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A Base Treatment Regimen For Cancer

SweetSue

Member of the Year: 2015 & 2016 - Member of the Month: Mar 2015, Sept 2016 - Nug of the Month: Oct 2017 - Creme de la Creme Photos: Dec 2016
Alright perfect thank you I'm going to try making the oral capsules in the next day or so...

Just praying he will give the dosage changes a chance...It's a mystery to me why he's so resistant...

If you had to pick would you choose Evoo or coconut oil?

Also when mixing the CO with the carrier oil, do you heat the oils up at all?

But I'll keep trying, and also have to work on his diet to...

Thanks again I'm sure I'll be back with more questions soon
Didn’t answer those questions, did I? :laugh2:

I‘d go with EVOO. It’s absorbed directly into the lymphatic system, which is exactly where you want it. And heating the oils in a simple hot water bath is enough to get the oils and lecithin to mix well..

Good luck. :5:
 
Amazing thank you Sue...your kind message also lifted me up a little.

Sorry to bug you with more questions. How much does making the caps increase the bioavailability?

And also heating the oil to mix it with the carrier oil that won't change or affect the thc at all?

Thanks
Smokey
 

SweetSue

Member of the Year: 2015 & 2016 - Member of the Month: Mar 2015, Sept 2016 - Nug of the Month: Oct 2017 - Creme de la Creme Photos: Dec 2016
Heating in a hot water bath won’t have any adverse effects on the THC. It takes a lot, and I mean a lot to degrade THC. This only warms it enough to get a mix well-distributed.

According to Cajun this process increases bioavailability by more than double what we’d expect without. We have no lab data to back that up, only the happy stories of those who found relief with it and watched their numbers fall into more acceptable ranges.

Infused oil or CCO in a carrier oil, through the gut, you’re getting only about 10% bioavailability. We believe with this method of incorporating liquid sunflower lecithin you’re increasing that upwards to 80%.

Again, no lab work done to confirm this, and I believe those studies used coconut oil formulations, which get absorbed and sent straight to the liver for metabolization. It’s because the metabolite of delta-9 THC is the much more psychoactive 11-hydroxy THC that we get so high from edibles.

With olive oil, which we try to use for capsules, you’ll increase the bioavailability too, since it gets absorbed into the lymphatic system and will therefore be more available to the cells before being filtered into the blood.
 
Hi Sue,

Hope I can ask a couple more questions

The CO he's using is high in thc 69% but low in CBD so I've also been giving him a supplementry dose of a high CBD CO as well the combination of the two oils gives me a 2:1 ratio of thc to cbd....this is accomplished by taking a gram of each.

If I'm making the oral caps as you suggested can I mix the 2 grams of oil into the same propotions of Evoo and lecithin? This way I cam give him a combined oil.

If I have to double the Evoo and lechithin my concern is having to give him more capsules which is already a challenge.

Thanks
 
Hi Sue,

I have to pick your brain once again....

The recipe you gave calls for
1g of CCO + 20 ml of Carrier oil

add 3 more Tbsp of Carrier + 1 TBSP of Lecithin

I aslo was working out the numbers of the 5:1 recipee

But the problem Im having is the original recipe would be well over 100 - 00 size caps a day and even the 5-1 would be 8 caps a day...

Any idea how to tweak the recipe to get it down to 4 - size 00 caps per day...

Thanks and hope your enjoying the long weekend
 
OK seriously sorry to keep bugging you, so what ive come up with and wanted to get your thoughts....

The only way I could fit this formula into 4 size 00 caps is to do the

1 gram of CCO
1.25 ml of EVOO
125 ml of the sunflower lechithin....

Would this work or are the proportions vital to this

I really want to keep the number of caps hes taking daily to a minimum and I think anything over 4 he's just going to not bother

Thanks
 

SweetSue

Member of the Year: 2015 & 2016 - Member of the Month: Mar 2015, Sept 2016 - Nug of the Month: Oct 2017 - Creme de la Creme Photos: Dec 2016
OK seriously sorry to keep bugging you, so what ive come up with and wanted to get your thoughts....

The only way I could fit this formula into 4 size 00 caps is to do the

1 gram of CCO
1.25 ml of EVOO
125 ml of the sunflower lechithin....

