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Autoflowers have cost me big time!

Thread starter #1
hi all,this is my 1st post..straight to it,been growing barneys farm critical kush with massive yeild,thought i would try there critical rapido...

omg there 2wks away from done and i'll be lucky to get 1/8 oz per plant....cant belive i was sucked in by this auto hype...its cost me hundreds of £ in elec/seed/nutes.

So disapointed in barney all there fems are awesome but rapido is ajoke,total garbage big budda seeds critical mass auto arnt much better either, im aware there crossed with shitty hemp,but this is unbeliveable.

Ive used both companys for years with awesome results but imho autos seem such a waste of time n cash,why have they even bothered?.

Anyone else had hassle with autos?
 

Bangabong

Well-Known Member
So far I have had good results from autos. They do seem to have different nute requirements, but that could just be my perception since I am new to hydroponics.
 
calm down buddy, auto's are much harder to grow then regular ones. make a mistake and boom... yield is like yours. you are doing something wrong. this is a pretty good guide, keeping in mind that PH and flushing is a must. 200w per plant and more if you want those insane yields.




LIFECYCLE OF AN AUTO

A common question I see is when to switch autos from veg to bloom. Many people are under the impression that as soon as they see the first flowers it's time to switch. Perhaps a little explanation of the life cycle of autos will help to clarify this.

Weeks 1 - 3. Once you've started your seeds and they break the surface of the soil, they are in their seedling stage. The first set of leaves to appear will usually single fingered, followed by a second set that may still be single fingered or perhaps 3 fingered. Once that second set appears growth will start to accelerate as the new leaves provide more photosynthesis. This process will continue, more new leaves, faster growth. Depending on the type of soil in use, mild vegetative nutes can be introduced at week 2. By week 3 most plants will start to show their sex. Males will start to produce pollen sacks and females will display pistils.

Weeks 4 - 6. The plants are now entering a pre flowering stage. During this time the plants should exhibit explosive growth, often as much as a new set of nodes and 1" vertical growth a day. This is the time when they will gain most of their vertical height. Many people make the mistake of switching from vegetative to flowering nutrients at this point, assuming that since they see flowers it must be the proper time. This is incorrect. If the switch to flowering nutes is made at this time the vertical growth will stop and the plant will put it's energy into producing buds. If you need to keep your plants small, or want them to finish earlier, they by all means switch nutes at this point. But if you want to get the most out of your plants continue feeding vegetative nutes until you see the vertical growth slow and stop. Depending on the strain that will usually be sometime during week 5 or 6.

Weeks 7 - 9. By now vertical growth has stopped and the switch to flowering nutrients has been made. The buds will start to fill out and put on weight, becoming hard and tight. Pistols will start to change from white to brown, orange, red, etc. By now the plants will also have developed a strong smell. Toward the end of this phase the large primary and smaller secondary fan leaves will begin to turn yellow. This is an indication that the plant is moving toward the end of it's life.

Weeks 10 - 11. At this time flowering nutes should be discontinued and only plain pHed water fed to flush the remaining nutrients from the soil and improve the taste. Yellowing of the fan leaves will continue as the plant draws the stored energy from them. Eventually they will die and fall off. By the time that the smaller leaves that come from out of the buds will also start to turn yellow. Then it's time to harvest.

I know that many of you are thinking that the seed bank said the plants will finish in 8-9 weeks, so why are you saying they take 10-11? The claims made by the seed banks are somewhat deceptive. If you switch to flowering nutes at week 3 or 4 the plants can finish in the times the seed banks say but they will remain small and not reach their full potential yield. Years of growing by myself and others has shown that autos do best if you follow this time line.

Of course, there will always be variations depending on the strain, the environment, nutrients, etc. This information is meant to only serve as a general guideline.
 
Follow the snowman dude and all will be well. I wish i would have read such a post 3 yrs ago, would have saved me lotsa headaches :). My current grow is going on 6th wk from seed and i used no nutes at all until wk 5, and plants are doin better than ever. Using Fox-Farm soil i find it is good enough w/o extra nutes for quite a while. So dont give up on autos, and once you get it all dialed in, it is easy to get an ounce or more per plant. PEACE!
 

Devil

New Member
calm down buddy, auto's are much harder to grow then regular ones. make a mistake and boom... yield is like yours. you are doing something wrong. this is a pretty good guide, keeping in mind that PH and flushing is a must. 200w per plant and more if you want those insane yields.




