420 Magazine Background

Acapulco & Blue Cheese Auto

780grow

Well-Known Member
I want to go at least a couple more weeks! However want and need is very different.... Aiming for 10% ambers on this one since shes a sativa, BC will get 25% amber. Will be checking trichomes daily. Not sure if my schedule will work with a flush at the end but we will see
 
Last edited:

780grow

Well-Known Member
Day 75, day 42 flower

Fed with week 6 nutes at 980ppm. 2nd level buds fattening up. Leaves are all green and healthy as well. Still seeing decent amount of clear trichomes.
I usually dont measure runoff but curious to what it was at...read over 2300ppm...could be my catch tray not cleaned properly and dry residue nutes were present. I will continue to measure runoff but with a clean tray so i can see how much ppm drops when i start flushing.

20200215_201941.jpg
20200215_201816.jpg
20200215_201807.jpg
 

780grow

Well-Known Member
Day 78, day 45 flower

Bluecheese auto -
Today is the first day of our 10 day 'flush' with ph only tap water. Through the next week i believe we will see lots of leaves yellowing and dying off as the plant starts eating itself as we cut off her food supply. She about to go from a real nice looking plant to a not so pretty looking plant.
 

Emilya

Member of the Month: Mar 2019 - Grow Journal of the Month: Jan 2020
Day 78, day 45 flower

Bluecheese auto -
Today is the first day of our 10 day 'flush' with ph only tap water. Through the next week i believe we will see lots of leaves yellowing and dying off as the plant starts eating itself as we cut off her food supply. She about to go from a real nice looking plant to a not so pretty looking plant.
why would you voluntarily do this?
 

780grow

Well-Known Member
I know flushing has become more of a stoners myth but for my own personal preference, whether or not it assists with anything besides 'killing' off a plant, i will continue to flush.... :nervous-guy:
 

Grand Daddy Black

Well-Known Member
I know flushing has become more of a stoners myth but for my own personal preference, whether or not it assists with anything besides 'killing' off a plant, i will continue to flush.... :nervous-guy:
IMO, doing it your way is important. I must confess, however, the only thing I flush around here is the toilet (when I remember to do that)! :Rasta:
 

780grow

Well-Known Member
IMO, doing it your way is important. I must confess, however, the only thing I flush around here is the toilet (when I remember to do that)! :Rasta:
You and many people....trust me when i say i read hours upon hours on whether to flush or not....i wish there wasnt so much science on benefits of NOT flushing....obviously this is for a reason, because it probably doesnt do anything positive for the plant....i really didnt want to flush after reading everything but peace of mind for myself and myself only is the reason for flushing
 

Emilya

Member of the Month: Mar 2019 - Grow Journal of the Month: Jan 2020
You're not flushing by giving plain water at the end, you are simply starving your plants with no benefits to doing so. Flushing is something you should do to the soil, not the plants, especially at the end when they need the most nutrients to finish out the buds.
 

780grow

Well-Known Member
You're not flushing by giving plain water at the end, you are simply starving your plants with no benefits to doing so. Flushing is something you should do to the soil, not the plants, especially at the end when they need the most nutrients to finish out the buds.
I suspect the plant will cannibalize itself when being starved of nutrients, so it will start using the nutrients in the leaves?
Another reason for my flushing is because it also shows in my feed chart, as well, when i spoke with greenplanet rep about their dense product he said to make sure to flush it for at least a week.
I should have done more water only feed throughout this grow but unfortunetely i cant undo this.

For all i know im just sacrificing my yields by flushing so i may reassess flushing again for lambs breath. But AG and BC will still be flushed to rid of remaining"nutrients" in the leaves.
 

Emilya

Member of the Month: Mar 2019 - Grow Journal of the Month: Jan 2020
I suspect the plant will cannibalize itself when being starved of nutrients, so it will start using the nutrients in the leaves?
Another reason for my flushing is because it also shows in my feed chart, as well, when i spoke with greenplanet rep about their dense product he said to make sure to flush it for at least a week.
I should have done more water only feed throughout this grow but unfortunetely i cant undo this.

