Aero cloner blues

[Weaselcracker]

Ok I'm going to break down and ask for you good people's help on this one. I always like to put that off till the last minute because I know some of these subjects including this one have been done to death, and if I only read through 1,000 more threads I might know the answers. (Or 1,000 answers lol...)
I built a 5 gallon bucket aero cloner six weeks ago and have been tossing throwaway cuttings in there to make sure it's working out for me when the time comes to clone the cuttings I actually really need. So far it isn't.
In the past I always cloned in rockwool with 90-100% results but this has become impossible because I have to be away for work 5 days at a time and can't leave the rockwool that long, without overwatering anyway. Unless I make some mini micro auto watering system for it- but really I think the aero method shouldn't be rocket science so I'm forging ahead with it. Trying to anyway.
Zero percent success with the aero cloner. The clones sit and sit looking fine from above for weeks, while the stems gradually rot.
I'm guessing it's a combo of things. Temps a bit too high-the thermometer recorded a max of 80 degrees this last week. Low of 70. I have the pump on 5 min, off 10, or something like that. The temps in bucket run a couple degrees higher than the thermometer I mentioned.
The tiniest sliver of a light leak on edges of one or two of the holes which the net pots with collars and clones sit in.

I've been changing the water every week.
Last week I threw some cuttings in there that I actually do care about and would like to save, if possible. They are currently going down the same road to total annihilation by pythium. Turning brown, with a hint of slime.

I'm going to clean the cloner and run it overnight with bleach water (again) or peroxide if I can get it (?), rinse like crazy (again), deal with the teeny light leaks and in future aim to run the temps closer to 70.
I'm brewing tea with the limited ingredients I have atm- compost from garden,ZHO and mollases. Subculture M&B on the way hopefully though I'm not sure yet if that would be appropriate for cloner.
I've relocated the clones to rockwool for now.

Do you guys think that taking these steps will make things work?
What can I do if anything to save the clones with root rot already started?
Sorry about the long winded question and thanks in advance friends.

 

[MrBelvedere]

for cloning you do not need any nutrients. That MAY be the problem. Does your aero cloner have a humidity dome?

I would go with rockwool, way easier, and use your pump to make a simple ebb and flow clone tray with rockwool cubes and humidity dome. Dies that help?

 

[Weaselcracker]

for cloning you do not need any nutrients. That MAY be the problem. Does your aero cloner have a humidity dome?

I would go with rockwool, way easier, and use your pump to make a simple ebb and flow clone tray with rockwool cubes and humidity dome. Dies that help?

Thanks for the reply Mr B I appreciate it. I'm not using any nutrients in the cloner. I am brewing ( hopefully some version of ) beneficial tea which uses compost and therefore has some nutrients yes, but is very weak and intended to combat the root rot. In any case- I haven't used it yet- it needs a bit more time to brew.
My understanding is that a humidity dome isn't necessary on an aeroponic cloner (???). The cuttings have been looking great as far as the foliage goes.
From my past experience with rockwool cloning I feel like an ebb and flow would soak the rockwool and overwater it. But I haven't tried that or done any research into it yet. Maybe if it was done right, so that the rockwool just got very little water through wicking action. I was thinking of some sort of very limited drip system or else I might make a bubble cloner next to try that though I'm guessing I'd have the exact same problem as now unless I change something. I really think the areoponic thing shouldn't be this difficult and I'm obviously doing something wrong. My temps are a bit high I know and I'm going to bring them down-but I've rooted in rockwool at higher temps than this quite easily so.... ??????????

 

[Alienpus]

If you can't get this sorted out in time, capillary mats for your cubes will give you five days easy.

 

[Weaselcracker]

Thanks AP. I haven't even heard of those I'll check it out.

..... Ok now I have. That looks like it would work! Thanks. I am not going to give up on my aeroponic system yet though so still fishing for answers.

 

[Alienpus]

Thanks AP. I haven't even heard of those I'll check it out.

..... Ok now I have. That looks like it would work! Thanks. I am not going to give up on my aeroponic system yet though so still fishing for answers.

