A Base Treatment Regimen For Cancer

[sarah888]

Hi Sue, I'm so grateful to have found you and this thread. Can you please give me advice on my situation? I've been educating myself before I start making my suppositories but confused on dosing and carrier oil. I have a tumour either on my stomach or pancreas, also 2 nodules on my thyroid. I dont want any biopsies, surgery or chemo. I have some high grade rso, liquid sunflower lecithin and olive oil and full-spectrum cbd oil, size 00 veggie capsules. Am I missing anything?
I was reading the differences between carrier oils, I'm assuming olive oil is better for keeping the liver busy this way the tumors can be targetted?
Is there a specific ratio that targets these tumours better? I'm just confused because each condition has specific protocols and I'm not sure which one I should follow having 2 separate areas of tumours. Any advice would be greatly appreciated xo

 

[Smokeythebandit]

Just been doing some more reading over the net and there are lots of articles discussing the bioavailability or lack there of taking cannabis through a suppository...

I know you all have done a lot of research and work this, just wondering your thoughts on those who say the rectal administration is not good as most of the cannabinoid gets wasted

Thanks

 

[Mr. Krip]

Just been doing some more reading over the net and there are lots of articles discussing the bioavailability or lack there of taking cannabis through a suppository...

I know you all have done a lot of research and work this, just wondering your thoughts on those who say the rectal administration is not good as most of the cannabinoid gets wasted

Thanks

Not sure if you saw this link I posted some time ago: The Cannabis Oil Suppository Debate: Personal Testing & Results

 

[Smokeythebandit]

Not sure if you saw this link I posted some time ago: The Cannabis Oil Suppository Debate: Personal Testing & Results

Thanks Mr Krip I dont have the suppositories mould yet, so I was going to use gel caps I made canna bombs with....when inserting the 00 gel caps I was thinking about dipping it I'm oil before inserting to make it easier for one and second I read that gel caps need a lot of liquid to break down.

If using the gel caps would you do anything to them before inserting

Thank you

 

[Mr. Krip]

Thanks Mr Krip I dont have the suppositories mould yet, so I was going to use gel caps I made canna bombs with....when inserting the 00 gel caps I was thinking about dipping it I'm oil before inserting to make it easier for one and second I read that gel caps need a lot of liquid to break down.

If using the gel caps would you do anything to them before inserting

Thank you

OK, I know I'm gonna get some disagreement from some other members, but IMHO, I would NOT use gel caps for suppositories. They do need quite a bit of water to break down, which means they'll be absorbing it from your rectum and may not break down completely and could get "gummy" (for lack of a better word!)

If it were me, I'd get some oral syringes, inject the oil directly, and skip the gel cap altogether. That's just me, though!


EDIT: Just to be clear, you do NOT want the 10ml syringes!!! The 1ml will be plenty! Something like this:

 

[Smokeythebandit]

OK, I do know I'm gonna get some disagreement from some other members, but IMHO, I would NOT use gel caps for suppositories. They do need quite a bit of water to break down, which means they'll be absorbing it from your rectum and may not break down completely and could get "gummy" (for lack of a better word!)

If it were me, I'd get some oral syringes, inject the oil directly, and skip the gel cap altogether. That's just me, though!

So just inject the oil directly inside? Any idea how far to go up....I mean really getting rid of the gel cap sort of makes sense if you cant break it down...sorry for the silly question will there be any leakage?

 

[Mr. Krip]

Yup! Just inject the oil. As for how far up, I'd go at least as deep as the suppository would sit. If you were treating colon cancer, for example, probably the closest to the cancer would be best so you may want to go deeper. If you were just using the "suppository method" as a means of ingestion (possibly to avoid some of the euphoria), I would think suppository depth would be sufficient. Either way, you only have a few inches of syringe, so it won't be too deep. As far as leaking, I honestly don't know but would not think it would be an issue unless you're administering a pretty large dose pretty low in the rectum but I haven't done this personally and haven't heard any comments (or asked) the ones that have.

 

[Smokeythebandit]

Yup! Just inject the oil. As for how far up, I'd go at least as deep as the suppository would sit. If you were treating colon cancer, for example, probably the closest to the cancer would be best so you may want to go deeper. If you were just using the "suppository method" as a means of ingestion (possibly to avoid some of the euphoria), I would think suppository depth would be sufficient. Either way, you only have a few inches of syringe, so it won't be too deep. As far as leaking, I honestly don't know but would not think it would be an issue unless you're administering a pretty large dose pretty low in the rectum but I haven't done this personally and haven't heard any comments (or asked) the ones that have.