For all i know im just sacrificing my yields by flushing so i may reassess flushing again for lambs breath. But AG and BC will still be flushed to rid of remaining"nutrients" in the leaves.
Keep researching the science behind this practice and you will find that it's not possible to flush the plants of nutrients and that removing their taste from the final product is the job of the cure.
 

780grow

Well-Known Member
Ive lost multiple nights of sleep from so much info back and forth on flushing so i basically just flipped a coin. As much as i didnt want to flush i bit the bullet on this one! On my lambs breath i may start doing feed feed flush feed feed flush, and not do a final flush. Science tells me to not flush, thoughts and intuition tells me to....and im typically a science guy so this was indeed a hard one.
 

Emilya

Member of the Month: Mar 2019 - Grow Journal of the Month: Jan 2020
flush means to move 3x the container size of fresh water through the soil. Giving just plain water is not flushing, it is giving plain water. And when you see flushing on your feed chart, it probably means that on one of your plain water days they mean for you to do one of these 3x flushes. The typical way to run synthetic nutes is to feed/water/feed/water for a couple or three weeks, do a flush one day, and then continue with the pattern.
That being said, what you are doing is not going to hurt a thing... but I wanted you to hear why the term flush irks me like it does. That flush at the end was for as long as I can remember until recently, it was done 2 weeks before the end and then you kept going with the feed pattern. We used to believe that it was necessary to starve the plant for a week or so at the end to tell it to hurry up, but that old school method has now been debunked and we know that there is a much better way to do things. This is one of the reasons that pot grown today is so much better than pot grown yesteryear... we now have better methods.
 

780grow

Well-Known Member
flush means to move 3x the container size of fresh water through the soil. Giving just plain water is not flushing, it is giving plain water. And when you see flushing on your feed chart, it probably means that on one of your plain water days they mean for you to do one of these 3x flushes. The typical way to run synthetic nutes is to feed/water/feed/water for a couple or three weeks, do a flush one day, and then continue with the pattern.
That being said, what you are doing is not going to hurt a thing... but I wanted you to hear why the term flush irks me like it does. That flush at the end was for as long as I can remember until recently, it was done 2 weeks before the end and then you kept going with the feed pattern. We used to believe that it was necessary to starve the plant for a week or so at the end to tell it to hurry up, but that old school method has now been debunked and we know that there is a much better way to do things. This is one of the reasons that pot grown today is so much better than pot grown yesteryear... we now have better methods.
Hahaha yes i read your comment about using the term 'flush'....i know its a term thrown around loosely.

Im currently watering to slight runoff but definitely not putting 3x water into my pot. I will be watering with ph only..im not really flushing i guess...just watering without nutes until harvest
 

Emilya

Member of the Month: Mar 2019 - Grow Journal of the Month: Jan 2020
Hahaha yes i read your comment about using the term 'flush'....i know its a term thrown around loosely.

Im currently watering to slight runoff but definitely not putting 3x water into my pot. I will be watering with ph only..im not really flushing i guess...just watering without nutes until harvest
I used to do that too... every time... and then I tried a side by side comparison... fed one to the end and starved the other one. There was a huge difference and I have never starved a plant at the end after that, especially after realizing that organic grows finish out so nicely exactly because they have nutes right up to the end.
It's just another method to grow this weed... everyone has a style... but do yourself a favor one time, and try that side by side... just to see it. Also try flushing the salts free of your soil a few times during a grow just to see what happens compared to the rest of the room. :)
Question everything, test what you can. - Wee'zard
 

