Adjusting your pH when growing in soil damaging your plants!

[lookntoimpruv]

I am in fox farm soil also and my runoff was at 4.5. I never added lime in the beginning. I have added a few waters or feeds at like a 7.5 ph to adjust. It went to about 5.5 but after reading everything I am worried and confused.
I am going to get lime and mix 1 teas. per gallon and mix into the top inch or two ( there is also a few inches to add to top). Is all this ok? did I screw up already? or do I not do anything?

 

[lookntoimpruv]

Blue Planet Nutes, or anyone else that ever had experience with this please let me know. I have not added the lime/soil mix to the topcoat yet because of fear of harming.
I see no signs of trouble so far, but I am worried. Is it possible that my accual soil ph is ok but my runoff is just low?
I just added great white root (microbes) treatment a few weeks ago, could that have anything to do with it? Also the first few feedings I did not allow for any runoff till they got larger. Maybe that may be impacting it. I was trying to avoid buying an accual real tester but it seems like I should...
I have been adding the last 3 or 4 water or feeds at a ph of 7.5 to try to raise it and it barely did. Should I just add the lime. Is adding water at a higher ph to balance harmfull??? Are any of these ideas feasable? Any input is greatly apprieciated.

 

[Blue Planet Nutrients]

If your plants look good, don't stress about ph. If you add lime, you can't take it back out and it will modify your ph the rest of your grow in that soil. I prefer a lower ph myself. If you start seeing signs of deficiencies, them take a closer look at the ph.

 

[YardDog35]

I agree with BPN. Goes to the old saying, "if it aint broke, don't fix it".

I noticed you mentioned getting a meter. What are you using to test PH now? A digital meter is the only way to go.

Adding PH up or down adds to your PPM as well, so if you're adding a lot you may burn your plant. How far along in flower are you? If you've just started flower, and you have room in your pot, you could top dress with more FF soil. That should bring the PH up some. Wouldn't do it if you're more than 2 weeks into flower though, might be too much N.

Again, I agree with BPN. Don't sweat it if your plant looks good. Keep an eye on her though.

Oh-what type of water are you using?

 

[Truth Seeker]

If your plants look good, don't stress about ph. If you add lime, you can't take it back out and it will modify your ph the rest of your grow in that soil. I prefer a lower ph myself. If you start seeing signs of deficiencies, them take a closer look at the ph.

I am Astonr420 and I approve this message.

 

[lookntoimpruv]

I agree with BPN. Goes to the old saying, "if it aint broke, don't fix it".

I noticed you mentioned getting a meter. What are you using to test PH now? A digital meter is the only way to go.

Adding PH up or down adds to your PPM as well, so if you're adding a lot you may burn your plant. How far along in flower are you? If you've just started flower, and you have room in your pot, you could top dress with more FF soil. That should bring the PH up some. Wouldn't do it if you're more than 2 weeks into flower though, might be too much N.

Again, I agree with BPN. Don't sweat it if your plant looks good. Keep an eye on her though.

Oh-what type of water are you using?

Holy Shit, I had no Idea ph up/down added to ppm. That in itself is a huge piece of advice.
I have well water/hard water but use the hard water micro......ALTHOUGH, for the first 4 or 5 weeks I just used water and also, once a week is just water. Ph is about just right but it is still hard. Could this be why my runoff is 5 or under?
If so what to do?
She is looking real good but a few of the tips are slightly bent. I saw somewhere that that could be from low ph.
Also, I am only testing runoff and dont have a real meter.

 

[lookntoimpruv]

OK, now one has brown spots on the fan leaves in the middle. Others seem to be fine, is it a coincidence or is more to come. What to do!!! Please help!

 

[Blue Planet Nutrients]

need pics.

 

[lookntoimpruv]