Thanks so much for the help....it's for lung cancer he was taking orally but doesn't want to do that anymore so this was a good compromise that he keep taking the oil

 

[SweetSue]

Thanks so much for the help....it's for lung cancer he was taking orally but doesn't want to do that anymore so this was a good compromise that he keep taking the oil

Thanks for the great answers Krip.

Smokey, I’ve recently used the syringe method, but instead of investing in syringes you can also use disposable pipettes.

3 ml disposable pipettes

• SweetSue
• May 13, 2020

I measure out 2-2.5 ml, depending on what I need. Insert just inside the sphincter and squeeze.

The syringes come in handy if you’re loading a batch for future use, because they’re more secure and can be capped, but those pipettes have been a godsend more than once when suppositories were in short supply.

 

[SweetSue]

Just been doing some more reading over the net and there are lots of articles discussing the bioavailability or lack there of taking cannabis through a suppository...

I know you all have done a lot of research and work this, just wondering your thoughts on those who say the rectal administration is not good as most of the cannabinoid gets wasted

Thanks

There are numerous cannabis clinicians who speak highly of the results their patients get with suppositories. We don’t yet understand the absorption process, and it’s obvious we currently lack the testing capacity to see what’s really going on biologically, but I assure you from personal experience that absorption is occurring, and without spacing you out.

Suppositories have ramped down pain nothing else could reach. That isn’t happening without absorption.

Within one run of labs you should see a noticeable difference and can adjust accordingly.

 

[SweetSue]

Hi Sue, I'm so grateful to have found you and this thread. Can you please give me advice on my situation? I've been educating myself before I start making my suppositories but confused on dosing and carrier oil. I have a tumour either on my stomach or pancreas, also 2 nodules on my thyroid. I dont want any biopsies, surgery or chemo. I have some high grade rso, liquid sunflower lecithin and olive oil and full-spectrum cbd oil, size 00 veggie capsules. Am I missing anything?
I was reading the differences between carrier oils, I'm assuming olive oil is better for keeping the liver busy this way the tumors can be targetted?
Is there a specific ratio that targets these tumours better? I'm just confused because each condition has specific protocols and I'm not sure which one I should follow having 2 separate areas of tumours. Any advice would be greatly appreciated xo

Good morning Sarah. Sorry to be so late finding this.

So let’s see what assurances I can offer you.

First off, olive oil is chosen because it gets absorbed into the lymphatic system first, which is where it can most efficiently bolster the immune response. It doesn’t much matter where in the system the tumors are, circulation and the call of the receptors takes care of location. To the best of our understanding those cannabinoids are called to the cells needing them.

Despite the individual concerns you’re treating, cannabis therapeutics requires you to do a slow taper from a low dose to find what your particular ECS can tolerate. With suppositories you can jump into higher loads faster, but you still need to prepare the system with initial slow steps in.

You have everything you need, from the list Although the capsules will work a molded suppository will always be more comfortable and be absorbed more quickly than a capsule. I’d start with a 2:1 THC:CBD initially, and see where that ratio takes you. After you see changes in labs you can adjust, if necessary.

Incidentally, the dissolving capsules don’t gum up like you’d expect. They actually absorb quite easily, all things considered. You’ll feel the “whoosh!” of release very soon after inserting. Having said that, formed suppositories will always be a more comfortable experience over the capsules.

 

[sarah888]

Hi Sue, Thank you so much for your input, really appreciate it. I just ordered some disposable 1ml syringes, would that work better than the capsules as well? If I order some suppository molds, is there a specific size that works best when it comes to measuring/dosing?
If I start with 2:1 thc:cbd ratio then how much olive oil and liquid lecithin would I use. I've been searching around the website for an exact recipe. Or do you have a current recipe as I know over time it changes a bit.
Thanks again

Good morning Sarah. Sorry to be so late finding this.

So let’s see what assurances I can offer you.

First off, olive oil is chosen because it gets absorbed into the lymphatic system first, which is where it can most efficiently bolster the immune response. It doesn’t much matter where in the system the tumors are, circulation and the call of the receptors takes care of location. To the best of our understanding those cannabinoids are called to the cells needing them.

Despite the individual concerns you’re treating, cannabis therapeutics requires you to do a slow taper from a low dose to find what your particular ECS can tolerate. With suppositories you can jump into higher loads faster, but you still need to prepare the system with initial slow steps in.

You have everything you need, from the list Although the capsules will work a molded suppository will always be more comfortable and be absorbed more quickly than a capsule. I’d start with a 2:1 THC:CBD initially, and see where that ratio takes you. After you see changes in labs you can adjust, if necessary.

Incidentally, the dissolving capsules don’t gum up like you’d expect. They actually absorb quite easily, all things considered. You’ll feel the “whoosh!” of release very soon after inserting. Having said that, formed suppositories will always be a more comfortable experience over the capsules.