Emilya

Member of the Month: Mar 2019 - Grow Journal of the Month: Jan 2020
Science tells me to not flush, thoughts and intuition tells me to...
Science does not tell you this... you just think it does because some of the cool kids have recently been promoting a practice of not flushing, and in that conversation the actual meaning of the word flush has been convoluted to the point that people are now confused all over the planet. To convince people of the validity of their argument they are using one quasi scientific article without peer review to argue their point and to continue this silly conversation while developing a small ;following of rebellious "neverflushers." Whatever...
There are clear and scientific reasons to flush, and I mean 3x such as to clear nute lockouts but most commonly it is to clear the soil of any built up nutes or nutes that no longer serve a purpose, such as changing over from veg to bloom, and salt. Salt is the byproduct of EDTA chelated nutes. When the nute becomes available to the plant, that nute dumps a load of salt in your soil. Salt is bad, and it restricts the roots ability to take up water and it reduces the cation exchange rate of the soil, or the ability of soil to hold nutes until the roots can take them up. Salt can lock up a plant so it can not take up nutrients.
So flushing 3x has been a common gardening practice since there were bottled nutrients and container grows. It is a thing. It is right now terribly misunderstood, but it is a necessary thing if you wish to unleash the power of your nutes and soil to allow your plants to reach their full expression, if you are growing with these types of nutes. Organic gardeners do not need to flush. Megacrop gardeners don't need to flush. Coco growers watering to 20% runoff each time do not need to flush. But just about anyone else running synthetic EDTA chelated nutes, needs to flush periodically and especially 2 weeks before the end, again, if they want to unleash the full genetics of their plants.
 

780grow

Well-Known Member
Because im not doing 3x flush and just a nornal watering without nutes i think my soil will still have some nutes in it for one or more waterings. I think my last watering will really be the only one without nutes left then it may start eating itself after that. I think this way it at least gives them time to slowly adjust to no nutrients being provided rather than shock the hell out of them with a 3x flush.

Is this still considered "flushing before harvest" or does flushing before harvest consist of 3x water?
 

Grand Daddy Black

Well-Known Member
Science does not tell you this... you just think it does because some of the cool kids have recently been promoting a practice of not flushing, and in that conversation the actual meaning of the word flush has been convoluted to the point that people are now confused all over the planet. To convince people of the validity of their argument they are using one quasi scientific article without peer review to argue their point and to continue this silly conversation while developing a small ;following of rebellious "neverflushers." Whatever...
There are clear and scientific reasons to flush, and I mean 3x such as to clear nute lockouts but most commonly it is to clear the soil of any built up nutes or nutes that no longer serve a purpose, such as changing over from veg to bloom, and salt. Salt is the byproduct of EDTA chelated nutes. When the nute becomes available to the plant, that nute dumps a load of salt in your soil. Salt is bad, and it restricts the roots ability to take up water and it reduces the cation exchange rate of the soil, or the ability of soil to hold nutes until the roots can take them up. Salt can lock up a plant so it can not take up nutrients.
So flushing 3x has been a common gardening practice since there were bottled nutrients and container grows. It is a thing. It is right now terribly misunderstood, but it is a necessary thing if you wish to unleash the power of your nutes and soil to allow your plants to reach their full expression, if you are growing with these types of nutes. Organic gardeners do not need to flush. Megacrop gardeners don't need to flush. Coco growers watering to 20% runoff each time do not need to flush. But just about anyone else running synthetic EDTA chelated nutes, needs to flush periodically and especially 2 weeks before the end, again, if they want to unleash the full genetics of their plants.
@Emilya, I was so happy when you said "Megacrop gardeners don't need to flush." :Rasta: Hadn't really given it much consideration, but now I feel free to never give it a thought!
 

Emilya

Member of the Month: Mar 2019 - Grow Journal of the Month: Jan 2020
Because im not doing 3x flush and just a nornal watering without nutes i think my soil will still have some nutes in it for one or more waterings. I think my last watering will really be the only one without nutes left then it may start eating itself after that. I think this way it at least gives them time to slowly adjust to no nutrients being provided rather than shock the hell out of them with a 3x flush.

