maintaining negative pressure. I might have to figure out additional intake, it's weird with the screened rectangle flaps for using it and being able to also block light. Anyhow, the new fan is blowing everything significantly more now so that is good. Dehumidifier should be here tomorrow and hopefully I can get it to maintain a lower % overall. I should probably exhaust outside the room too.

Also this waiting till 9 days to defol is driving me nuts. I got out the sheers and sanitized them but decided to give it till tomorrow. I figure the fan leaves provide a little wind protection as it gets used to the bigger fan. I need to dig more into where I kept seeing 9 and 21 days to trim. On this super thick low scrog they are getting really big. Looking so pretty though!

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Also, I'm really glad I only grew 2 plants....this space is maxed out!
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sativuhhh

Well-Known Member
It drank a ton with all those leaves. Added water, ph was 5.9 and good. Humidity was still up, but with the new fan and more air there was no condensation which is great news. Also got overwhelmed with leaves and did a big defol so airflow would be even better and light would be more even and more room for everything to grow even. Took off a lower stem with some nodes I'm tempted to go get some cloning powder real quick to get it rooting. I don't have another spot to really grow it though so it'll probably just go into the fireplace.
 

sativuhhh

Well-Known Member
Well I don't even get it. Went in at 10pm and it was like 82% (on the dehumidifier) or something and way hotter in the room than it's ever been. Inside the tent was till reading 72% or so under the canopy. Leaves were all dry though with no condensation, at least that big fan is working. Did a little other trimming to ensure airflow and did a little tucking too. Took a little lower as a clone cutting. Opened a door and cooled the room down and left it on over night with the window ac on fan. Was cooler this morning but humidity was not fully managed. It did have like a cup or 2 of water in the dehumidifier res though. I think I need to add a better room humidity sensor to to along with the one inside the tent. With that temp rise it brought the res temp up to 73 when I was measuring ph this morning (5.95). Added a tsp of hydroguard just to be extra safe. Doing a res change tonight or morning, getting in some Z7 today so I figure I'll add it and let it do it's cleaning thing for a while then flush with fresh nutes.

Decided instead of just blowing fresh air in thru the window/wall ac unit thing I have, that I turned on the ac function. I figure that should dry out the air and ensure the room cools down and the res along with that as well. It's raining today and a good bit of next week. I guess I might just have to do the ac and dehumidifier combo till things all dry out.

Here it was at the end of light cycle this morning, rolling into Flowering day 9.
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Speaking of cuttings I kinda want to let them root, have em in water with a cfl and they actually look great, but I don't have a tent or another hydro setup to let em veg if they take. At least it's an interesting trial in taking a cutting and turning it into a clone to some degree. I have probably 7-8 weeks till harvest which I think they clones would be well into some serious vegging. My wife was not keen on adding a second tent. Anyone know a way to keep a clone going really really slow and small till ready to make it take off?
 

vyserage

Well-Known Member
Man the main airpump line was laying on the bottom of the tent this morning. Got it hooked back up and more air in. They were still looking good though. I didn't get as much time this morning to work on it and hang the red light. If my light goes off of it's 18/6 at 10am this morning, and is set to go back on at 4pm, if i left that happen and turned it back off at 6pm and then set it to start the 12/12 at 9pm with the light going on would those 2 hours of light mess things up? Or should i let it veg another day and turn off at 9am tomorrow morning and leave off for 12 hrs coming on at 9pm tomorrow night?
In cases like this, i just leave the lights off for additional time to 'set' it up for the 12/12. In my 3rd grow i believe i left the lights off for 24 hrs before i started 12/12. Kinda like a way to really tell your plants its that time of the season to start flowering. Its perfectly safe :)