LIFECYCLE OF AN AUTO

A common question I see is when to switch autos from veg to bloom. Many people are under the impression that as soon as they see the first flowers it's time to switch. Perhaps a little explanation of the life cycle of autos will help to clarify this.

Weeks 1 - 3. Once you've started your seeds and they break the surface of the soil, they are in their seedling stage. The first set of leaves to appear will usually single fingered, followed by a second set that may still be single fingered or perhaps 3 fingered. Once that second set appears growth will start to accelerate as the new leaves provide more photosynthesis. This process will continue, more new leaves, faster growth. Depending on the type of soil in use, mild vegetative nutes can be introduced at week 2. By week 3 most plants will start to show their sex. Males will start to produce pollen sacks and females will display pistils.

Weeks 4 - 6. The plants are now entering a pre flowering stage. During this time the plants should exhibit explosive growth, often as much as a new set of nodes and 1" vertical growth a day. This is the time when they will gain most of their vertical height. Many people make the mistake of switching from vegetative to flowering nutrients at this point, assuming that since they see flowers it must be the proper time. This is incorrect. If the switch to flowering nutes is made at this time the vertical growth will stop and the plant will put it's energy into producing buds. If you need to keep your plants small, or want them to finish earlier, they by all means switch nutes at this point. But if you want to get the most out of your plants continue feeding vegetative nutes until you see the vertical growth slow and stop. Depending on the strain that will usually be sometime during week 5 or 6.

Weeks 7 - 9. By now vertical growth has stopped and the switch to flowering nutrients has been made. The buds will start to fill out and put on weight, becoming hard and tight. Pistols will start to change from white to brown, orange, red, etc. By now the plants will also have developed a strong smell. Toward the end of this phase the large primary and smaller secondary fan leaves will begin to turn yellow. This is an indication that the plant is moving toward the end of it's life.

Weeks 10 - 11. At this time flowering nutes should be discontinued and only plain pHed water fed to flush the remaining nutrients from the soil and improve the taste. Yellowing of the fan leaves will continue as the plant draws the stored energy from them. Eventually they will die and fall off. By the time that the smaller leaves that come from out of the buds will also start to turn yellow. Then it's time to harvest.

I know that many of you are thinking that the seed bank said the plants will finish in 8-9 weeks, so why are you saying they take 10-11? The claims made by the seed banks are somewhat deceptive. If you switch to flowering nutes at week 3 or 4 the plants can finish in the times the seed banks say but they will remain small and not reach their full potential yield. Years of growing by myself and others has shown that autos do best if you follow this time line.

Of course, there will always be variations depending on the strain, the environment, nutrients, etc. This information is meant to only serve as a general guideline.
Hi Snowman
I have done a few grows with photoperiod strains and now I am going into AF. I read your post and believe your schedule is what I am going to go with. My question is actually surrounding nutes and soil. I have had good luck with Fox Farm Ocean Forest. From reading this is a "Hot" soil and wont require nutes until around the 6th week or the plants could burn. Happy Frog is a bit for forgiving so my question is if I am following your schedule and using a 18/6 light schedule with 300 W 11 spectrum LED, which soil do you recommend?. Thanks in advance for helping a nooby
 

Devil

New Member
hi all,this is my 1st post..straight to it,been growing barneys farm critical kush with massive yeild,thought i would try there critical rapido...

omg there 2wks away from done and i'll be lucky to get 1/8 oz per plant....cant belive i was sucked in by this auto hype...its cost me hundreds of £ in elec/seed/nutes.

So disapointed in barney all there fems are awesome but rapido is ajoke,total garbage big budda seeds critical mass auto arnt much better either, im aware there crossed with shitty hemp,but this is unbeliveable.

Ive used both companys for years with awesome results but imho autos seem such a waste of time n cash,why have they even bothered?.

Anyone else had hassle with autos?
Autos are as easy as eating pie.

Genetics genetics genetics

Dutch Passion
Sweet Seeds
Budha Seeds
Dinafem
Short stuff seeds

End of story
I got some white widow autos from Royal Queen Seeds. Advice on those?
 