Is this still considered "flushing before harvest" or does flushing before harvest consist of 3x water?
No, i consider only a 3x a flush... and prolonged water only as starvation. The reason we do nutes/water/nutes/water is that by design, the plants do not take up all the nute from the first pass. We then water with correctly pH adjusted water the next time so as to reactivate the left over nutes for a second chance to uptake into the plant. If you are giving the correct amount of nutes, the plant pretty well cleans up the soil after each of these nute/water passes. What is left over is salt. Lots of it. And it builds up over time until it becomes a problem.
So again, the myth is that by giving water only at the end we force the plant to eat itself, and clear itself of nutes. Sorry... this does not happen. We used to think it did, but it doesn't. Pretty much the same plant sugars and other things that were made with the nutes appear in our buds and leaves whether we starve them at the end or not. And then when we cure the product afterward... it all converts to other things. You don't smoke nutes. Its a myth. And, the other myth, that you can flush the plant at the end... you can't flush a plant... you can only flush soil. And then shock... would a sudden and prolonged fall thunderstorm shock a plant outside? You are assigning human reactions and emotions to a plant... you are overthinking this.
But, again... you are doing nothing here that 1000s havent done before you, all thinking it was the best thing to do. I have been there. Talk to some seasoned gardeners... ones that have been doing this all their lives. Get their opinions too... don't just go by a couple of popular threads or something on youtube as gospel on this important matter, especially when it directly conflicts with what real master gardeners believe to be true. Consider that here I am... trying hard to convince you about this little bitty piece of the overall growing puzzle... why? why would I waste my time if I didn't believe what I say to be true? Why would I put it out here for public scorn and ridicule, if I didn't know what I say to be factual? So there is that. I have given it my best... now it is up to you to do what you feel is best and learn from whatever happens. I commend you on taking a stand and going into this with eyes wide open, this is how we learn.
 

780grow

Well-Known Member
@Emilya, I was so happy when you said "Megacrop gardeners don't need to flush." :Rasta: Hadn't really given it much consideration, but now I feel free to never give it a thought!
Considering all my grows from this point on will be MC i am also quite happy to hear this! :party:

No, i consider only a 3x a flush... and prolonged water only as starvation. The reason we do nutes/water/nutes/water is that by design, the plants do not take up all the nute from the first pass. We then water with correctly pH adjusted water the next time so as to reactivate the left over nutes for a second chance to uptake into the plant. If you are giving the correct amount of nutes, the plant pretty well cleans up the soil after each of these nute/water passes. What is left over is salt. Lots of it. And it builds up over time until it becomes a problem.
So again, the myth is that by giving water only at the end we force the plant to eat itself, and clear itself of nutes. Sorry... this does not happen. We used to think it did, but it doesn't. Pretty much the same plant sugars and other things that were made with the nutes appear in our buds and leaves whether we starve them at the end or not. And then when we cure the product afterward... it all converts to other things. You don't smoke nutes. Its a myth. And, the other myth, that you can flush the plant at the end... you can't flush a plant... you can only flush soil. And then shock... would a sudden and prolonged fall thunderstorm shock a plant outside? You are assigning human reactions and emotions to a plant... you are overthinking this.
But, again... you are doing nothing here that 1000s havent done before you, all thinking it was the best thing to do. I have been there. Talk to some seasoned gardeners... ones that have been doing this all their lives. Get their opinions too... don't just go by a couple of popular threads or something on youtube as gospel on this important matter, especially when it directly conflicts with what real master gardeners believe to be true. Consider that here I am... trying hard to convince you about this little bitty piece of the overall growing puzzle... why? why would I waste my time if I didn't believe what I say to be true? Why would I put it out here for public scorn and ridicule, if I didn't know what I say to be factual? So there is that. I have given it my best... now it is up to you to do what you feel is best and learn from whatever happens. I commend you on taking a stand and going into this with eyes wide open, this is how we learn.
Greatly appreciate your input on this, i consider you as a seasoned and experience grower along with many on 420mag so your comments all are highly valued. Ive read many of your posts regarding this debate from other threads as well. For simplicity here i will use the term 'flush' as 2 weeks before harvest, with water feeds only.
Ive asked many growers whether they will 'flush' and i can say all have recently come back with NO. That really was not surprising as so much proven info ive read steers me in the direction of no flush required before harvest. Why am i still flushing? Well because im following my feed chart and the rep at green planet mentioned to do so. Do i want to?not really, but i figured if even green planet rep is telling me to then there must be something in their nutes that would suggest a flush at the end is beneficial or necessary
I can say im very open minded about this topic and will continue to read and learn about this process.
Before this last week i would have never considered not flushing but after a week of reading im more on the side of #teamnoflush.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom