Any idea what's up with these seedlings?

MGD420

Well-Known Member
Why are the leaves in these seedling curling down ? Is it overwatering, underwatering, heat etc. I posted on my journal asking but didn't get a reply regarding my plants.

At the moment the plants are under a phlizon ph-d6 led light. They get around 18 - 20 hours under the light.

They get watered twice a day with about a shot glass worth of water, once when I wake up in the morning and again before I go to bed at night. At least 12 hours apart.

I just recently started mixing some nutrients in with their feed. 0.5ml of canna aqua vega part A and 0.5ml of canna aqua vega part B.
I mix this into 1 litre of water.

Edit: forgot to mention the seedling are mostly growing in perlite with about 10% of that coco. Their final pos are 100% perlite but used a small amount of coco to get the seeds started.

Any help would be appreciated, thanks.

20210722_122452.jpg
 

Emilya

Member of the Month: Mar 2019, June 2022 - Grow Journal of the Month: Jan 2020, Aug 2021, June 2022
Being that you are in coco and perlite, soon all perlite, you are in a hydro type grow. There is nothing in that medium to supply needed nutrients to the plants. You should be feeding every time you water, and twice a day is totally appropriate to this grow method. Someone better at this than I should be around soon to help you figure out a feeding schedule and routine for these plants. Good luck!
 

MGD420

Well-Known Member
Being that you are in coco and perlite, soon all perlite, you are in a hydro type grow. There is nothing in that medium to supply needed nutrients to the plants. You should be feeding every time you water, and twice a day is totally appropriate to this grow method. Someone better at this than I should be around soon to help you figure out a feeding schedule and routine for these plants. Good luck!

Hi Emilya.
Thanks for the reply.

I understand that coco and perlite is hydro.
My last grow was in hempy's but I used 80 - 85% coco the rest perlite. Plants were fine for the first couple of weeks on the last grow without nutrients so thought it would be the same this time around that I could go a week or two before feeding nutrients. My understanding was that new seedlings have enough to sustain themselves for a bit before needing nutrients but this is only my second grow so I don't know that much about growing.
 

FelipeBlu

Member of the Month: Dec 2021
Is this hempy, MGD?

Leaf tips pointing down tends to indicate that the plant is working on a root issue. In hempy (at least), the plant initially puts energy into growing roots before you see much top growth.

In any case, Sensei Emilya is correct - little seedlings in coco or perlite need to be fed - starting when you see the first true leaves (not cots) getting pushed out. I don’t know your nutrients, but they should be getting about 50ppm N at this point.
 

FelipeBlu

Member of the Month: Dec 2021
Also, if this is hempy, you really don’t have to water every day. The seedlings aren’t drinking that fast. And perlite provides plenty of oxygen.

Trust your reservoir - you only need to refresh every 2-3 days at this point.
 

MGD420

Well-Known Member
Is this hempy, MGD?

Leaf tips pointing down tends to indicate that the plant is working on a root issue. In hempy (at least), the plant initially puts energy into growing roots before you see much top growth.

In any case, Sensei Emilya is correct - little seedlings in coco or perlite need to be fed - starting when you see the first true leaves (not cots) getting pushed out. I don’t know your nutrients, but they should be getting about 50ppm N at this point.

Hi FelipeBlu.
Thanks for the reply.

Enitially the grow was going to be hempy but due to it being up the loft I've set the buckets up as bato/dutch buckets to make it easier for feeding the plants and emptying the reservoir when needed if I'm not able to get up into the loft.

The nutrients I'm using are the canna aqua vega and Flores. Vega for Veg and flores for flower.
The nutrients are designed for setups that recirculate.
Would I be better using either my canna coco a+b nutrients or my advanced nutrients ph perfect at the moment until the plants go into their main buckets as those nutrients are more for run to waste type grows whereas the canna aqua is meant for recirculated grows.

This is the feeding program for the aqua vega/flores. From what I understand the recommended dosages by canna are way more than what most people would recommend.




I have a ppm/ec truncheon there I can mix a fresh batch of nutes at 50ppm.

