Amnesia Fast leaf problems

[Stoneface Jack]

Hey Everyone,
I'm having a bit of an issue with the leaves of an Amnesia Fast plant. She's just 9 days old, and the leaves are growing fairly quickly, but they're misshapen. I would think that a pest had been nibbling on them, but the edges aren't damaged, just crooked and weird.
When she put out her first true leaves one was narrow, and the other was wide. I figured she was just a weird seedling and that she would grow out of it. She sort of did, but then the wide leaf put out a tiny poorly formed leaflet. Now, her second set of leaves is coming in crooked, with a bit of discolouration on one edge, totally crooked, and bigger on one side than the other.
It doesn't seem to be slowing her growth, she's the same size as the Lemonchello Haze and the Bruce Banger seedlings that are the same age as her, in the same medium, light, and growing conditions. I'm kinda stumped. All I can think is that it's genetic.
What I'm wondering is whether or not I should cull her and start another seed. Any opinions?
Anyone have a seedling doing the same kind of thing, or have you had this happen to one of your plants?
I'm not sure if the pic really shows what's going on. I'll be taking more tonight under better light, and I'll try to get some clearer shots.
Light: sf1000 LED
Medium: Pro Mix Organic Moisture control blend
Water: Tap, when pot is light
Nutes: none yet
Temp: 19C lights off. 26C lights on
Humidity: 45-50%

Not a great pic, but you can see that the leaves are growing different sizes, and some of the discolouration on the edge of the smaller leaf (the one that's pointing towards the top right corner of the pic)>

Any help, or opinions are welcome.
Thanks in advance
Jack

 

[CO Finest]

Two things it could be. One is Ph could be off a little with the leaf twisting that is a good sign for Ph, two is genetics are bad which I am leaning on being the real problem with the different leaf growth size. At that size its a little hard to tell. I would give it a couple of weeks to see what the newer growth does. If you see the same side leaf's growing short then you know for sure its genetics.

 

[Stoneface Jack]

Thanks for the quick response!
Genetics would be my first guess as well. After the leaf sizes of the first set started to even out, I was thinking I was just freaking out over nothing, and she would grow out of it. Now these leaves are coming in even worse.
I'll still be taking better pics later, maybe my camera has a macro mode.
I don't really think it's ph as she's getting the same water as her sisters, and they're fine. It's also fresh soil, so well buffered. I've also used the same method to start my plants, with the same materials, for the last couple of years.
Think I should start a new plant, just in case?

 

[dick23rk]

Exactly what COfinest said. When it's that young it's really hard to tell, I have had many babies do this and still continue to.
Do you know what the ph of the promix organic soil was? Sometimes the first couple waterings can get thrown off if the ph of the soil is too much different from the ph of your water, if that's the case it normally settles out fairly quickly.

 

[CO Finest]

I personally would wait a couple of weeks, at that size two big factors can cause the same thing. When real young like that a little stress could cause growth defects too. Transplanting other stress things can cause that. if you wait until the next growth to see how it grows that should tell you if genetics are bad or not. I have had some do that to me and they grew out of that just fine. Some strains are just a pain in the ass and others are easy peasy. Your call my friend.

 

[Stoneface Jack]

Exactly what COfinest said. When it's that young it's really hard to tell, I have had many babies do this and still continue to.
Do you know what the ph of the promix organic soil was? Sometimes the first couple waterings can get thrown off if the ph of the soil is too much different from the ph of your water, if that's the case it normally settles out fairly quickly.

I don't know what the ph of the pro mix was/is, but I mixed it up pretty thoroughly to break up any clumps and to remove the largest debris from it, and split it between the three pots. I can't say for sure that ph isn't a factor, but the other two seedlings aren't having any issues. They are different strains though.

I personally would wait a couple of weeks, at that size two big factors can cause the same thing. When real young like that a little stress could cause growth defects too. Transplanting other stress things can cause that. if you wait until the next growth to see how it grows that should tell you if genetics are bad or not. I have had some do that to me and they grew out of that just fine. Some strains are just a pain in the ass and others are easy peasy. Your call my friend.

I'll give her a couple weeks to settle down. I'm not a big fan of culling plants that might grow out of their issues, but I'm sharing some of this season's crop with a family member who is having a bit of trouble filling their prescription.
I'll try to wait it out. At least I started these early.

Thanks guys. I'm probably overthinking this, and overreacting. I'll give her some time. Here's a couple of pics from last night.

 

[Nunyabiz]

I would slide that clear cup into a red one, roots don't like light.

Sometimes twisted leaves can just be very fast growth, the twisting usually stops at the next set of leaves.

 

[dick23rk]

I was just about to mention the same thing about the clear cup, I didn't notice that in the first photo. Drop it inside a colored one or wrap it with electrical tape. Anything to keep the light off the roots.

I'm sure she will come right out of that twisty leaf thing, it's only the first set of leaves anyways, go by the next few sets when looking for issues.