Sorry to hear about your poor results but I have to agree with these guys.. people tend to try and grow AF strains like they did photo period and wind up scratching their heads a bit and just walk away.. these new generation strains are even better then when auto's gave you a choice of lowryder only.. I grow a cross of AK47 x Sour60 and average at least 1.5 oz per plant with only a 400w light.. I did a lot of research and in the end went with all organics as I love the flavor it puts out.. my 1st run just 3mos ago produced narcotic highs and I was hooked.. I even find breeding with them, or just making myself more beans to keep my seeds free, much easier then regular plants.. the males show 1st and fast and I allow the boy to stick around just long enough for the females to show hairs, a few pollen sacs to open on the males and then chop them giving me about 75-100 new seeds on 3 ladies without losing all my buds to seed.. a win win in my book as I now have F1's of this badass cross...
I then found by F.I.M. cutting the ladies about 2wks into flower, they really blow up as I did a side by side experiment with twin pheno's.. don't give up man.. one thing I stay away from is feminized seeds as they just don't seem as robust as regular seedlings, but this is just my preference.. find one or 2 you love, make your own cross and go from there.. my next grow will be Gorilla Grape Auto x Critical Mass.. but here are the twins and the bigger one all spread out with multiple shoots is her twin sister after the FIM cut and these have 30 days to go yet.... woot woot..


her sister would of turned out just like her if not for the trim.. now this is not topping but just cutting the top leaf's in half..


I now have collected over 15 strains and will be doing grow journals here... cheers.
 

Bapple

New Member
I got some white widow autos from Royal Queen Seeds. Advice on those?
The 8 months between when I stumbled on my first lot of seeds and when I could finally start my first grow was spent doing research about Autoflowering Feminised Cannabis and cannabis growing in general. As I am in Europe I concentrated my energy and resources here.....DJ Shorts outfit is on the list because all the others seem to have collaborated with him at one time or the other so I understood that he is considered an authority on Autos.

I have heard RQS mentioned a lot on Autoflowering forum and never heard anything bad.
 
Autos are as easy as eating pie.

Genetics genetics genetics

Dutch Passion
Sweet Seeds
Budha Seeds
Dinafem
Short stuff seeds

End of story

I would add Auto Seeds.
I too had great luck with dinafem
 
Many thanks for the very informative post on the life cycle of an auto! The info will come in quite handy when I start my next grow which I plan on being an auto grow...
 
I haven't had much luck with autos myself. i killed 4 big bang auto fems with heavy nutrient burn. I have one right now in my current grow that has made it but it more than likely wont yield very much. its only about 1.5ft tall and not many bud sites, compared to the non autos in the tent. Im just going to stick with clones, seems to me like you get the better results than autos, in around the same time as growing an auto. Just my 2 cents.
 
COST OF ELECTRICTY AND AUTOS :

It must be compared to "photo" strains to see which cost less.

Autos : 2.5 to 3 months, sometimes more with very specific strains that may require 3.5 month (14 weeks).
Photos = 3 to 4 month, sometimes longer. So it is often 4 weeks more than an auto, sometimes more.

So let's say a photo is at least 1 month more than an auto, but that month will be on 12/12 or less.


Over one year, it is safe to consider that a photo grower will make 3 sessions, while an auto grower will do at least 4.
So this must be taken into consideration : with a photo, you may consume less over 1 year, but you will grow more with autos.

The other factor is the productivity of what you grow.
Autos can be shorter and may produce less that a photo that has been trained during several weeks/month to become bigger, to produce more.

I don't think it is possible to make a mathematical rule because of the many strains that exist and their different growing time, and above all, the skills of the grower.

Autos are really great for outdoor, that's basically what they are made for. Growing autos indoor is not the purpose of autos, but they are quicker and easier to grow, that's why they are succesful. I've grown my most powerful autos outdoor, with only 8 hours of direct sunlight, and the results are at least as good as the autos I am growing indoor on 18/6 . Nothing compares to the sun yet. No light can give you what the sun gives for free. But the sun is not always available to all. That's why most of us use light and electricty (it is obvious, but sometimes necessary to remind).

The calculation should be made once you have chosen a photo and an auto and compare the length of growing and potential productivity.


For example, a new autos strain from a dutch bank requires 14 weeks to grow. Add a couple of weeks of security, that's 15 / 16 weeks. ie , the same as a photo. In this case, economically speaking, it does not make sense to grow an auto over a photo, because in the same amount of time, you will be able to trim your photo to produce more than the auto that takes the same time to grow. However, there are ways to enhance productivity of autos (LST, topping...).

Remember also that, growing indoor is necessarily costly, and few plants make sense to grow indoor. MJ is one of the few plants that makes sense to grow indoor because it is expensive to buy. Growing strawberries indoor is certainly fun and rewarding in terms of taste and fruit size, but does not make much sense economically speaking (yeah, you could show off a little with friends, offering them strawberries that cost you 10 bucks a piece, but well, it is a bit of a waste).