[/QUOTE] Gosh Darn it! I cant for the life of me get a pic up here. I cannot find the thread that has the instructions on posting pictures.
Anyway, the best way I can discribe it is: they first got crinkled tips , then little brown spots (def. not mites), then there are brown blotches, like when water sometimes drips out of a fan leave out of nowhere, is burning the leaf and turning it brown. Then as time passes the tips acually dry out and crumble up. But dont forget, it is still only several leaves, she still seems to be thriving, just getting held up. Although, I need to patch this up quickly, because I saw one or two new brown leaves on her sister. I am in the second week of flower.
I have done a soil ph test and it was a 5 (It was only the test that you mix a capsule and distilled water with a soil sample) , and also my runoff is a 5 so I think that is def. the prob........I thought FF OF was buffered?
I also have hard water, I dont know if that could have anything to do with it? I use hardwater micro on nute days, but they have had just plain hard water for 5 or 6 weeks prior, and still once a week.
It seems like no matter how many times I give it 7 and 7.5's it is just not leveling off.....Although I got it from a 4.5 to a 5, but not much more...... I have to add 4 or 5 ml of ph up per gal. just to get it that high on nute days. Is that to much? I dont need any on water days though, but would hate to miss a nute day, but will if advised.
I have a bag of fast acting lime plus(total cal. 36%, calcium carbonate 94%, moisture 1%) but am not sure if I should top dress or not??? It seems like it is getting slightly better from last week , when I noticed it and it was a 4.5 but I am not out of the woods.

The only other things I have done differently lately is used hydrozyme and great white root treatment, but prob. have nothing to do with it.
Any help is great, in the meanwhile I am going to try to get some pics up.

 

[Icemud]

Gosh Darn it! I cant for the life of me get a pic up here. I cannot find the thread that has the instructions on posting pictures.
Anyway, the best way I can discribe it is: they first got crinkled tips , then little brown spots (def. not mites), then there are brown blotches, like when water sometimes drips out of a fan leave out of nowhere, is burning the leaf and turning it brown. Then as time passes the tips acually dry out and crumble up. But dont forget, it is still only several leaves, she still seems to be thriving, just getting held up. Although, I need to patch this up quickly, because I saw one or two new brown leaves on her sister. I am in the second week of flower.
I have done a soil ph test and it was a 5 (It was only the test that you mix a capsule and distilled water with a soil sample) , and also my runoff is a 5 so I think that is def. the prob........I thought FF OF was buffered?
I also have hard water, I dont know if that could have anything to do with it? I use hardwater micro on nute days, but they have had just plain hard water for 5 or 6 weeks prior, and still once a week.
It seems like no matter how many times I give it 7 and 7.5's it is just not leveling off.....Although I got it from a 4.5 to a 5, but not much more...... I have to add 4 or 5 ml of ph up per gal. just to get it that high on nute days. Is that to much? I dont need any on water days though, but would hate to miss a nute day, but will if advised.
I have a bag of fast acting lime plus(total cal. 36%, calcium carbonate 94%, moisture 1%) but am not sure if I should top dress or not??? It seems like it is getting slightly better from last week , when I noticed it and it was a 4.5 but I am not out of the woods.

The only other things I have done differently lately is used hydrozyme and great white root treatment, but prob. have nothing to do with it.
Any help is great, in the meanwhile I am going to try to get some pics up.

Hey...

First off, I would recommend starting your own journal so that we can follow along with what you are doing, with photo's so we can see what the leaves are saying, would help quite a bit...

I think your first problem is using hard water... Hard water usually is full of calcium and other salts from water softening systems. This is creating a very unstable environment for your root system to grow in because once salt buildup hits an EC of around 1200, your plants will starve themselfs because they can not uptake water. I would recommend getting yourself a bunch of distilled or R/O water, ph adjust it to 7 and flush your plants until your runoff matches what you are putting into the plants... If your plants leaves are showing stress, there is a good chance that unless you correct your soil, it will only get worse... after flushing your plants out completely, get yourself a good compost tea brewing and your next feeding should be compost tea, this will help restore the microlife in your soil which will help you correct your ph issues....

Soil with a healthy microlife will help balance out the PH, but its not going to work if your soil health is not there or it is flooded out by too much water to frequently, or choked out by a massive salt build up.

I hope this helps...

 

[lookntoimpruv]

It helps greatly, I am stressing but I think I caught it in time. I think it is hard water related but I do not have any sofeners in place, could it just be from the well water alone?
I gave it just dis. Water twice now over the last week, and there dosent seem to be any new brown leaves, not to mention the plant in general looks good, but my runoff is still in the low fives.
Today is supposed to be nute day, can I give it nutes in the distilled water, which would also include the hardwater micro? Or would you recommend just water one more week? It would kill me to go off schedule, but will if advised.
One other thing, the one or two that had spots, the soil in their containers stay moister than the other. The others dry out quicker. This means they are locking out somewhat already? Can this be corrected?
Also, what is compost tea? Is flora blend even close to that? How about great white root treatment(microbes), would that work? Don't forget I am starting third week of flower.