Plants are looking good. The stretch during the dark period is serious. They all popped a few inches! Drank like 2+ gallons of water easy too. Day 2 has started with a little LST and a full res water change to ~50% of the transition week strength mix. Also lowered the lights down last night to about 15" from the 18" it was at. The info sheet on the lights says 12-18" for flower so I figured only 12 hours of light vs 18 I might as well move a little closer. Not sure if I should leave the lights more at veg height or flower height during the transition?
So in this case, you have some options. Its absolutely better to get your lights as close as possible to the plants during flowering, or at least after the stretch. The further your lights are, the more stretch you will get so you can use this to your advantage. Same being said for keeping them close. For example, if you have ample space and you feel your plants just arent very tall as you want, you could raise your light to induce more stretching. However if your space is limited, you could put them closer to encourage tighter node spacing and more compact/shorter plants. One thing is certain though, once stretch is over (21 days in flower) you absolutely want the lights as close as possible to encourage the best bud growth. The closer the light is to buds, the more umol's it gets. A plant can use i believe up to 1200 umol's without the addition of co2. The further the light is from plants tops, the less umol's its getting. This is why the top buds are always the biggest (aside from being a main stem vs side shoots), because they are receiving the best amount of umol's as they are closest to the light. Now whats good about your grow area and lights is you have perfect light coverage, that is to say your plants aren't outside directly under the light which means you are getting 'perfect light coverage'. The umol's from the light falls off incredibly quickly the further outside from directly under light, so you're golden in that case. Your buds will recieve the best light coverage they can get so its just about now getting the light as close as you can without burning the tops of leave/buds from having the light too close. Fans blowing on top of canopy definitely help immensenly so you can have the light closer. 12" is what you will want to try around day 21 to 25, when you're sure the stretch is done. From that point on you will want to keep a very close eye on the upper leaves to make sure they arent being nuked from light heat or intensity. if the leaves start turning crunchy or are all showing weird issues, leaf taco'ing up/inwards, thats a good sign the light needs to be backed off a bit.

Im not sure where you heard to do defoliation at f-day 8, but ive never heard of that even once. You usually do not want to do much if any defoliation during stretch UNLESS your aim is to stunt the stretching cause you're limited on Vertical space. The norm has always been to do a heavy defoliation a day or 2 before flip (day for hydro, 2-3 days for soil), and then by the time stretch is over on day 21 you do another final heavy defoliation. Throughout the remainder of flowering you can just do a couple to a few leaves every 2 or 3 days, if need be. Usually tucking leaves is done for those that dont want to cut more off.
 

sativuhhh

Well-Known Member
Thanks for joining in vyserage! Last night was a long night fixing up the grow. There is a window behind the tent so I went and got one of those plastic florescent light cover panels for offices 24"x48" and then cut a 4" hole in it and trimmed it down to fit right up in the window. Got some of the dual layer mylar insulation and spray glued a sheet to both sides and then installed it in the window with a dryer vent louver thing pushed out into the screen outside and pulled the window back mostly shut. Now it's nicely insulated and exhaust is going outside and the humidity feels under control.

The res had dropped a lot, it drank a couple gallons yesterday. Did a full res changeout and mixed up new nutes to the early bloom levels. Having to mix in like 11 things takes forever! Got my Z7 and added some in to the old nutes and let it circulate for a few hours before doing the res change hoping it'd do a nice clean n flush. Hoping for some happy plants!

Also built a 3rd intake to go in the tent. Decided to let a little more air in but it is coming from an upper port. Got a low profile vertical thing to run in up high in the tent and to put it all down low at canopy level so air will have to circulate out thru the canopy to get sucked out the filter.

This 12 hour timing is a pain, not being able to do anything till 9pm made last night go till 3:30am. Slept past lights out so now i'm just wondering how temp and humidity is doing till tonight I guess.
 

vyserage

Well-Known Member
sounds like you've been busy! From what i've read/heard about the Z7 is people use it like HydroGuard, a little with every watering. Throws me for a loop cause ive also read its used as a flush lol. I purchased the 2 bottles back before grow 3 and they are still sitting in my closet as i have not had the need for them. I also have h202 which i have never used :p Just the hydroguard has been enough to combat root rot in my case, plus adds the beneficials.

im actually wondering myself if i should get another fan for better canopy air circulation as the single tower fan i have in there, the side its on has bigger buds (including the back right plant that ive boasted has best growth with little defoliation). Its possible all this time that good growth has been from ample airflow but it could just be my imagination too haha.