SO the calculation of the "opportunity cost" of growing auto is between the cost of growing and the cost of buying something grown by someone else. It may indeed be more economical to buy as you bought before growing. (makes me think: if you are into saving money by growing, then you must stop buying while you grow, otherwise, you double your spendings (depending on how much MJ you use per week/day etc of course).

And me too, I am wondering if my next sessions will be autos or photos because of this electricty cost. I will have to do the comparison once I have chosen a few autos and photo strains that i could grow. I am growing 10 different auto strains to find a few that I really like, and compare them with photos that I know from friends who grow only regular seeds (they don't grow regular for the cost, but because they don't want genetically modified MJ, they want the real thing).

I hope it helps. I am not that experienced neither, so may be more experienced users would like to correct me (thanks in advance ;-) )

NB: my 2nd grow was a total failure in terms of production... and while it was growing, I was buying too. Cost wise, it is crazy if you grow to save money. it simply doesn't make sense economically speaking. but I think i learned a few things from mistakes, so my current grow should be better and more productive. And I simply stopped buying until I can use mine own ;-) (this period of abstinence will also make the strains more powerful because i will not be used to MJ anymore, may be I will also use less quantities and it will last longer). If I don't get what I expect, it will be "bye bye autos, hello regulars").

Check the Auto topping thread by Beast27, there are good tricks in that thread to get more buds. I am experiencing it on a few strains now . Auto Topping Thread
 
PS: you can also check the " F1 " seeds (Fast ones or may be it means formula one, well, it is Fast anyways) : they are autos that may require to swicth the photo period to flower, and they don't take as long as a photo to grow. You may win 2 weeks :) F1 depend even more on the breeders: check their advices first for light periods.

A breeder like "Kannabia" sells autos, but they are not autos as we know them ; the will give the best results indoor with 12/12 or 14/10 from start to end.

Going 18/6 is not advised and they say it is counter productive.

"Kannabia" says:
Automatic cannabis second generation

After passing for a curiosity or a passing fad in their infancy, the auto-flowering cannabis seeds have become for some years now a real option in the cultivation of cannabis . Meanwhile, a host of excellent genetic emerged, in the form of regular or feminized seeds. It was natural that these "standard" varieties also mutate in autoflowering seeds.

Kannabia Seed Company has initially developed the first generation of hybrids, managing to improve the flavor and production plants, but can not stabilize completely, hence the idea to go directly to the next step by starting to work on varieties 2nd generation . These second-generation plants require a period of flowering a bit longer, but the results are in any way superior, and the most significant characteristics of the preserved strains autoflowering: resistance to insects and diseases, disorders of the photoperiod , etc ...

The varieties of automatic Kannabia cannabis are created using feminized pollen of its own strains on female plants derived from crosses with Ruderalis varieties: these autoflowering varieties and present the same characteristics as the plant that produced the pollen , but their time flowering depend on that of the Ruderalis hybrid.

The intent of this seed bank was to develop cannabis plants operating outside perfectly, and it is clear that this is so. The plants are of considerable size, with large compact buds , and through Ruderalis the influence, they do not need a photoperiod change to begin to bloom, and can be harvested when conventional varieties begin flowering in late summer.

Recommendations for optimal cultivation of cannabis seeds autoflowering Kannabia

Kannabia recommend growing these seeds autoflowering only outdoors. However, as some growers prefer indoor growing, Pato, the breeder of Kannabia, advises:

Of the pots below 5 liters
Use photoperiod 12-14-16 hours for faster results. According to his tests, the best results in indoor cultivation are obtained with cycles of 12/12 and 14/10
It is not advisable to practice a higher photoperiod to 16 hours of light per day, this lengthening entire crop cycle, but the proportions of plants that would be more suited to under artificial light culture.
Also, with a photoperiod of 18 hours the it will stop growing fertilizer after two weeks, and force the plants to flower by placing 24 to 48 hours in the dark before replacing the lamp under 18/6.
If the plants do not require a reduction in the photoperiod to flower, they are however sensitive: switch to 20-hour days during the growing and flowering in 12/12 to help speed the process.
It is recommended to use lamps High Pressure Sodium .


That's the only source I know where Kannabia gives advices on how to grow their autos, which are very different from the autos we already know. I think they call them "MaxAuto" now.