Blue Cheese + Bubba Kush - Hempy - OC+ CFLs - First Time!

[twoshoes]

Hi all... this is my first grow, been reading journals for the last couple of months, I couldn't wait to pop a couple of seeds in cups to start germinating as soon as they arrived. I'm growing two plants, one each of Blue Cheese and Bubba Kush, so if I don't screw up I should have some good smoke on my hands

What strain is it? Blue Cheese (BC) / Bubba Kush (BK)
Is it Indica, Sativa or Hybrid? What percentages? Both mostly indica
Is it in Veg or Flower stage? Veg, 13 days
Indoor or outdoor? Indoor, small box (will flower in a purpose-built closet)
Soil or Hydro? Hempy! I'm using perlite:vermiculite 3:1
Size of light? 3 x 24w CFLs
Is it aircooled? Indirectly, 12cm PC fan forces air over plants+lights and is exhausted out the back of the box
Temp of Room/cab? Been struggling with heat, removed a light and adjusted exhaust, now it's at a steady 73 lights on, 62 lights off
RH of Room/cab? Current weather station doesn't show RH
Any Pests? None yet
How often are you watering? Just replanted in hempies so 3 times a day till the roots hit the bottom
Type and strength of ferts used OC+! Also soaked my perlite in pHd and nute water before transplanting like DocBud says, only thing I had on hand was some Miracle Grow plant food, NPK looks similar to OC+, only used it at 1/4 strength

Thanks for getting this far onto some pics! They're nothing too exciting but still...

This is the box I'm vegging in... I've got about 8" under the lights for the plants, from day 1 I've had them sitting on top of CDs so the tops are always ~1" from the lights

I germed the seeds in these little peat pots, took 10 and 12 days to break the ground, I think mainly because we'd been having some cold weather... I think they just sat there waiting until I put them under lights for warmth.

I'm planning on doing some LST before they get too big for the box, when it's time to flower I'll move them to a closet I'll put together, and maybe do a SCROG, we'll see...

Yesterday, On day 12 for the BC (day 10 for the BK, came up two days later), I noticed they had roots poking out the bottom of the peat cups, so I transplanted into mini hempys:

BC is at the top, BK at the bottom. I think I avoided damaging the roots, no real signs of transplant shock, the bigger leaves are drooping a little but I think that's because the roots haven't hit the res yet...

And now some close ups... this is the BC, "Lou" as my girlfriend named her:

I threw a quarter in there for scale. She's 12 days above ground in that pic.

Here's the BK, "Squirt"

I'm trying to take pictures every couple of days, I'll post updates once a week or if something interesting happens.

Now some questions:
They're not very tall, about two inches, so I think they're not getting enough lumens? With three 24w bulbs in they get 4350, if I can solve my heat issues I can add a fourth for 5800 lumens, but am I on the right track? Think I read something Munki posted saying 14000 lumens is optimal...

I'm thinking of getting a 28w led panel from Sunshine Systems, their website says it replaces a 250w HPS. Is that a good idea, or is it overkill for 2 plants? (I'll grow again in the future but probably not more than 2-4 plants at a time)

Thanks!

 

[phdtje]

Re: Blue Cheese + Bubba Kush, Hempy, OC+, CFLs, first time!

hey twoshoes,
Good luck with your first grow.

They look a little over watered, im not familiar with these kind of grow medium mixes. So i cant really advise you there. Works a bit like hydro growing i'm guessing.

If they receive to less lightl, they should stretch more, so i think light is sufficient. I raised about 8 seedlings last time with about 3,500 lumens, about couple of inches above the plants. The further the lamps away the more they stretch. I personally don't see that as negative growing sign, since lower branches usually get trimmed here.

Don't let them tell you lies about LED, it's about 10% less yielding than HPS kind of bulbs. In other words you'll need a 275W LED light at least to level a 250W HPS bulb, specially during flowering. Maybe you meant 280W LED instead of 28W. That's ok then, but don't forget HPS bulbs usually produce enough heat to keep the day temp up without using another heat source.

 

[Doc Bud]

Re: Blue Cheese + Bubba Kush, Hempy, OC+, CFLs, first time!

Lookin' good bro!

Slow and steady does the job, don't love 'em to death. They look pretty good right now, just let those roots develop.

 

[twoshoes]

Re: Blue Cheese + Bubba Kush, Hempy, OC+, CFLs, first time!

Lookin' good bro!

Slow and steady does the job, don't love 'em to death. They look pretty good right now, just let those roots develop.

thanks for stopping by Doc! I'm doing my best to not get obsessed and over analyse things, I'll just have to leave them be and let plants do what they do best

 

[twoshoes]

Re: Blue Cheese + Bubba Kush, Hempy, OC+, CFLs, first time!