Back when I ran aero it was 1 min on and 5 off and kept a bubble stone in there. It looks like it may be starting in your foam pellets, maybe what you are using absorbs too much water or stays too soggy or they are not well disinfected?

 

[Weaselcracker]

The first failed run was with the neoprene collars was with them right out of the bag. Next run was with new ones but they were given the bleach treatment. I don't think they hold any water. The brown was pretty much below the collars, on the stem ends, though right at the bottom of collar where the stem exited there would be a bit extra brown/slime. The picture doesn't show that well but the bottom of the collar was just above the little blob of slime mid stem.
I figured the water would be plenty aerated from the misters going and I know people often run the pump 24/7 with no problem. I just wanted to make sure the pump wasn't heating things up too much. But I'll clean out and sterilize the system, toss in a bubbler, change the timer, lower the temps and make a new bucket lid with no light leaks and see if that fixes things (!)

 

[MrBelvedere]

Great, keep us updated! Thx

 

[Weaselcracker]

I will. And obviously I welcome any help if anyone else out there has input. Thank you!

 

[Weaselcracker]

Ok a bunch more reading and this is what I am thinking now about this root rot. I think it is has been lurking in my setup for some time now. Now that I think back on it I was having a lot of trouble cloning before I built this aero cloner but put it off as me having been overwatering while trying to get the rockwool cubes wet enough to last through the work week with new job schedule. I also thought maybe my temperatures were too high in there. It didn't really compute but I just kept moving onwards trying to deal with it and decided to build the aero cloner. But the reality is that I never had any trouble cloning in the past at all, even when being totally careless how I did things. I think this pythium has moved in and is here to stay till I can find a way to get it out. I suspect that lowering the temperatures and dealing with the light leaks and the aeration won't be enough to get rid of it though I'll try that for sure. Reading a bunch more journals including the Capn's gives me the feeling that beneficial bacteria is the only thing that might save the day so I'm working on that. Will update.

 

[cannilingus]

hi. i have cloned using different ways. i have a hardly used daisy cloner. it was not that great. water prep/ ph about 6. in a gallon jug, i put a few drops of superthrive. (the owner passed away, and when he did, they diluted the stuff). also, one capfull of kangaroots. this has the mycortizae buggies. lol. two ways i clone. both work well. both, are used with a seedling heat mat. i use one of those black trays. i keep 3/4" of water in this. i pre-wet, some promix (has no ferts in it. ferts hurt clones, on any level but very light). i have little 3" pots. i poke a center hole in the dirt. dip my cutting in vita-gro, place in the dirt, tamp gently. i spray my fresh clones with anti wilt, also by the same company who makes the vita gro. so now, i have all my clones in the pots, in the tray, sitting in the water. i then put the clear top, on the tray, so its a humid enviro. only a cfl for light. and, for the first couple of days, INDIRECT light. they lil girls cannot take the light. they have no roots, to keep themselves cool. lol. this is what i learned. in a few days, move the light closer, each day. they are in thier own lil pots, so, no need to transplant them, till they are all perked up. you will notice, that one day, the plants are reaching up! this means they will make it. toss slow, or stunted ones. and, after a week, open the little vents on the hood, all the way. sometimes, i have gotten stem rot. this is because i did not open the vents. also, i sterilize my little pots, and the tray, with some water and bleach. this will kill any bacteria, or mold, that may be present. rinse well. lol. the heat mat, really make the diff for me. sitting in the water, well, they love that. after they have "woke up" and perked up, now you can add some ferts to your water. not much. 1/4 streanth, tops. i now, have about a 95% surviveal. would be 100. but i cull. and, some streins of weed, are hard to clone! herojuana is one thats tuff. my new ice, and ww, skunks, and god, are easy. but i have had my share of buggers. to the point, where i quit the strein. good luck. this works terrific for me.

