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Airavata's Continuous 2-Tent Grow - Soil - 600W HPS

airavata

New Member
Hey, everybody. Recently found the site (which is badass, btw) and decided to contribute. I'm already 2.5 weeks into flower so I'm going to outline everything leading up to today. I've got maybe 3 grows under my belt over the course of 11 years, so I'm practically a noob. I've grown some tasty buds but I've never quite gotten everything right. I made up my mind that this time I was going to do everything right and invested about $1k. My last grow was hydro about 4 years ago. That one failed miserably so now I'm back to dirt...for now. Unfortunately, I'm still having nute issues.

The setup:



1 x "Secret Jardin - DR80" - Veg. tent - 31.5"x31.5"x63"
-1 x 125w cfl w/hydrofarm reflector
-1 x 4" 80cfm inline fan, exhausting @ top
-1 x 8" clip-on circulation fan

Veg. clones -
Purchased and transplanted 6 days ago







-Lemon Skunk in 8" clay pot



-Lemon skunk in 8.5" plastic pot



-Hi Planez in 8.5" plastic pot



-Hi Planez in 10" clay pot (close-up of leaf curl)



-NYC Diesel in 9.5" clay pot

1 x "Secret Jardin - DR120 - Flowering tent - 47.25" x 47.25" x 78.75"





-1 x 600w hps
-1 x Air-cooled Hydrofarm reflector



-1 x Ecoplus inline fan - 160cfm



-1 x Air2 humidistat/thermostat
-1 x dual intake window fan (pictured above)
Using as continuous intake & circulation
-1 x 4" inline fan - 80 cfm
Run continuously as exhaust

Veg. Progress:

So the vegging plants are doing great so far. They'd been in their little 3" pots for a while by the looks of them, but they perked right up upon being transplanted. They have all more than doubled their size over the course of 5 days. They are all 6-7" tall (I buried their stems b/c they were kinda leggy). The "Hi Planez" strain (whatever that is[I can't find info on it anywhere]) wasn't as root-bound as the rest and suffered a little transplant shock. The leaves were curled up badly, indicating that it was trying to retain moisture, even though it was well watered and the temp. was low. I raised the cfl to about 9" above the canopy and the curling has all but disappeared.

Flower progress:

The plants that are now in bloom have issues.

As you can see from the pictures, I probably could have fit a lot more plants in this tent, but that would have been cost-prohibitive and, as this is my 1st grow in this tent (and my 1st grow in the last few years for that matter), I decided to be conservative. Next cycle will be about the same but I think I'll choose a clone mother from one of the plants I have vegging now and pack that tent on the 3rd cycle.

Forgot to mention, I'm using miracle grow potting soil. Nutrient proportions looked acceptable and the bag claimed to feed plants for up to 6 months. Well they grew great up until I moved them to the flowering tent at week 5, when the leaves started yellowing a little. No real cause for alarm yet, though. It was also at this time that my slightly annoying gnat problem (the gnats snuck in with the dirt) blew the hell up. Looking back, having familiarized myself more with Cervantes' MMGB, I realize that what I was looking at was probably Manganese deficiency. Magnesium deficiency looked like a possibility at a glance but I added plenty of lime to my potting mix, so I don't think that was the problem. At the time, though, I thought it might have been toxic shock from being hosed down with neem oil on two consecutive days. I didn't want to mess with more than one variable at a time. So a few days went by and these symptoms kept getting worse so I decided I was looking at a nutrient deficiency. I used a .15-.85-.55 nutrient solution (Eleanor's VF-11) at 7 times the recommended daily rate, thinking I'd do the same in a week. I decided that I wasn't seeing enough improvement after about 4 or 5 days and repeated the same procedure. Up until that point, my blackberry (my favorite)had only shown minimal symptoms but the day after the 2nd application of fertilizer, there was a very noticible difference (this morning). I consulted Jorge Cervantes' MMGB again and decided it looked like Potassium toxicity. So I flushed the living crap out of the plants and decided to use a different fertilizer. The Eleanor's didn't list any micronutrients. I went with a Lilly Miller's "Morcrop", which is 5-10-10 and has a bunch of micronutrients too. I wanted to add a really dilute solution but the directions were very vague so I completely guessed at what constituted a dilute solution. They recommend 2 tablespoons per plant every 6 weeks, applied to the soil above the roots so I mixed one tablespoon into about 2 gallons of water, which I used to water all four plants. Now all I can do is pray that this solution was dilute enough. Tomorrow I'll know more.