 

[Dianimal]

Re: Adjusting your PH when growing in soil Damaging your plants!!!!

regarding "Robert's your mother's brother" That's funny, whatever it means!

It is indeed funny and I'm gonna borrow it - had to think for a moment but seems that it's just a clever way of sayin' "Bob's yer uncle"

;-)

 

[Dianimal]

I am so glad to have found this discussion. I've been having problems even getting accurate readings at my new location and just went and blew another 40 quid on a new Ph meter. I'm using Dutch Pro soil in a compost medium for the first time (previously I have grown in Coco and semi-hydro + coco in a running water environment and in soil using Ionic products) and have been getting concerned about how low the Ph drops when adding the nutes. I'd never used Ph up before, though I have used Ph down. So mainly because I hate pissing about with it, (it's the one part of the care-taking of the plants that I dread and find super-irritating plus I have actually burned my hand by failing to wash off a tiny drop of Ph down - doesn't seem to be a good thing to put in plant feed), plus this problem with getting accurate readings I started to do some more research seeing what other growers were doing that were having similiar super-low Ph readings.

And now, I am DELIGHTED to read all this stuff about how compost contains elements that automatically adjust the Ph and that it's best just not to mess with it.

I really wish I'd seen these articles before shelling out for a new Ph wand but live and learn - at least I will never spend another penny on these shitty chemicals that I'd really rather not use anyway.

I'm now thinking back on a couple of previous grows that were NOT hydro and in which I had disappointing results and am wondering if it was all this faffing about with the Ph.

Also, because my Ph pen wasn't working right, I had thought the water was coming out of the tap at 6.3 so I wasn't adjusting it for pure water feeds, which I mainly do for the first few weeks of blooming, so the happy outcome is that I wasn't adding a bunch of that ph - up/down crap anyway and my plants look GOOOD.

Anyway, I'm entering week 5 of bloom, and will just leave the water alone after adding my nutes to the right EC.

Will post pics of the final result and then, if it turns out as I expect, I will start spreading the gospel that soil-based medium does NOT need any ph adjustment.

 

[invi]

Does this mean that if one uses RO water, quality soil (with 6-6.5 pH) and proper nutes (like canna terra line) then pH does not need to be adjusted further?

I was hoping pH is irrelevant when my water is at 0.04 EC, and that manufaturers dont require me to add another component never listed on any fert schedule.

If it still needs to be adjusted upwards, then are there any soil friendly methods to do that? I'm afraid to use chemicals that work in hydro - i haven't the slightest idea what those will do to all the living organisms in my pot. They are the main reason i grow in soil ater all (and also the fear of pump failure )

 

[jz1990]

Ok, lets clear something up here quickly... If you are growing ORGANICALLY, then you do not have to PH your solutions/feedings. If you are growing with Chems/synthetics then you have to PH your solutions/feedings unless they are PH buffered....

FINALLY an answer simple and too the point. I haven't pH'd with the first feeding of my General Organics, honestly it all looks better than my last run, which I used FF series on AND pH'd.

 

[age2k2]

This is a great thread a lot of information for first timers.

 

[greenleaves5]

done 3 grows in hydro using advanced nutrients (coco) bloke in shop said try bat special soil much beta smoke now am shitin myself again all new 2 me don't know were 2 start liking all of these posts gona have 2 read them all again

 

[bobswizzle420]

little brown spots = iron toxicity..probably from using the well water..I say this because I just saw the same exact thing about a week ago on a grower using well water that is VERY high in iron..A ppm pen said around 400 but has a yellowish-iron look to it..we watered an OG13 clone and it had little circular brown spots on the fan leaves that I hadn't seen before, so I did some research and discovered it was iron toxicity...that is all

 

[intrepidsoul]

I agree with the advice here saying, do NOT PH adjust your organic feedings....HOWEVER.... to add to this...you should monitor them and bubble them with air until the PH range comes up to a desirable level. (around 6.5)

For example...when I mix up my earthjuice/nutrient/additive feedings the PH right after mixing usually is right around the 4.0PH mark which If I just directly added this to my organic soil...I would #1 burn the shiz out of my roots, and #2 destroy many of the microlife that also depend's on a somewhat stable PH range. So to correct this and raise the PH.... I bubble my mixes for 24-36 hours depending on how fast the mix PH raises upwards.

I usually feel it is safe to feed >5.9PH but have tried feeding directly at 4PH as well as waiting until the mix reaches the goal of 6.5PH. Feeding at a 4PH seems to slow down growth for a day or 2 while feeding at the 6.5PH range seems to induce no "lag" period. I don't know how many others have experienced this, but so far this seems to have an effect.