Would this work or are the proportions vital to this

I really want to keep the number of caps hes taking daily to a minimum and I think anything over 4 he's just going to not bother

Thanks
Smokey, I just realized I hadn’t checked here in too long during this pandemic madness. Please forgive me. :5: I’m not adjusted yet to manning this room alone.

Let me back up....OK, I see the concern you had. And no, the proportions aren’t a cut in stone thing at all. Cannabis therapies are about as flexible as they can get.

What you have to do when you start mixing the oils with a carrier and lecithin is to stop thinking of it in strict cannabinoid values and simply start adjusting to fit the patient. The lecithin acts like a time-release element for THC, something CBD already does.

Lecithin supercharges absorption and CBD changes the way the body processes THC, so what we expect THC to do suddenly changes, and we have no way to really anticipate the reaction or results until the patient finds a workable dose and we start to see results in labs.

It’s one of those moments I’m so glad we work with such forgiving medicine.

By now you probably started him on what you’d worked out. How’s it going?
 

SweetSue

Member of the Year: 2015 & 2016 - Member of the Month: Mar 2015, Sept 2016 - Nug of the Month: Oct 2017 - Creme de la Creme Photos: Dec 2016
@Smokeythebandit, what I don’t think I explained well enough is that the formula Cajun left us increases bioavailability so much that the cannabinoids go much further. It takes a much smaller dose to get the same benefits.

One other thing..... it’s once again been pointed out to me that a blended oil using numerous strains offers major therapeutic benefits over an oil made with a singular strain or even two. If you think about how much such an oil would increase both minor cannabinoid and terpene profiles it’s easy for me to see how this could be.

The member I had the most recent conversation about this with was blending up to eight strains, and it was taking minuscule doses compared to “simple” oils he’d made previously.

Just a thought to consider as you start down this path. :5:
 

Old Salt

Member of the Year: 2019 - Member of the Month: Apr, Nov 2019
Hey Sue, what is the purpose of putting the resulting mix into the refrigerator overnight?

I'm using size 2 capsules to take my meds orally. My previous capsules used 3.5gm rosin per 100, for about 35mg per capsule. I didn't use the lecithin. I bought some, hopefully the good stuff, and will need to make some soon. Here's what I'll use:


Virgin Coconut Oil and Liquid Sunflower Lecithin for Capsules
The recipes I've seen show a ratio between 3:1 and 4:1 by volume for the coconut oil to lecithin. I'm also using rosin rather than an oil. My previous procedure has been to decarb the rosin, and melt the coconut oil, then mix them together, let them cool to about 50°C (122°F) and put the mix into my capsules. I plan to do the same, just adding the lecithin after the mix has cooled, as I don't know if heat will affect the lecithin.

My worry is that the mix will gel in the refrigerator so I'd need to re-heat it before putting it into the capsules. I did note that lecithin is used to reduce viscosity, so this may not be a problem. Do you know if this is so? Can I put the mix into capsules before refrigeration?
 

SweetSue

Member of the Year: 2015 & 2016 - Member of the Month: Mar 2015, Sept 2016 - Nug of the Month: Oct 2017 - Creme de la Creme Photos: Dec 2016
Hey Sue, what is the purpose of putting the resulting mix into the refrigerator overnight?

I'm using size 2 capsules to take my meds orally. My previous capsules used 3.5gm rosin per 100, for about 35mg per capsule. I didn't use the lecithin. I bought some, hopefully the good stuff, and will need to make some soon. Here's what I'll use:


Virgin Coconut Oil and Liquid Sunflower Lecithin for Capsules
The recipes I've seen show a ratio between 3:1 and 4:1 by volume for the coconut oil to lecithin. I'm also using rosin rather than an oil. My previous procedure has been to decarb the rosin, and melt the coconut oil, then mix them together, let them cool to about 50°C (122°F) and put the mix into my capsules. I plan to do the same, just adding the lecithin after the mix has cooled, as I don't know if heat will affect the lecithin.