I have my theories, but I obviously haven't got this whole nute thing ironed out yet so any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Some questions I still have: Was it a nutrient deficiency that caused all this in the first place, like I think? Can I rule out the possibility that flowering the plants somehow locked up the nutrients? Any specific nutrient/dillution rates anybody?

Here are the pics I took of the girls after I flushed and re-fertilized:

Big Bud-









Blackberry











Kush #1

https://www.420magazine.com/gallery/data/504/CIMG21381.JPG[/IMG
[IMG]https://www.420magazine.com/gallery/data/504/CIMG21402.JPG


Kush #2





The Kush plants are leggy b/c I mistook powdery mildew for mold and freaked out and stuck them in the window for a week. For some reason, though, Kush #2 hasn't really shown symptoms of nutrient deficiency/toxicity. I feel like the buds on all 4 plants should be bigger at 2.5 weeks though.

Really hoping I can still pull a few oz out of this grow. Either way, within another cycle or two, I should be pulling off respectable yeilds and, hopefully, this will help other people keep from making the same mistakes as me.
 

airavata

New Member
Toxicity appears to have progressed a little overnight. Leaves were a little less green and some more necrotic spots popped up. 2/3 of the big bud plant are yellow and/or spotted. Leaves are now yellow and spotted about 1/3 of the way up both Blackberry and Kush #1. Kush #2 looked a little less green but still looks OK. The rate that these symptoms were progressing slowed way down from the night before last to last night. The bud growth seems to have picked back up somewhat. I decided to flush them all thoroughly, again, this morning then reapply the same fertilizer at 1/4 the previous rate. I think this will put them back on track.

I'm going to aim for weekly updates (with pictures) on this thing. My goal before this whole mess was 9-10 oz. Hopefully I'll still come close to this.
 

airavata

New Member
Well the plants are still looking kinda bad. The kush that, so far, hadn't been any worse for the wear has a couple yellow leaves now. The others' are getting crispier/yellower. Not by a bunch, but it is still going downhill. The buds grew a negligible amount. I'm thinking they're not getting nutes at this point because I the Lilly Miller stuff that I made a solution out of is a TRF. I should have known that wasn't going to work well. The label recommends 1 Tbsp/plant sprinkled onto the dirt at the base of the plant so I sprinkled a teaspoon. I'm thinking about giving them a dilute mix of that Eleanor's VF-11 today too, to make sure they have all the macronutrients they need available now. This sucks. I'll be sleeping a lot better once my growth picks back up and the leaves stop dying.

After checking out SkooterClowns' current grow, I decided I'm going to switch to hydro. Before I do that, though, I'm gonna make this grow medium my bitch. Watch out, dirt, you heard right. I'm thinking that the week before I move my cycle 2 plants to the flowering tent, I'm going to repot and use that Morcrop preemptively. The only dirt I have though, is that MG potting soil. So I'll probably have to pick something else up.

I'm also wondering about my water. Getting RO water from the store is a giant hassle so, this time around, I've just been using charcoal-filtered water. Wonder how big a difference that makes. Eventually I'll be investing in a tds meter and some testing supplies, but not this go-around. I also flushed with straight tap water as it was coming out the bath faucet. Definitely not ideal. :/
 

Tmac12

New Member
Hi Airavata, wanted to let you know your link to your grow is not working.