I also have learned that adding a pure water feeding every 3rd to 4th week also helps in flushing the salts that build up(organics build up salts too) as well as help keep a monitor on the run-off and soil PH...Not talking about a full flush, just watering with pure water with some run off

Hi, have been trying to figure this one out for a long time too...
in veg I have been using soil with a ph 5.5-6.0 or so it says on the bag.. then adding nutrients, my water has a ph of 7.0 so after I put in (terra grow) I use ph down to get my feed mix to 6.2 which I then give to the plants... I think things are ok from that point... I think lol
In flowering then for the 1st week/2 weeks I leave the solution at 6.2 to still give nitrogen, then in the 2ed week on I have been lowering the nutrients solution (terra bloom) to a ph of 5.8 and have stuck to that to the end.. but I must admit that my buds are very wispy and not developing onto the big whoppers that I thought they would.. I also thought that this nutrient lock out might occur and maybe that's why I am not getting the results that I should...please help anyone?
I have read all the post above but with mommas now starting to show their 1st few flowers I am starting to get concerned that I may just need a strain change or maybe just go back to school for botany 101...
I too think that when I was not paying any attention to my ph and was just putting in the nutrients straight into the water and onto the plants without any adjustment I was doing just fine!
Any help at all here folks would really be appreciated... I mean I know that there is probably different stages of anythings development.. like when we are kids we need different things to when we are old... same has to be true of this stuff to... but whats needed and when?
Folk have said to me in the past that your plants will tell you what they need... all you got to do is listen... well I'm all ears!!! what a nightmare....

 

[girlsgrow2]

This thread is awesome, tons of great info. I've got kind of a weird thing going on, wondering if any of you might be able to help shed some light on it?

I have never really tested the PH of my water or soil, but I wanted to get a bit more good stuff into my soil mix, so I bought a Ph tester. When I first tested the water coming out of my well, it was a little bit high (depending on who you ask), but the nutrients lowered it right down to where it needed to be, so I didn't mess with trying to raise or lower it. The ppms are low, totally normal. I was worried I'd have hard water, but it doesn't seem to be the case.

However, I started making some different soil mixes so I could test the ph and make sure that I wasn't gonna kill my babies when I put them into it and I'm running into some weirdness. I'm wondering if my ph monitor could be broken? I've only used it about 4 times, could it need to be calibrated already? If so, I think that sucks...is that normal?

My well water is ph'ing at 7.4 now, which is a full point higher than it was before. And I tested some distilled water (which should be neutral, 7.0 from what research I've done) and it's coming up at like 5.5 or so. So the water is testing higher than it used to and the distilled water is testing lower than it should. Wth? hah that seems all kinds of broken

I started out with a mix that was 2 parts moss, 2 parts potting mix, 3 parts perlite and 1 part compost. The run off came out at 5.5, which would have meant that the ph of the soil is 3.6. SUPER low. So I threw one more part compost into it to see what would happen and the run off came out at 6.5, which would put the soil at 5.6. Those calculations are correct, right? 5.6=x+7.4/2 which calculates to 3.6. Can't believe I actually used algebra!! Crazy.

If not, I need to add something more until I get the ph of the soil up a little bit still by adding or subtracting something, right? Adding lime or ? Or should I raise the ph of the water to start with? What's weird is that when I ADDED more compost, the ph of the run off went up a full point. So maybe I should just add more compost?

Sorry if I wasn't clear enough, hopefully I explained that properly. I'm just worried about burning my plants when I move them to 1 gallon pots for vegging with this new soil mix. I used to just use a potting soil mix and perlite mixed together, that's it. I'm adding the moss and compost to the deal to see if my babies can be even better than they are now (which is pretty darn good, finally!)

Fyi, this is my first post on this forum...I've been growing for years with partners and I'm in week 2 of flower for the first crop I've done 100% on my own. I just added a separate veg room so I'm doing perpetual grow now and I'm just trying to refine and perfect things. I've added co2, reflective material on the walls, am watching the temp of my room a lot closer and just generally trying to do things the "right" way so I don't experience fluctuations in yield like I have before when growing with partners who didn't pay close attention.

It wasn't unusual for us to have a crop that yielded 4 oz. per plant and then the next crop to only be .5 oz. I don't want that to happen ever again.

Thanks for the help and I look forward to learning more here