My worry is that the mix will gel in the refrigerator so I'd need to re-heat it before putting it into the capsules. I did note that lecithin is used to reduce viscosity, so this may not be a problem. Do you know if this is so? Can I put the mix into capsules before refrigeration?
:thumb:

Lecithin helps absorption, and I don’t worry anymore about close measurements, unless I’m doing a strict regimen. Just about every batch has to be titrations on its own to determine the potency anyway, and lecithin is so good for the body that I just don’t concern myself.

I’ve taken much the same attitude about decarbing, particularly after studying cannabinoids more closely. All cannabinoids help the body reach for homeostasis.

Lecithin also creates a time-release effect with the oils, yet another good reason to include it.

It seems like there’d be no gain from letting coconut oil and lecithin sit overnight, and yet I have some that’s been sitting in the fridge for weeks because we’ve discovered that for some unknown reason, doing so makes a more potent oil.

We lack the science to tell us what’s going on, but there’s no disputing our experiences that the oils that sit longer have a more pronounced potency from those that don’t. So I’d sit it a day anyway, gently bring it back to liquid form and fill the capsules after mixing it all up again. I can assure you the lecithin will settle out the first time. :laugh2:

Capsules get stored in the fridge, so I figure one 24-hour stint before filling won’t hurt. It gives me a chance to mix it all up again. Can’t hurt. :3: I’ve filled capsules without doing so, and to be honest, it’s be hard to say if there was much difference in the end.
 
Hi Sue,

Please don't apologize your help is invaluable.

Unfortunately it hasn't been going well he hasn't taken any of the caps I just made him. I really don't know where it changed forn him

The good news is I've been discussing suppositories with him and I'm hoping we cam go down that road.

If I cam trouble you again is there anything you cam offer me advice wise on how-to make the suppositories. And he seems open to taking it twice. 1 in the day and 1 at night so I'm willing to start there.

Thank you Sue....hope your keeping safe

@Smokeythebandit, what I don’t think I explained well enough is that the formula Cajun left us increases bioavailability so much that the cannabinoids go much further. It takes a much smaller dose to get the same benefits.

One other thing..... it’s once again been pointed out to me that a blended oil using numerous strains offers major therapeutic benefits over an oil made with a singular strain or even two. If you think about how much such an oil would increase both minor cannabinoid and terpene profiles it’s easy for me to see how this could be.

The member I had the most recent conversation about this with was blending up to eight strains, and it was taking minuscule doses compared to “simple” oils he’d made previously.

Just a thought to consider as you start down this path. :5:
 

Old Salt

Member of the Year: 2019 - Member of the Month: Apr, Nov 2019
Hi Sue,

Please don't apologize your help is invaluable.

Unfortunately it hasn't been going well he hasn't taken any of the caps I just made him. I really don't know where it changed forn him

The good news is I've been discussing suppositories with him and I'm hoping we cam go down that road.

If I cam trouble you again is there anything you cam offer me advice wise on how-to make the suppositories. And he seems open to taking it twice. 1 in the day and 1 at night so I'm willing to start there.

Thank you Sue....hope your keeping safe
Suppositories are just larger capsules. I use a capsule machine to hold the bodies while I fill them, and to close them. A syringe with a dispensing tip, aka blunt needle, is used to fill the capsules. I've gone as high as 25% rosin in my capsules. I like rosin as it has no solvents left from the extraction process. I also use colored capsules so that I can identify the different mixes or strengths of the contents.


Capsules, and Filling Machines

Sue will have a better idea of the strains to use. What I found in "CBD, A Patient’s Guide to Medicinal Cannabis" by
Leonard Leinow and Juliana Birnbaum is...

In General for Cancer: Using cannabis as a therapy to reduce cancer activity and tumor size does require high doses of cannabis medicine. THC is very effective in shrinking the tumor size, and CBD is very effective in stopping the proliferation of new cancer cells. While both THC and CBD are effective anti-cancer agents, the combination of CBD and THC together has exhibited even greater efficacy for healing. There is a true synergistic relationship between CBD and THC; the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. There is evidence that a combination of the various cannabinoids and terpenes found in products derived from the whole plant is the most effective approach...