 

[Old Salt]

Hi Sue, Thank you so much for your input, really appreciate it. I just ordered some disposable 1ml syringes, would that work better than the capsules as well? If I order some suppository molds, is there a specific size that works best when it comes to measuring/dosing?
If I start with 2:1 thc:cbd ratio then how much olive oil and liquid lecithin would I use. I've been searching around the website for an exact recipe. Or do you have a current recipe as I know over time it changes a bit.
Thanks again

I've been looking at suppository molds. They are available in several sizes, 1, 2, and 3ml. The 1ml is usually for children. The 2ml is the normal size used for adults, and is plenty large enough for the vast majority of people.

An exact recipe depends on the strength of your concentrate (oil or rosin), and your desired results. I use four parts coconut oil to one part liquid lecithin to bring the volume up to what I want. Note that any concentrate or infusion needs to be decarbed if you want the non-acidic forms of the cannabinoids (THC vs THCa). If you use an oil infusion, just add 1/3 the volume of liquid lecithin.

The mold I'm looking at is described as Silicone suppository mould - reusable, sterilised 48 X 2ml on e-Bay. The single use molds, such as 100 Empty Suppository Moulds 2ml + FREE! 3ml Filling Pipettes cost about half that. You may need to watch your temperatures if you decide on the single use molds.

 

[sarah888]

Makes sense with the strength, forgot to mention .. my rso is about 70-80%
Thank you for the suggestions

I've been looking at suppository molds. They are available in several sizes, 1, 2, and 3ml. The 1ml is usually for children. The 2ml is the normal size used for adults, and is plenty large enough for the vast majority of people.

An exact recipe depends on the strength of your concentrate (oil or rosin), and your desired results. I use four parts coconut oil to one part liquid lecithin to bring the volume up to what I want. Note that any concentrate or infusion needs to be decarbed if you want the non-acidic forms of the cannabinoids (THC vs THCa). If you use an oil infusion, just add 1/3 the volume of liquid lecithin.

The mold I'm looking at is described as Silicone suppository mould - reusable, sterilised 48 X 2ml on e-Bay. The single use molds, such as 100 Empty Suppository Moulds 2ml + FREE! 3ml Filling Pipettes cost about half that. You may need to watch your temperatures if you decide on the single use molds.

 

[Smokeythebandit]

Thank you Sue,

I just started him on suppositories I'd say 4 days now and I can honestly say I've personally seem noticableable difference especially in his appetite.

AND the best part is I'm not having to fight him to take them, he actually let's me know when its time so I'm thankful to you especially for suggesting it.

I honestly don't know where this will go, obviously praying for best results here but can also say hes now on a stronger chemotherapy than before and the weaker chemo had him on his ass. Since the suppositories he's been tired clearly but is living a more normal life, eating, laughing more and more energy so if that turns out to be the only benefits I'd still take it

Thank you, especially Sue and everyone else who has contributed...I can't tell u all how grateful I am

There are numerous cannabis clinicians who speak highly of the results their patients get with suppositories. We don’t yet understand the absorption process, and it’s obvious we currently lack the testing capacity to see what’s really going on biologically, but I assure you from personal experience that absorption is occurring, and without spacing you out.

Suppositories have ramped down pain nothing else could reach. That isn’t happening without absorption.

Within one run of labs you should see a noticeable difference and can adjust accordingly.

 

[SweetSue]

Thank you Sue,

I just started him on suppositories I'd say 4 days now and I can honestly say I've personally seem noticableable difference especially in his appetite.

AND the best part is I'm not having to fight him to take them, he actually let's me know when its time so I'm thankful to you especially for suggesting it.

I honestly don't know where this will go, obviously praying for best results here but can also say hes now on a stronger chemotherapy than before and the weaker chemo had him on his ass. Since the suppositories he's been tired clearly but is living a more normal life, eating, laughing more and more energy so if that turns out to be the only benefits I'd still take it

Thank you, especially Sue and everyone else who has contributed...I can't tell u all how grateful I am

Well.... this made a great start to the day.

We’re honored to have helped you make his life easier Smokey.

 

[Old Salt]

Makes sense with the strength, forgot to mention .. my rso is about 70-80%
Thank you for the suggestions

Due to the way RSO is made, the cannabinoids are already decarboxylated. Now you just need to calculate how much RSO, oil, and lecithin to add. Lets use 25 suppositories with a dose of 50mg THC each as our batch.

We need enough to fill 25 capsules, so our desired volume is 25 * 2ml = 50 ml
mix up this volume of a oil / lecithin mix in a 1:4 ratio
lecithin = (1/(1+4)) * 50 = 10ml
oil = (4/(1+4)) * 50 = 40ml

RSO = number of capsules x dose / THC content = 25 * 50mg / (70/100) = 1786mg
Measure this out into a measuring cup or glass that is marked at 50ml.