Don't let them tell you lies about LED, it's about 10% less yielding than HPS kind of bulbs. In other words you'll need a 275W LED light at least to level a 250W HPS bulb, specially during flowering. Maybe you meant 280W LED instead of 28W. That's ok then, but don't forget HPS bulbs usually produce enough heat to keep the day temp up without using another heat source.

thanks for commenting phdtje! yeah, hempy is stoner-proof hydro, from what I've read. its meant to be impossible to over water, but since my buckets are as wide as they are high my perched water table is probably higher than it should be... I dunno. they've perked up a bit so I think they'be hit the res, so I should be able to back off the watering a bit

thanks for the tip about leds, it is 28 watts, but even an equivalent of a 225w HPS should be sufficient for my needs, I think...

 

[Doc Bud]

Re: Blue Cheese + Bubba Kush, Hempy, OC+, CFLs, first time!

thanks for commenting phdtje! yeah, hempy is stoner-proof hydro, from what I've read. its meant to be impossible to over water, but since my buckets are as wide as they are high my perched water table is probably higher than it should be... I dunno. they've perked up a bit so I think they'be hit the res, so I should be able to back off the watering a bit

thanks for the tip about leds, it is 28 watts, but even an equivalent of a 225w HPS should be sufficient for my needs, I think...

The perched water table has nothing to do with width....capillary action is the same, regardless of width.

the PWT is not something to worry about with perlite.....that's why you can't over water!

 

[twoshoes]

Re: Blue Cheese + Bubba Kush, Hempy, OC+, CFLs, first time!

The perched water table has nothing to do with width....capillary action is the same, regardless of width.

the PWT is not something to worry about with perlite.....that's why you can't over water!

thanks for the clarification Doc! +reps!

I've got a good bit of new growth on the bubba kush so ill switch to watering when she feels light. she's almost caught up with the blue cheese, I think I damaged her roots in the transplant... still looks healthy though, just growing slowly and her big leaves are a bit droopy. nothing much to worry about, she'll be right

 

[twoshoes]

bit of an update: the blue cheese kept on drooping, so I checked out the [thread=71664]Plant Abuse Chart[/thread] and [thread=81275]Pest & Problem Solver[/thread], and I'm thinking I've misdiagnosed over watering as under watering

Here's day 12, immediately after transplanting:

Here's the latest, day 17:

New growth is looking good, but it looks like there's a brown splotch in the middle of it, not sure if that's to be expected...

Here's a close up:

The splotches a browner than the pic shows. In the one I've circled, there's a white shape - could this be a bug causing it? I had another look at the plants after checking out the pics, it just looks like a speck of dust, it's tiny...

I'm almost 100% the green stuff on the perlite in the other circle is just teh OC+ - I've seen similar in other journals

It looks like splotches are forming on the second set of leaves as well... is it something spreading or just more signs of the over water?

I've pushed the perlite down a bit so that the leaves aren't touching it. Should I cut the bottom leaves off so they don't drain strength from the rest of the plant?

Temps have been good, got to 86 one "day" last week but I fixed the temp problems. I'm now running all 4 24w CFLs for 5800 lumens. Temps are now usually 71 lights on, haven't gone over 76 since since I adjusted the box.

I've got some water in the bottom of the tray to try to get the humidity up, I don't have a meter yet but it's been fairly dry generally so I figure it can't hurt. Is there something better to do?

Bubba kush is looking great, think it's telling me off for calling it squirt I'll post a proper update in a couple of days

 

[AmGrowR]

Hi, twoshoes. I am also doing my first hempy and was having the same problems you are, while I was vegging. Turns out I was watering way too often. The plant didn't die, but I do believe the whole veg period was stunted because of it. As of right now, I am watering once a week and that seems to be plenty.

So I would wait an extra 3-4 days in between waterings and see if she starts perking up. She should.

I'm subbed......pullin' up a chair.

 

[Doc Bud]

Hi, twoshoes. I am also doing my first hempy and was having the same problems you are, while I was vegging. Turns out I was watering way too often. The plant didn't die, but I do believe the whole veg period was stunted because of it. As of right now, I am watering once a week and that seems to be plenty.

So I would wait an extra 3-4 days in between waterings and see if she starts perking up. She should.

I'm subbed......pullin' up a chair.

That plant is definitely overwatered.....or is it?

Do you know if the roots have hit the bottom? If not, and you're in perlite, you'd have to water like 8 times a day to show overwatering.

I'm going to say root issues....the clue is the preponderance of green algae on top and the weak CFL lighting. I'd water with an H202 solution a couple times, and add Hygrowzyme to your regular watering.

 

[Che Bubblez]

Yea I'm buckling up for this ride..lol and yes they look pretty overwatered they are definitly stunted look as tho they have only 2 sets of leaves at day 17 they should be flourishing with fan leaves by this point.. well in DWC they do...But the brown spots are not good Ive never experienced it.. and as Doc said it may be a root issue so get ya some hygrozyme its awesome shit worth the elevated price tag to me.. Im using it in my dwc grow linked in the siggy strong healthy plants grow big healthy budz..