 

[Weaselcracker]

Thanks for taking the time to answer this Cannalingus I appreciate it. I was already thinking to maybe try them straight in promix next. I will use sterilized everything and water from elsewhere, though one thing I learned reading up on pythium is that it's systemic in plants- so if the mother of the clones has it- it's in the cuttings. Also- I assume it's just in the air. The word pythium is thrown around as a sort of blanket term for a few different forms of bacterial growth that cause rot. This current run I have my temp down to 72 and a bubbler in there. No light leaks. I sterilized everything with bleach water, rinsed, used boiled water treated with peroxide. Coming up on two weeks and no roots as of a couple days ago but I'm away again atm so will check again soon. Next tricks - trying the promix, and hoping that the Subculture will help. Otherwise I'm ordering more ingredients for the tea, and/or different commercial bennie concoctions to try. If that doesn't do it, what next? I don't know!
Ps- just so I'm clear on your explanation- you put the little pots full of soil with the cuttings- into a tray with 3/4" or so of water- and keep the water level like that , and that keeps your soil at the right moisture for the duration? Doesn't soak it too much? I won't be able to test this for a couple days.
Rereading it- it looks like yes that's what you said. Thanks again

 

[Weaselcracker]

Ok a little interim update to this thread which I'll see through to the end because I feel responsible for threads I've started. 'The end' means a happy ending with my aerocloner working well, of course.
But... We ain't there yet. I did finally get the Subculture M and B. I dug it into my promix and all transplants and new plantings have been into this mix, and I have to say my plants are looking healthier and happier than ever before. I also added sub m to my weekly cloner water changes, at the reccomended rate of 5ml per ten gallons of water. I'm not so sure it can really work it's magic in these circumstances since I think the bennies need somewhere to live and the aero cloner just doesn't give them that. I would probably be better off brewing up a tea with the subculture and adding that for a massive dose of bennies to the system. Nevertheless, I did finally get some roots on those clones that were in there from my last update. They were about a month old by then, and I could see that the root rot was present though not as bad as before. The roots looked fairly pitiful and didnt grow very quickly

This looked promising but not good enough and at this point I was getting pretty desperate to have some actual clones of plants I wanted to stick into 12/12 so decided on a whim to try cloning a new (to me) way. I took some cuttings and used rockwool, but this time instead of trying to baby them along and keep them watered to perfection, I tried something else. I soaked the cubes in water with a bit of subculture mixed in, jammed in the cuttings, and put the cubes in to a container of damp coco. Then I put the pot full of coco and cuttings under a cfl at 75 degrees (no dome) and left them. A week later there were roots busting out everywhere. What a lovely sight after all this time! I just pulled this idea out of thin air on the spur of the moment but it worked out great, so I'm very happy with this new method and believe it will absolutely solve my dilemma of not being able to be around to water the rockwool correctly. Coco is such lovely stuff to grow roots in. I could probably just skip using the rockwool at all for that matter

I tossed out the cuttings in the aerocloner and I'm going to clean it out and try again soon with it. I refuse to give up...
I think the bennies are at work in my plants and the root rot is hopefully on it's way out, and when I try the aerocloner out again in a week or two I'll have good things to report.

 

[ZARBU]

I tossed out the cuttings in the aerocloner and I'm going to clean it out and try again soon with it. I refuse to give up...
I think the bennies are at work in my plants and the root rot is hopefully on it's way out, and when I try the aerocloner out again in a week or two I'll have good things to report.

Hi weaselcracker

Try sphagnum moss, it will suit your situation.

Fill a propagation tray with sphagnum moss, water once till wet, get a 10 litre bucket of water and put 5 ml of un scented bleach in it, stir , after making clones dip only the stem part in the bleach water, dont get any on the leaves or your fingers, then into straight into Clonex Gel, get the gel all the way up the stem , then pack sphagnum moss around the clones, you can pack up to 40 clones together in a tray.

Put tray on a heat pad, mist leaves once only with dilute kelp and a drop of super thrive.

Never water tray again , never mist again, don't use a clone dome.

you will get 100 % strike rate. remove and transplant in around 16 days and mist with kelp on transplant.

Let me know how you go.

(Misting and clone domes slow root development)

If clones ever wilt due to your environment, you can leave them in the dark in a cool place for the first 24 hours, this will replace the need for a dome.

used very low light levels on a 24 hour cycle or less if suits.

Link - Cloning! - Photos! - Home made

In this thread, in a bubbler bucket i have roots on day 6, scroll down to see photos that go with my first posts, as the photos were removed by admin in the first posts due to me using a image hosting service.