Also you said the Gnat word? How did you get rid of them?? Also the larva of the gnats feeds on the roots, so are you sure the problem with your leaves is not root damage?? Sorry but I am very paranoid about gnats, considering I have had them for awhile now... I guess I have a reason. So did you get rid of them? Also when you said you put your plants in the window what did you mean? Outside? Could you have gotten the gnats them?
Plants are still looking good!!
 

airavata

New Member
Hi Airavata, wanted to let you know your link to your grow is not working.

Also you said the Gnat word? How did you get rid of them?? Also the larva of the gnats feeds on the roots, so are you sure the problem with your leaves is not root damage?? Sorry but I am very paranoid about gnats, considering I have had them for awhile now... I guess I have a reason. So did you get rid of them? Also when you said you put your plants in the window what did you mean? Outside? Could you have gotten the gnats them?
Plants are still looking good!!
Hey, Tmac, thanks for the heads-up. I had no idea, I'll try to figure out how to fix that.

The gnats have been an ongoing problem. I've been using a solution of neem oil and water. They seemed to be gone after the first two applications. There were one or two more applications that slowed them down some, after they came back, but didn't get rid of them totally. I'm sure the gnats aren't helping the situation but there's definitely something else going on too, even if only because of my tinkering. Anyway, the gnats are back in force but I'll be hitting them with predatory nematodes first thing in the morning. I have a good feeling about the nematodes. Hopefully I haven't already done too much damage. As far as the window....no, I didn't move them outdoors, just up to my window (out of the grow room). The gnats actually disappeared from them for about 2 weeks after that because of the temp. drop, I'm guessing. That would explain why those two seem to look healthier even though they're not as bushy. What are you doing about your gnat problem?

Anyway, thanks for the kind words. They're still getting worse though. I'd have posted pics but my son broke the camera. I'll probably update tomorrow. So..... I'll be praying for a miracle but it's looking like I might have to chalk this grow up to a hard lesson in gnats and nutes.

:peace2:
 

airavata

New Member
Oh yeah. I didn't do the 2nd application of fert. because about 20 minutes after I sprinkled more morcrop, a good amount of my yellow leaves went completely limp. I'm not completely sure what to make of this. Skooterclowns' White Castle sliders leaves all look like this (without the yellowing or spots) and their stuff is growing like crazy. We'll see what happens. I'm kind of flying by the seat of my pants at this point though.
 

airavata

New Member
you never mentioned what kind of water you use and the ph.

what is the ph of the water you give to the plants?
Hey, Joe. Thanks for your input. Right now I'm just using my tap run through a charcoal filter. It's about 6.8-6.5. I used straight tap water to flush them on two separate occasions. Didn't really want to but RO or filtered would have been way too inconvenient. I also add lime to my soil as per Jorge Cervantes' recommentation. Keeps the PH right around 6.8 all grow.
 

airavata

New Member
Well my buds are chugging right along. My leaves are still dropping but the more I think about it, the more the gnat thing seems to be the problem. I've never had problems like this in dirt before, even with similar or even higher levels of feritlizer. Root damage is starting to make a lot of sense. So I applied predatory nematodes to all my plants, first thing in the morning, emptied my tents, and scrubbed 'em all down with 15% bleach solution. By the time I put them all back, the plants were already looking happier and the gnats seemed proturbed. Feeling good about the nematodes.

I also noticed some powdery mildew on some leaves so I hit the veg. plants with neem oil and wiped them down. Then I opened both tents up and put an oscillating fan on both gardens. I had cut my vent fan off for a few days because the Hi Planez looked a little stressed. Their leaves are actually still cupped/curled up around the edges but they're growing very well so I'm gonna start exhausting again. I'm sure they'll get used to the low humidity. I deff. need more circulation fans in both tents though.

I'll try to get some pics up later tonight.
:peace2:
 

Planter

New Member
sounding good man. do u think u might be over watering ur babies that is why gnats are more drawn to ur tents ?? pics would be great :) good luck bud.
what day flower r u on now?
 