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MGD420

Well-Known Member
Also, if this is hempy, you really don’t have to water every day. The seedlings aren’t drinking that fast. And perlite provides plenty of oxygen.

Trust your reservoir - you only need to refresh every 2-3 days at this point.
Hi FelipeBlu

There is no reservoir at the moment. The plants are in small plant pots. Once they get transplanted into their main buckets there will be a reservoir.

Thanks for the help
 

FelipeBlu

Member of the Month: Dec 2021
I've set the buckets up as bato/dutch buckets
Depending on how high your drain is located, Dutch buckets can have a reservoir and be like hempy.
The nutrients I'm using are the canna aqua vega and Flores. Vega for Veg and flores for flower.
The nutrients are designed for setups that recirculate.
Would I be better using either my canna coco a+b nutrients or my advanced nutrients ph perfect at the moment until the plants go into their main buckets as those nutrients are more for run to waste type grows whereas the canna aqua is meant for recirculated grows.
Recirculating the nutrients shouldn’t be a problem at this point - the little plant isn’t really pulling enough nutrients to change the composition very much.

“I have a ppm/ec truncheon there I can mix a fresh batch of nutes at 50ppm.”

You should mix so that N is about 50ppm, not the mix itself. If you post a photo of the bottles showing the guaranteed analysis (usually on the back) and give me the volume and net weight (usually on the front), I can try to help.
 

013

Member of the Month: Aug 2021
Hey MGD,

The 2 round leaves that first pop are called cotyledons, they gather light to help the plant launch the next set of leaves, but the cotys are also a backup food source for seedling and soon they yellow out and fall off. You will be better getting light dose of nutes into them sooner rather than later when you start seedlings in hydro formats.

There are zero nutes in coco to nourish a plant….. same goes for perlite and same goes for plain water or plain ph water only a few auxiliary minerals in very low dose in water. Hempy is hydro and plants grown in hydro formats must be bottle fed that NPK plus cal-mag
 

FelipeBlu

Member of the Month: Dec 2021
On the feed chart you posted, it’s unclear to me if the 20-30ml/10L for weeks 0-3 is for both or each of the 2 bottles (A and B). Since 20ml/10L of each bottle would provide 264ppm of N (!!), I’m going to hope it’s the total of the two bottles.

From this image, both bottles look like they have the same guaranteed analysis label.

72ECF90F-212E-45A9-9931-8C745F73CF96.jpeg


Using the information available to me, if you followed the feed chart for the bottle label I found, and assumed 10ml of each/10L, you would be providing 132ppm of N (132-26-149). This might be a bit much for a new seedling.

I would probably start with something like 10ml ( 5ml of each)/10ml, which should provide 66ppm of N.
 

MGD420

Well-Known Member
Depending on how high your drain is located, Dutch buckets can have a reservoir and be like hempy.

Recirculating the nutrients shouldn’t be a problem at this point - the little plant isn’t really pulling enough nutrients to change the composition very much.


“I have a ppm/ec truncheon there I can mix a fresh batch of nutes at 50ppm.”

You should mix so that N is about 50ppm, not the mix itself. If you post a photo of the bottles showing the guaranteed analysis (usually on the back) and give me the volume and net weight (usually on the front), I can try to help.
Hi FelipeBlu
Thanks again for the reply.

Sorry for the late reply.

The drainage holes for the buckets sit about 1 1/2 inch up from the base of the buckets. There are 10 buckets in total. For every 2 buckets they connect in a T like shape that is then connected to a 50mm drainage pipe underneath.

Here's a pic of the actual setup itself.

20210721_221401.jpg


I have taken the 2 × 20L reservoir buckets away as they were leaking. Going to try get a larger bucket tomorrow to try fix the problem.
I reused the 20L buckets but because they were hempys the holes were at the bottom. I thought by using connectors with rubber seals would have worked fine but I was wrong.

How do I go about measuring N (I'm assuming Nitrogen) using the ppm truncheon ?
I noticed that you posted a pic of the labels for the vega a+b in another reply.
 

MGD420

Well-Known Member
On the feed chart you posted, it’s unclear to me if the 20-30ml/10L for weeks 0-3 is for both or each of the 2 bottles (A and B). Since 20ml/10L of each bottle would provide 264ppm of N (!!), I’m going to hope it’s the total of the two bottles.