Cheers

Kiwiiwik

 

[VladimirPutin]

Trying to make every weed related operation as sophisticated as the star trek enterprise seems to lead to problems sooner than later.

I'd say use the KIS method and put the cloner away
Just my two rubles.
I used cups of normal water and 3 weeks later they are all still alive and I planted them and now roots have started forming.
no pumps or timers.

They eat their leaves for food until the roots set

Good luck Comrade your clone roots look a little oxygen deprived

V

 

[Weaselcracker]

Damn, another unfinished thread come back to haunt me . I never went back to the aero cloner. The only reason I would do that, would probably be to finish this thread. In fact, I dismantled some of it just today for parts to make some sort of autowatering system to water my solo cup plants.
I accidently discovered a much easier way- which is putting the rockwool cubes, with cuttings, in a tub of moist coco. It's maintenance free- no watering, or at least not much, and the cuttings and I can leave each other alone all week without trouble. I've been doing that for the last ten months or so since that last post I made on this thread.
I never really figured out what the problem was last year, or what happened to turn it around. That's why I never finished the thread- because I never had an intelligent conclusion.
I tried a lot of different cloning methods during that time last year, the aerocloner was just one of many, and I couldn't get anything to root. My trusted rockwool method, which had served me well for years, completely stopped working- that's why I was trying new stuff.
Once I started using coco as a wicking system I started getting roots again- but by that time I'd cleaned everything to perfection, tweaked the temps, started new mothers, and introduced bennie teas, so who knows wtf was going on.
Vlad I didn't have any luck with the clones in water thing when I tried it. I'll give it a try again though. The sphagnum moss idea sounds very interesting too. There's lots of that moss growing around here. Thanks for the ideas both of you and I'll run both those methods as experiments next time I get a free space in my experiment making schedule. Solo cup competition improvisation is keeping me hopping at the moment.

 

[ZARBU]

Damn, another unfinished thread come back to haunt me . I never went back to the aero cloner. The only reason I would do that, would probably be to finish this thread. In fact, I dismantled some of it just today for parts to make some sort of autowatering system to water my solo cup plants.
I accidently discovered a much easier way- which is putting the rockwool cubes, with cuttings, in a tub of moist coco. It's maintenance free- no watering, or at least not much, and the cuttings and I can leave each other alone all week without trouble. I've been doing that for the last ten months or so since that last post I made on this thread.
I never really figured out what the problem was last year, or what happened to turn it around. That's why I never finished the thread- because I never had an intelligent conclusion.
I tried a lot of different cloning methods during that time last year, the aerocloner was just one of many, and I couldn't get anything to root. My trusted rockwool method, which had served me well for years, completely stopped working- that's why I was trying new stuff.
Once I started using coco as a wicking system I started getting roots again- but by that time I'd cleaned everything to perfection, tweaked the temps, started new mothers, and introduced bennie teas, so who knows wtf was going on.
Vlad I didn't have any luck with the clones in water thing when I tried it. I'll give it a try again though. The sphagnum moss idea sounds very interesting too. There's lots of that moss growing around here. Thanks for the ideas both of you and I'll run both those methods as experiments next time I get a free space in my experiment making schedule. Solo cup competition improvisation is keeping me hopping at the moment.

I think you will find the sphagnum moss method for cloning very good.

All the best

Kiwiiwik

 

[VladimirPutin]

The clones can get lazy if they think that the cup of water they sit in is "just dandy" and no need to root out...
Tricky indeed...
That's why so many people use rooting hormone. It's a wonderful crutch and I want some to try.

V

 

[ZARBU]

The clones can get lazy if they think that the cup of water they sit in is "just dandy" and no need to root out...
Tricky indeed...
That's why so many people use rooting hormone. It's a wonderful crutch and I want some to try.

V

I see many people using clear cups, or glass, light really slows rooting down, as does misting, if you mist every day clones will often die before they root. Water misting also draws out nutrients from the leaf, and leads to yellowing, the opposite of foliar feeding.
I never mist more than once and domes slow things down a lot too.

kiwiiwik