...“In addition to active cannabinoids, cannabis plants also contain a multitude of other therapeutic agents,” said Dr. David Meiri, a lead researcher in an Israeli study considered the most in-depth so far on cancer patients and cannabis and involving fifty different strains of cannabis and over two hundred cancer cell lines. “Terpenoids and flavonoids are usually present in small quantities, but can have beneficial therapeutic effects, especially as synergistic compounds to cannabinoids.” Varieties high in myrcene, limonene, and linalool are recommended.

Specifically for Lung Cancer: A 2010 study first provided evidence for the mechanism underlying the anti-invasive action of CBD on human lung cancer cells. German research published in 2012 demonstrated for the first time the chemical process by which CBD induces cancer cell death in human lung cancers.

SK was diagnosed with stage 4 terminal lung cancer. She was told there was no viable treatment and was given six to nine months to live. She took cannabis oil for seven months. The second scan found no active cancer cells in her body—she was cancer free. The oncologist said this was new territory for her as she had never heard of “full metabolic response” on the standard pharmaceutical treatments.

Dosing and Delivery: Dosage for advanced cancer is generally in the macro dose range, with a suggested range of 200 mg to 2,000 g of total cannabinoids per day. The most commonly suggested ratio of CBD to THC is 1:1. However, at the macro dose level, patients often have difficulty tolerating medication with the higher amount of THC. At the beginning stages of taking macro doses, most are not able to tolerate more than 20–30 mg THC from an oral application. Over a four-to-six-week period, patients are able to increase their tolerance level and become acclimated to high doses.
__________________________________________________________________​

Notes:
  • THC and CDB are recommended, meaning that the cannabinoids used must be decarboxylated to convert their acids.
  • I use 70% of the weight of my rosin as an approximation of its cannabinoid content, if it has not been tested.
  • From studying RSO (Rick Simpson Oil), count on using cannabinoids from at least a pound (454gm) of high-strength flower. Rick recommends strong indica plants to promote sleep.
  • If you are in Nova Scotia, around the HRM, PM me if you need more help. I have several varieties of rosin on hand and the equipment to extract rosin and make size 0 or size 2 capsules.

First Rosin Capsules Made

Last Rosin Capsules Made

Note: You can click on the above images to view them full size.

I started by inserting ground dried flower into capsules. This yielded inconsistent results with a wide variation in strength. That is why I changed to using a concentrate. I decided on rosin as if there's alcohol in the house I'll drink it, high concentration ethanol costs over $90 CAD per liter, and a good still costs more than a good rosin press. Also traces of any solvent used will be found in the CCO it's used to extract.
 
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Old Salt

Member of the Year: 2019 - Member of the Month: Apr, Nov 2019
Alright perfect thank you I'm going to try making the oral capsules in the next day or so...

Just praying he will give the dosage changes a chance...It's a mystery to me why he's so resistant...

If you had to pick would you choose Evoo or coconut oil?

Also when mixing the CO with the carrier oil, do you heat the oils up at all?

But I'll keep trying, and also have to work on his diet to...

Thanks again I'm sure I'll be back with more questions soon
You might want to show him "Run From the Cure."
 
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You might want to show him "Run From the Cure."
Thanks Old Salt For the run down...I've actually shown him the video and he was up to a gram of cco daily and was getting fantastic results.

Someone or something convinced him to stop I honestly have no idea how or why it fell of the rails.

But I'm working my ass off with him to get back onto it and I thought to try suppositories and hope he's receptive to that.

Micro dosing has been a constant issue with him as he prefers loading 1 dose at night which I know is less than ideal. His amazing results were coming when he wss doing 3 doses a day so I'm hoping I can get him back to at least 2.

So the suppositories would just be inserting the capsule? And what size would be recommended to be the most comfortable.

I'm thinking I would have to increase the size of capsules from the 00 to get more cco oil in.

As I talked to Sue before my dad up until recently was taking 1 gram a day straight undiluted cco so she mentioned staying close to his current dose

Thanks all
 

Old Salt

Member of the Year: 2019 - Member of the Month: Apr, Nov 2019
Thanks Old Salt For the run down...I've actually shown him the video and he was up to a gram of cco daily and was getting fantastic results.

Someone or something convinced him to stop I honestly have no idea how or why it fell of the rails.

