AKGramma's ATF-AFG Offspring Grow

[AKgramma]

When I was rearranging my stored pots and bins on the bakc deck, I spotted one bin from the Harlequin grow with a number of seedlings in them. The seeds survived a deep freeze and have given rise to a concurrent journal to watch what I am going to get from the second generation of Harleys and/or Harleghanis (I don't know which).

So, here goes!

What strain is it? either pure Harlequin or AFG X HAR.
Is it Indica, Sativa or Hybrid? What percentages? either one will be Hybrid due to ancestry. 50/50 on Harleghani
Is it in Veg or Flower stage? Veg
If in Veg... For how long? Approx a week, maybe less. Let's call it May 4, 2019.
If in Flower stage... For how long? not yet
Indoor or outdoor? Outdoors for now, as long as I can keep them hidden
Soil or Hydro? Soil
If soil... what is in your mix? 1/2 Perlite, sand, Black Gold indoor potting soil, worm castings
If soil... What size pot? 3 gallon tall trash bin
Size of light? Several million (billion?) magnitudes the size of Earth
Is it air cooled? I would say so. LOL!
Temp of Room/cab? 50's - 60 daytime, high 40's night. Periods of rain, alternating with sun.
RH of Room/cab? varies daily
PH of media or res? NA
Any Pests ? Probably. Will deal with those when I bring them in for flowering.
How often are you watering? letting nature do her thing.
Type and strength of ferts used? None yet

First Picture, on a rainy day on the deck.

Harley offspring 1 wk old.JPG

• AKgramma
• May 8, 2019

I'll have to debug them and bring them in when they start showing their distinctive leaves, OR, I could put a visual barrier around the bin and veg them outdoors. The last crop was fairly short, and I would expect these to be the same..... unless they are Harleghani-afghani offspring, then height might be an issue. I produced two strains of seed last grow: HAR x HAR and AFG X HAR.

 

[AKgramma]

Looking back on my Harley Grow in 2018, I pollinated one lady Afghani with male Harlequin pollen, which was in the breeding unit with male and female Harleys.

I will be able to identify what strain the offspring are once they get some true leaves, as the Harleys have red petiole (stems on leaves).

 

[SweetSue]

Looks like Mother Nature thought you needed more charges. Lol! Good luck, and for goodness sake, keep those babies out of sight of the general public.

 

[AKgramma]

Looks like Mother Nature thought you needed more charges. Lol! Good luck, and for goodness sake, keep those babies out of sight of the general public.

I think I have it covered, Sue. The back deck is where the unused posts and bins are stacked, and the railing styles are really close together, so it all looks like junk from the street, IF you can see past the hanging tree branches. White reflective surface (more junk) is in place, as it is a North-facing deck, and I want to bounce the sun's rays off it.

I prefer the junk storage look over a greenhouse because a greenhouse around here is a dead giveaway. It's either tomatoes or Cannabis.

Maybe the lady in flower will be harvested by the time I need to bring the bin inside (when it is too big to remain hidden).

Transplanting them to separate bins might damage the roots at this early stage, so will probably let them grow as-is. I expect 2 or more of them will be males, so those will be harvested early and ground up for cooking. That will eliminate the crowding.

 

[AKgramma]

I think I will take a chance and bring in the bin. Hopefully there are no mites, seeing as the temps have not hit 60 yet. I'll isolate it with a clear plastic bag, just in case it is infested.

Gonna let it drain for a few hours. it is so waterlogged I can't lift it

 

[AKgramma]

it IS possible that the sprouts are not cannabis, but lawn weed or wild flower sprouts. Wont be able to tell till the true leaves show. The bin was open and outside after the last harvest.

 

[AKgramma]

SUCCESS! It finally dawned on me that the mystery seedlings are in a 5 gallon trash bin, and I only used that bin in one grow in my perpetual grow. The first pic is dated May 31, 2018, on page 85, post #1695.

Reading back on that grow and the ups and downs of breeding the seeds, It is a very good chance that the sprouts are ATF x Afghani and/or Afghani x ATF offspring. it was the only cross I did that grow. Seeds from the harvest obviously fell into the 5 gallon bin. My goal was to increase the number of ATF seeds.

The 5 gallon bin was so heavy, even a year ago, that after the harvest, I set it outside and after that, reduced the size of my grow because the family wasn't coming to Gramma for goodies anymore.

Once I can lift that bin onto my rolling walker, it will go into the center of the grow unit, and I'll grow all 5 together. When the males show, they'll be ground up for herbs to give the females room to fill out.

They are looking very cannabis today, with true leaves beginning to show.

BONUS
I spotted another sprout with a bright red stem in a pot with what is left of a failed reveg, snuggled in the immature phase of the ferns growing under the deck. They look like frilly green leaves lying on the soil. They are called gametophytes. As they mature, they will change into the 4 - 5 foot ostrich ferns we have growing wild here. I'll get a pic or two and show you what I mean.

The gametophytes will give rise to a sexual forms called an antherium and an archegonium, which will produce sperm and eggs, which will give rise to the mature form of a fern.

Fern gametophytes.JPG

• AKgramma
• May 13, 2019

More gametophytes.JPG

• AKgramma
• May 13, 2019

Sorry about the orientation. it didn't show up until I imported them into 420 Gallery.

Nature certainly is giving me more babies to nurse!

 

[AKgramma]

I've asked the admins to rename this journal AKGramma's ATF-AFG Offspring Grow.

 

[TorturedSoul]

That cross could be interesting, medicinally speaking. It could be interesting in other ways, too, of course . . . .

 

[AKgramma]

The concurrent link in my siggy has been updated. TY, Admins, for changing the name of the journal for me!