 

[Stoneface Jack]

They're actually peanut butter tubs, well washed and drainage holes added at the bottom. I've used them for the last couple of years to start seedlings. I haven't had any problems with the roots, they just grow along the side like with normal pots until they're transplanted, but it is probably best to avoid any possible stressors for now.
I'll come up with some covers for them.

 

[Stoneface Jack]

Friday update, she's still freaky.

 

[Stoneface Jack]

Well, she's growing pretty quickly, but she's still growing weird. I'm more interested now though. If she had stalled out or stunted I wouldn't be keeping her, but it looks like we'll be seeing how well she does outdoors this season.

 

[013]

I know this smacks in the face of conventional wisdom about the peat pellets. I’ve read this before elsewhere here at 420 plus I have experienced it myself. I had plants that did not take off and even a few that died rather young. When I did rootopsy (autopsy on roots) the roots never penetrated the membrane on the peat pellets. Obviously the roots are supposed to grow right thru and I know many people use them quite successfully and perhaps it’s too risky or too late to make changes now but in the future I would remove the membrane before transplant. As a result I switched over to rapid rooters

Another thing is about homemade planter cups, we have all done this myself included. But after a recent round of slow growing problematic seedlings I have reevaluated the practice. There is a huge problem, the drain holes in the bottom - the cup bottom does not allow for air to move thru the cup, look at planter pots from the nursery, they have holes in the lower sides. Heres pics of my cheapie clear modified Mickey D germination and seedling starter cups, helps the soil to dry out much better than my bottom drilled cups. Yep I slide a sleeve of tin foil over the clear cup to protect the roots from light

As long as a plant is green I don’t cull it, but you are well qualified to make your own choices. Hope these gals straighten out and fly right for you, best of luck!

3DA408F8-FC6A-4ADF-8542-8900420A5A12.jpeg

• 013
• Mar 22, 2021

 

[dick23rk]

At this point now I'm going to say it's just a genetic issue that's causing the twisty leaves. If it's getting decent oxygen in the medium you should be fine. And if it was a ph issue I'm sure you would know by now as other problems can come from that. It could just be a finicky girl too, keep it and love it

 

[Stoneface Jack]

I know this smacks in the face of conventional wisdom about the peat pellets. I’ve read this before elsewhere here at 420 plus I have experienced it myself. I had plants that did not take off and even a few that died rather young. When I did rootopsy (autopsy on roots) the roots never penetrated the membrane on the peat pellets. Obviously the roots are supposed to grow right thru and I know many people use them quite successfully and perhaps it’s too risky or too late to make changes now but in the future I would remove the membrane before transplant. As a result I switched over to rapid rooters

Another thing is about homemade planter cups, we have all done this myself included. But after a recent round of slow growing problematic seedlings I have reevaluated the practice. There is a huge problem, the drain holes in the bottom - the cup bottom does not allow for air to move thru the cup, look at planter pots from the nursery, they have holes in the lower sides. Heres pics of my cheapie clear modified Mickey D germination and seedling starter cups, helps the soil to dry out much better than my bottom drilled cups. Yep I slide a sleeve of tin foil over the clear cup to protect the roots from light

As long as a plant is green I don’t cull it, but you are well qualified to make your own choices. Hope these gals straighten out and fly right for you, best of luck!

3DA408F8-FC6A-4ADF-8542-8900420A5A12.jpeg

• 013
• Mar 22, 2021

The roots are fine. I've posted a picture below, taken last night.

I have heard of people having problems with the membranes of the pellets, but I have never experienced any myself. I did peel the membrane off of pellets before, but because of how small they are and how fast roots grow I accidentally tore off the tips of the taproots. It stunted them and the roots didn't fill the containers as quickly as usual.
I actually put drain holes on the sides of the containers instead of the bottoms. They don't usually receive any nutes while in these, so I'm not worried about salts and such collecting in the bottoms, and I have been covering the containers during lights on, but with fabric so the water can still drain out if it needs to. I have grown (small) plants from seed to harvest in these (like a private version of a solo cup challenge) and the only effect on the roots I could see was a little bit of algae, and some greenish bits.

All good points though. Thanks for the response.

Side note, all the pics in this thread are of the same plant.

 

[Stoneface Jack]

At this point now I'm going to say it's just a genetic issue that's causing the twisty leaves. If it's getting decent oxygen in the medium you should be fine. And if it was a ph issue I'm sure you would know by now as other problems can come from that. It could just be a finicky girl too, keep it and love it

Same here. I will be keeping her. Thanks for the responses. I guess I'm just a little stressed out being responsible for someone else's meds this year.

 

[013]

Ah yes sir those roots look excellent!!! Yes it would be easy to damage roots by removing the skin, I just snipped the skin on my later grows and left it attached but splayed open, but then found rapid rooters and went with that. I was kinda disappointed because I love peat pellets then had problems with them. Alrighty then let’s chalk that up to genetics & the weird things that seedlings do to freak us out and make us go hmmm?