But I'm working my ass off with him to get back onto it and I thought to try suppositories and hope he's receptive to that.

Micro dosing has been a constant issue with him as he prefers loading 1 dose at night which I know is less than ideal. His amazing results were coming when he wss doing 3 doses a day so I'm hoping I can get him back to at least 2.

So the suppositories would just be inserting the capsule? And what size would be recommended to be the most comfortable.

I'm thinking I would have to increase the size of capsules from the 00 to get more cco oil in.

As I talked to Sue before my dad up until recently was taking 1 gram a day straight undiluted cco so she mentioned staying close to his current dose

Thanks all
Everything I've read has recommended as constant a level of cannabinoids as possible. That would mean three or more doses per day. Have you read the dosing information for RSO?

There could be something else driving your dad's reluctance to take cannabinoids. I can't speak on his behalf, but I can share my own journey, not with cancer but heart disease. Cannabiniods were not part of my 'cure.' I had a heart attack Sept 8, 2001, and was released on 911. No guidance was given for my recovery. I was scared spitless of a re-occurrence, and turned into a couch potato. Three years later I started having severe angina. I thought I fulfilled my purpose here on earth, and resigned myself to die. It took several months, but I slowly came to realize that there was more to accomplish. I still had lots to teach my grandchildren. We were fairly close, and they would have been devastated by my early departure. I decided to work at my recovery, not for me, but for my grandchildren.

That started a six month journey. I took my meds religiously, and began working out. At the onset, I could not walk around the block. Six months later I rode a century (100 miles/163Km in a day) to celebrate on the fourth anniversary of my heart attack. Sixteen years later, despite a stroke, calcified aortic valve, and reduced lung capacity, I'm still enjoying spending time with my grandchildren.

I needed, and found, something outside of myself to drive my recovery.
 
Thank you for writing this to me, I'm actually going to copy and send it to my dad.

We are also a very close family and he is incredibly close with his grandkids so this might light a fire.

With the suppositories do you just insert the capsule or make an actual suppository out of a mould.


Everything I've read has recommended as constant a level of cannabinoids as possible. That would mean three or more doses per day. Have you read the dosing information for RSO?

There could be something else driving your dad's reluctance to take cannabinoids. I can't speak on his behalf, but I can share my own journey, not with cancer but heart disease. Cannabiniods were not part of my 'cure.' I had a heart attack Sept 8, 2001, and was released on 911. No guidance was given for my recovery. I was scared spitless of a re-occurrence, and turned into a couch potato. Three years later I started having severe angina. I thought I fulfilled my purpose here on earth, and resigned myself to die. It took several months, but I slowly came to realize that there was more to accomplish. I still had lots to teach my grandchildren. We were fairly close, and they would have been devastated by my early departure. I decided to work at my recovery, not for me, but for my grandchildren.

That started a six month journey. I took my meds religiously, and began working out. At the onset, I could not walk around the block. Six months later I rode a century (100 miles/163Km in a day) to celebrate on the fourth anniversary of my heart attack. Sixteen years later, despite a stroke, calcified aortic valve, and reduced lung capacity, I'm still enjoying spending time with my grandchildren.

I needed, and found, something outside of myself to drive my recovery.
 

Old Salt

Member of the Year: 2019 - Member of the Month: Apr, Nov 2019
Thank you for writing this to me, I'm actually going to copy and send it to my dad.

We are also a very close family and he is incredibly close with his grandkids so this might light a fire.

With the suppositories do you just insert the capsule or make an actual suppository out of a mould.
Sue knows more about suppositories than I do. I've never used them. There's a squick factor there for me. I *THINK* capsules will be best, as a moulded product will need to be kept in the refrigerator.
 

SweetSue

Member of the Year: 2015 & 2016 - Member of the Month: Mar 2015, Sept 2016 - Nug of the Month: Oct 2017 - Creme de la Creme Photos: Dec 2016
I have a dedicated thread in suppositories:

Cannabis Oil Suppositories

I hope that helps. I’ve used capsules, and they work for suppositories, but the formed ones are much easier to use.

Smokey, let him find his way. Let yourself see him as healthy and happy and that energy can feed into his. Yeah....cosmic baby to the core. :laugh2:
 
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