As for the 12/12, you can always change it! Next time lights go off, leave them off for however much additional time you need them until you get to your target time. Extra off hours wont hurt the plant, especially if its just for a one time thing.

How often do you do a rez change? I go 30 days between changes.
 

sativuhhh

Well-Known Member
Seems the airflow and dancing makes the stems stronger and perhaps then thicker/more. More airflow means more co2 to the buds right? Would make sense you'd get more growth I think.

I do a full change every 7-10 days. Then I can refresh and adjust nutes by the week easily. I mix up 10 gallons, use 6 or 7 and then refresh with the leftover as it drinks. If you only change every 30 how do you maintain an even mix of added nutes and adjust over time?

On the Z7, my roots which always look stained from the nutes I think looked better with the z7 in for the 5 hours or so it was in. I'm excited to take a peek at them tonight, I pumped it in over the base of the net pots down all the roots as it said to do. Guess I'll see!
 

sativuhhh

Well-Known Member
Humidity problems are fully gone now! Venting it outside has brought the temp way down and humidity was at 49% Ph is cruisin at 5.88 and nice cool 63 degree res water. They are looking really good. Growth was getting close in to the clip fans so I decided it was time to move them up on the side poles. Taped em on, I sure hope it holds. The big tower fan with it's sort of gust speed function is nice to keep things random in there too. Hopefully it's just cruise control for a while.

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Fans seemed too close finally.

Fans moved and new intake installed on the right.
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Intake coming in.
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Exhaust now going out the window. Ordered some blackout curtains to hang over and will make a cutout thru to make it cleaner and better at light blocking.
Overall very happy with how perfectly it fit and what a difference it's made!
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vyserage

Well-Known Member
Nice one! You did all the extra efforts that i ignored and didnt feel the need to do since it all worked out my first grow haha. Also cause i didnt want to spend the extra money or time cause im lazy :p
 

vyserage

Well-Known Member
As for the 12/12, you can always change it! Next time lights go off, leave them off for however much additional time you need them until you get to your target time. Extra off hours wont hurt the plant, especially if its just for a one time thing.
I do believe having additional hours off makes plants mature faster during flower, so if the thought to have something like 11on/13off or more, thats not a good idea unless you're going for a quick lesser quantity bud. A single day to set a schedule isnt going to hurt.

More airflow means more co2 to the buds right? Would make sense you'd get more growth I think.
Thats kind of what i was thinking too. I need to either switch to a rotating disc fan for even air exchange across all plants, or i need to get an additional tower fan hung horizontal for the opposite side haha.

If you only change every 30 how do you maintain an even mix of added nutes and adjust over time?
In my case i have a much wider range of water, 7 5-gallon buckets of water with a total of 28 gallons of water that is recirculating through them all. In your case, if i ever did a bucket like yours i would try for every 10 days and see how it goes. If it does fine i'd try for 15 days in my next grow. If weird deficiencies and toxicities starting, id know 15 days was too long. Keep doing it how you are, thats good for a first grow.
 

sativuhhh

Well-Known Member
In my case i have a much wider range of water, 7 5-gallon buckets of water with a total of 28 gallons of water that is recirculating through them all. In your case, if i ever did a bucket like yours i would try for every 10 days and see how it goes. If it does fine i'd try for 15 days in my next grow. If weird deficiencies and toxicities starting, id know 15 days was too long. Keep doing it how you are, thats good for a first grow.
So with your situation then, with 28 gallons, how do you adjust nutes more frequently and in the week to week changes to account for what it's happened to absorb vs not. Do you just have to look for signs of lacking something and then add on the fly?
 
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