Tmac12

New Member
This is a bad time of year for bugs, people bring in plants from the outside so they dont die in the cold. That fern you had on your porch or some other plant. Doesnt take but one plant to come in and infect everything in the house growing. Bringing them in on your clothes. During the summer we had hoppers in the closet. I'm sure I will be bitching about them again next summer! :tokin:
 

airavata

New Member
Well, I can't get the camera I borrowed from my sister to connect to my computer so I give up for now. The girls are in day 22 of flower and they just started getting frosty today.

I've gone to both extremes with watering, Staffy, and it doesn't seem to affect the gnats so I just give 'em what makes 'em look happy. Thanks for the well wishes. I'll need a little luck on this grow.

Hey, Tmac. Those are all good points but I sterilize my room and dip new plants in neem oil before they come in. It's the miracle grow dirt. I've had good results with it before so I was surprised at all the issues I'm having now. I will never use the stuff again. And I'm going to apply nematodes EVERY time I repot from now on.

Thanks for the support guys, I appreciate it.
 

airavata

New Member
Yeah, it's not a whole lot yet but, considering that it all just came overnight, I'm a little impressed. AND I got that camera to work. The resolution of the pics sucks but it's the best I can do at the moment. Here they are at day 22 of flower:

Blackberry






Big Bud (below)






Kush1(below)






Kush2(below)






Don't know how well the trichomes will show up on here but they are coming in. :D
 

PitViper

Plant of the Month: Apr 2009 - Member of the Month: Aug 2009
I have yellowed out with neem before also the bottom leaves get all the drips lol.I dont like your soil MG is not the way.I have learned that you do one thing at a time atleast a week apart because its easier to pick up what causes your trouble.
 

airavata

New Member
Thanks for the pointers, PV. I really appreciate how helpful everyone here is. I agree with you 100% about the miracle grow. The plants I have in veg. now are going to be my last grow with miracle grow and probably soil. After that I think I'm going to go to a soiless medium (probably either hempy buckets or a mix of perlite and peat) and use either Osmocote or GH nutes. When I can afford to I'm going to upgrade to hydro.
 

airavata

New Member
I've concluded that my problem is definitely root damage from gnat larvae. I have some other kind of bug that looks like a little beetle or a big, 6-legged mite. I don't know if they're harmful or beneficial but, since they haven't done anything to reduce the gnat population, I'm guessing they eat roots too. Their populations have blown up. They're all over the place. At this point, it's in the hands of God and the nematodes (and they don't have hands lol). I'm done spending 2 hours a day smashing bugs.

My buds are still growing but the leaves are still yellowing. By the time I update my thread, my room will probably look like a Charlie Brown Christmas tree farm. Some of these plants are going to finish up early, due to them simply dying and curing where they stand. Even if the nematodes work wonders, I don't think I'm going to see any root regeneration this late in the game. My soil is really compact now, too, which isn't helping anything.

They might all last four more weeks if I'm lucky. At this point, I'll be happy with 4 oz. but, realistically, I'm probably looking at about 2.5 oz. when everything's said and done. What a sad grow. I really tried to isolate the variables on this one so I expected good things. Who'd have thought you could get such a ridiculous bug infestation off of indoor potting soil? I've grown a lot of stuff, marijuana and otherwise, with great results using the same formula of heavily ammended, generic potting soil. Never again! I'm pulling that card from the deck.

The good news is that I think I've finally exhausted the list of things that can possibly go wrong over the course of a grow. I wishi I didn't have to learn everything the hard way, but I've learned my lessons well and I see big piles of buds in my not-so-distant future.
 

Tmac12

New Member
Sorry to hear Airavata about the root damage. I am still battling my own gnats. The DE seems to kill alot but had to remove it so the soil could get some air. I covered the top of the pot with some nylon. Hopefully any that hatch out will not be able to fly off and I can go up every so often and kill them.

Your pots are pretty smallish, why dont you try slipping the bottom in some panty hose and bring them up over the top. Tie them around the stem.
 
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