You'll have to heat all of the components to get them to flow and mix easily. Yes, we have made more of the oil/lecithin mix than we need. This is to ensure we have enough to make the final product.

Pour enough of the oil/lecithin mix into the RSO to bring the volume up to 50ml. Mix together well, and fill your suppositories. With the measurement errors, you should have enough for 24 - 26 of them.

You can use measuring cups or beakers to do this in. I have some smaller 100 ml measuring glasses. You should be able to find them in stores like Walmart, or on-line.

Using this this method, you can make your suppositories as strong or weak as you wish. It really is the only semi-accurate method if you don't know the specific gravity (weight/volume) of all the components. I have measured it for rosin, and it varies between 0.95 and 1.1, depending on the strain and the way it was pressed.

 

[DonkeyDick]

Bookmarked for reference. Thanks OS!

 

[Smokeythebandit]

Hi Sue or anyone else wanted to get your opinion, one of your first messages to me suggesting the efficacy of suppositories is why I'm able to give them to him

My understanding is that they absorb a great deal more rso than taking it orally.

For cancer would you still recommend attempting to get up to 1 g of cco using the suppositories

Right now I've made them so he takes 1 in the morning and 1 at night

Theirs 142 mg of thc in each suppository

Then he's taking orally 2 caps spread out with 82.5 mg of thc

So total thc for the day he's at roughly 450.

The suppositories don't seem to bother him at all and I don't know if you remember we was taking orally 1 gram for some time.

I'd like to ramp his suppositories up higher and keep the 2 orally swallowed caps the same. So he's getting 4 doses a day.

For my next round of suppositories my cco tests at 69% so roughly 690 mg per gram of cco.

Would you recommend trying to just make 2 suppositories daily with the 690 split In 2 or...makes it simple that way or would you take it slower

Thanks

Well.... this made a great start to the day.

We’re honored to have helped you make his life easier Smokey.

 

[SweetSue]

Hi Sue or anyone else wanted to get your opinion, one of your first messages to me suggesting the efficacy of suppositories is why I'm able to give them to him

My understanding is that they absorb a great deal more rso than taking it orally.

For cancer would you still recommend attempting to get up to 1 g of cco using the suppositories

Right now I've made them so he takes 1 in the morning and 1 at night

Theirs 142 mg of thc in each suppository

Then he's taking orally 2 caps spread out with 82.5 mg of thc

So total thc for the day he's at roughly 450.

The suppositories don't seem to bother him at all and I don't know if you remember we was taking orally 1 gram for some time.

I'd like to ramp his suppositories up higher and keep the 2 orally swallowed caps the same. So he's getting 4 doses a day.

For my next round of suppositories my cco tests at 69% so roughly 690 mg per gram of cco.

Would you recommend trying to just make 2 suppositories daily with the 690 split In 2 or...makes it simple that way or would you take it slower

Thanks

All day yesterday I was thinking, “When I hear from Smokey next I want to remember to tie down the particulars.“ Here you were ahead of the game.

OK...with cancer treatment the most important feature appears to be consistency of scheduling. As Cajun said over and over, keep that pressure on the tumor cells with a steady and consistent dose coming in. So, whatever you're giving him orally is covering one critical pathway in and protecting his gut. The suppositories get more cannabinoids in. If you can get him to start using a topical somehow you’ll cover yet another pathway in, and offer the body more reserve troops out on the outer edges where the ECS may be more stressed during this time.

I‘m a fan of multiple methods and pathways.

IMH and untrained opinion, 450 mg of THC in a day, administered in two doses, is a fair start. When you up the dose give it a week and watch your dad closely before going any higher. If anything I’d consider another dose midday and hold at that level with the two oral doses for a while. That would put you close enough to the gram a day, and I’m not certain that high dose is necessary.

I also don’t think it’d hurt anything to get to a gram a day, and to be honest, I often wonder if Rick Simpson wasn’t onto something with that protocol. Suppositories take away the complication of being stoned on that dose, but keep in mind that they also give more access to the cannabinoid load. Where most of Simpson’s followers got low bioavailability through the gut, your father will be getting much more bang for the buck through the back door.

If he‘s on board with it and you’re watching him carefully I don’t see the harm in trying. Take a look at labs first and make your best guess for his best outcomes. In the end it’s all about quality of life, and I feel strongly that assisting the body in its homeostatic signaling by sending in troops to back it up when it’s out of kilter can only be a good thing.

And the propaganda fear mongers think all we do is grow to get high.