From this image, both bottles look like they have the same guaranteed analysis label.
72ECF90F-212E-45A9-9931-8C745F73CF96.jpeg


Using the information available to me, if you followed the feed chart for the bottle label I found, and assumed 10ml of each/10L, you would be providing 132ppm of N (132-26-149). This might be a bit much for a new seedling.

I would probably start with something like 10ml ( 5ml of each)/10ml, which should provide 66ppm of N.

5ml A and 5ml B in 10 litres.
I know from what I've read regarding canna's nutrients that their feeding charts are always on the high side. A lot of folk that use their brand from what I've read online recommended using around 1/4.

I haven't started using the main buckets yet.

Im assuming what I've been giving them is fine ? I mixed 1ml into 1 litre of water a couple days ago 0.5ml A and 0.5ml B. Thays what they have been getting.

Thanks again.
Your help is very much appreciated.
 

MGD420

Well-Known Member
Hey MGD,

The 2 round leaves that first pop are called cotyledons, they gather light to help the plant launch the next set of leaves, but the cotys are also a backup food source for seedling and soon they yellow out and fall off. You will be better getting light dose of nutes into them sooner rather than later when you start seedlings in hydro formats.

There are zero nutes in coco to nourish a plant….. same goes for perlite and same goes for plain water or plain ph water only a few auxiliary minerals in very low dose in water. Hempy is hydro and plants grown in hydro formats must be bottle fed that NPK plus cal-mag

Hi 013.

Thanks for the reply.

I understand with both coco and perlite that they are hydro and inert offering no goodness and are nothing like soil.
My first grow was in coco the last time and i went around 12 to 14 days before feeding any nutes where the plants were healthy so made the assumption it would have been fine.
Like you mention about the cotyledons being a food source for seedlings this is where my assumption that it would have been fine for me to start nutes after a week or so came from. This is only my second grow so I still have lots to learn and when the time comes to start another grow I will keep in mind to give the seedlings light nutrient feeds from the start.
 

MGD420

Well-Known Member

Is there any feeding routine you could recommend for me at certain stages of the grow ? Apart from using 1/4 of what canna recommends. How will I know how much to feed the plants over the coming weeks/months and when to up the nutrients.

Before I used advanced nutrients but used their BudLabs app that gives feeding schedules.

Would I just up the nutrients according to the canna feeding chart but at a 1/4 of what they recommend for each growing phase from start to finish ?
I won't be using any if the other stuff they recommend just the vega and flores.

Thanks again.
 

MGD420

Well-Known Member
So you essentially have a 1-1/2” deep reservoir > shallow hempy! :ganjamon:
Yea the res on the buckets are about 1 1/2 to 2 inches at most.

With it being dutch though will the size of reservoir matter much since everything is recirculated ?

I know its a bit late now but for future reference what size of reservoir for the buckets would you recommend ?

Thanks again.
 
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MGD420

Well-Known Member
Cool deal - just checking in on you man, sweet setup - I like it!!!
I appreciate you posting.
Thanks, have some teething problems at the moment though as had a leak when filling the main reservoir.
I'm sure I've read some of your posts previously, another member mentioned you in one of their posts. Did you do a dutch/bato style hempy grow ?
 

FelipeBlu

Member of the Month: Dec 2021
Would I just up the nutrients according to the canna feeding chart but at a 1/4 of what they recommend for each growing phase from start to finish ?
It isn’t a bad NPK ratio (~5-1-6) - it’s a little light on Ca and Mg - but you can always add a little CalMg. You could probably bump the dose up by 5ml/10L every week - just watch the color of the bottom leaves and increase if they start to turn a pale green. You could probably run the entire grow with Vega - bloom boosters are not really necessary.
With it being dutch thought will the size of reservoir matter much since everything is recirculated ?
No, but if your timer or pump quits, ya have a res to save yer butt!
What size of reservoir for the buckets would you recommend ?
Hempy usually has a reservoir that is around 20% of the bucket volume - typically about 2 to 2 1/2” above the bottom.
:48:
 
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