I used the Report tool to make the request. I remember seeing instructions on the site to do it this way.

 

[AKgramma]

Sorry for all the confusion up to now, with me trying to identify the mystery sprouts in the outdoor bin. I wish there was a way to edit or delete those mislabeled pics, and update those posts. :-(

My spidey-sense is hollering at me NOT to put the outdoor bin in with the rest of the grow, but to isolate it elsewhere. So I've purged another shelving unit across the room and will set up a grow unit there. I still have plenty of CFL's to light it up long enough to make sure there are no critters on the ATF-AFG offpring. (and to allow the main unit to cycle through).

I expect the ATF-AFG sprouts to be mostly male, but one never knows. It's the first time I have exposed seedlings to below 50F temps with uncontrolled humidity and air flow.

 

[AKgramma]

It was quite a chore for these old bones and aching body, but I managed to purge some junk, set up a set of wire shelving for an auxiliary grow, and haul the 5 gallon bin with the ATFxAFG offspring into their new home indoors.

The new home, all snuggled in

ATFxAFG New Home.JPG

• AKgramma
• May 14, 2019

I missed the left-most sprout in this pic, hence the arrow.

ATFxAFG Offspring.JPG

• AKgramma
• May 14, 2019

Now: fingers crossed that no mites appear!

 

[TorturedSoul]

I expect the ATF-AFG sprouts to be mostly male, but one never knows. It's the first time I have exposed seedlings to below 50F temps with uncontrolled humidity and air flow.

That's what you do when you're hoping for 80% - or more - females, lol. Along with giving more nitrogen and less potassium, and more blue light (but less hours of light).

From literature and our own findings it appears that the growth of a male or female plant from seed, except for the predisposition in the gender chromosomes, also depends on various environmental factors. The environmental factors that influence gender are:

• a higher nitrogen concentration will give more females.
• a higher potassium concentration will give more males.
• a higher humidity will give more females.
• a lower temperature will give more females.
• more blue light will give more females.
• Fewer hours of light will give more females.

It is important to start these changes at the three-pairs-of-leaves stage and continue for two or three weeks, before reverting to standard conditions.

This appears to be logical. Remember, in nature, the only goal is to reproduce. You don't want the males of a species to shoot their release their pollen at the wrong time.

 

[AKgramma]

The question is, TS, is at what stage does the female-producing conditions have to occur? The seeds wintered over with snow cover and temps in the single digits, and the seedlings exposed to continual temps below 50F since they sprouted, until I brought them inside yesterday. My grow units hold a steady 80F year-round, and indoor humidity almost never rises above 50%, but sometimes drops to 30% in the winter.

It is not economical for me to invest in environment-controlling equipment, since I have no extra income to compensate for the extra expense.

I'm hoping that at least 2 sprouts turn out to be male, so I can harvest those out for herbs, and leave the rest of the 5 gallon bin for no more than 3 girls.

 

[TorturedSoul]

Bring them into the heat early enough... Might be dropping seedlings into "high Summer" conditions. That could bring about a higher percentage of males.

It's open for debate whether this stuff works, anyway. But I believe that environmental conditions do play a part. A genetic line in which the males produced their pollen too early would probably not have been a successful one. Maybe in a species where the pollen is more robust (aka "waterproof" ).

Give them 18 hours of reddish-hued light in a warm room with minimal nitrogen and extra potassium, maybe you'll end up with a field of stallions.

Or maybe not. IDK.

 

[AKgramma]

Bring them into the heat early enough... Might be dropping seedlings into "high Summer" conditions. That could bring about a higher percentage of males.

It's open for debate whether this stuff works, anyway. But I believe that environmental conditions do play a part. A genetic line in which the males produced their pollen too early would probably not have been a successful one. Maybe in a species where the pollen is more robust (aka "waterproof" ).

Give them 18 hours of reddish-hued light in a warm room with minimal nitrogen and extra potassium, maybe you'll end up with a field of stallions.

Or maybe not. IDK.

I understood that the switch to a flowering nute mix is only for mid to late flowering. And my MARS 300 is not adjustable. It's all or nothing. But I just have the two wavelengths of CFLs on them now: 2700 and 5000. I have found that one does not need to force the production of males.

Nothing I can do about this, anyway. All I care about is not having brought mites in, after a year without any infestations. I have them isolated i their own grow unit, and will leave them there until they get too tall to fit, well into late flower.

edit:

Oh. OK, I see where you're coming from. You're saying that I just might get all males because I abruptly brought them into a warm enclosure. Can't be helped. I am trying to avoid the bug season, because eventually, I would have had to bring it indoors anyway. And this is the chosen option.

 

[TorturedSoul]

If I wished to see more males, I might use the 2,700K bulbs early in the young plants' lives. I know that's the opposite of the norm (but most folks want females).

It's probably best to think of the things on the list I quoted as being contributing factors, rather than any one - or even all of them together - causing males with 100% certainty. Do what you can and hope it helps enough to influence the M:F ratio to suit.

 

[AKgramma]

A lot to consider! Since I can't control the temps (my units have always been an even 80F), I might be able to work with the theory to increase thefemale side of that ratio. ;-)

 

[TorturedSoul]

If you find something that seems to work, please let us know. If you end up thinking it was all balderdash, please let us know that, too.

 

[AKgramma]

If you find something that seems to work, please let us know. If you end up thinking it was all balderdash, please let us know that, too.

My grow provides too small a sample to be of any use proving or disproving a hypothesis. The most plants my set up can handle are 8 plants at a time. Even trying to keep a perpetual grow going, I ended up with more failures than successes (esp in cloning).

But you know this. You have followed me since I first joined 420. ;-)