Im planning to start flower this weekend they are like day 50 veg currently..

 

[twoshoes]

Thanks for the advice guys I'm going to follow the good Doctor's advice here. I'll give my hydro shop a call tomorrow and see if they carry the hygrozyme. I should be able to get h2o2 from the drug store at 3% right? I'm guessing it'll be no good if it's already mixed with something like ammonia peroxide?

How much is hygrozyme? I've seen it on ebay for $50 for a litre, will that be any good?

the blue cheese is looking a bit better, new growth looks good and she looks less droopy. the bubba looks great, really spreading her wings in the new bucket. i think I'll start in these next time

I took a couple of happy snaps but I've been enjoying some local stuff and I now I can't find them proper update tomorrow anyway

thanks for reading guys! i feel like i'm asking a lot of questions but hopefully other people can learn along with me!!!

 

[twoshoes]

oh i forgot... about the weak light, I've ordered the led panel, should get here in two weeksish. I was planing on a bit of veg time anyway so i think that will work out thinking of supplementing it with a couple of CFLs, if only to bump up the temp a degree or two since my lights on sits at 71 pretty consistently

 

[twoshoes]

Hey guys, here's the update. Sorry it's delayed, had some guests so it's been tough to spend some quality time with the girls.

Here's they are, root damaged blue cheese on the left, bubba kush on the right. They are 20 and 18 days above ground here:

First, the blue cheese:

This is about 18 hours after watering with 3% H2O2 solution, 30ml into 1 gallon. I could only find "creme peroxide", I wasn't sure if that's what people use around these parts so I only gave it to one plant. Doesn't look like there's been any ill affects, she's shot up nicely, looks much less droopy and has a good bit of new growth. I'll give her this one or twice more before going back to pH'd water, should hopefully have hygrozyme by then.

Here's the bubba kush. She's really taken off since getting transplanted, I'm going to water her with the H2O2 solution next time, of only to deal with the algae you can see on the perlite.

Really happy with this plant, she is a bit stunted under my CFLs but I'm happy to take things slow.

Thanks for reading guys!

 

[Goldengoose7]

If I may jump in here?

You mentioned transplanting? Did you transplant them into larger pots, say 5 gallon or larger?

Drooping plants that start to take on the appearance of "little palm trees" is a sure sign of the roots being ROOT BOUND! Their main roots are wrapped around the bottom of the pot, and they will continue to droop and look under watered until they get put onto something larger. Oh... And DON'T keep that water in the bottom of the tray you have the pots in! That can interfere with drainage and also cause root rot and other problems! You want the roots to go through periods that they are drier and get more air. (in an adequately sized pot of course!) I actually keep kitchen sponges in any of my indoor pot trays to soak up drained off water. If you need to add humidity to the room, do it in something that is not connected to your plants!

The problems I have seen here all stem from root issues, likely caused by 1) That water in the tray 2) Pots too small for plant's development stage 3) Too much water trying to compensate for 1 and 2.

I raised a really beautiful Blue Cheese plant during my last indoor only grow and got great buds out of it! It remained in a 5 gallon pot its entire life and continues to survive after harvest. Slowly reviving back to veg outside as we speak. That process takes forever though!

During its entire life before harvest, the plant was noticeably smaller in stature than the other plants I had grown along with it, by about 10 inches or so. What it lacked in height, it more than made up for in buds!

Back to pot size... I have learned over time that the sooner you can get the plants into 5 gallon pots or larger the better off they will be through their lives.

I've been gardening for over 30 years, and raising Cannabis for my own personal medical use for the last 6. Cannabis is a very tolerant plant, but you definitely need to abide by some common gardening practices in order to succeed. Your light issues are really not the major cause for your current difficulties, but you can never have enough light when growing indoors, so it is good that you are addressing that too, especially when you want to flower these plants!

Good luck and hope you get some nice dense buds out of your grow!

 

[twoshoes]

hey goldengoose, thanks for stopping by, and for the kind words!

I transplanted from tiny little peat pots into little hempy buckets about 10 days ago, so I'm not sure that she's root bound, esp. since the bubba kush was smaller before transplant but now much bigger, and she isn't showing any of these signs

I would have put them in bigger pots but I don't have a lot of head room where they are, my plan is to transplant into 3 gal buckets in a week or two, when I get my cabinet sorted

as for water in the tray, it should be fine. hempy buckets are a bit different than normal pots, there's only one hole for drainage, two inches from the bottom. there's a great thread on hempy here: [thread=121141]A Guide To Hempy (Just put a hole in the bucket)[/thread]

 

[Goldengoose7]

No problem.

It seems rather common with Cannbis cultivation that people often jump to far more exotic causes for simple gardening issues like this and fail to address what is a very simple and common problem. Your POT IS TOO SMALL.

Root bound plants look exactly like your photos, thats why I suggested it. All the watering in the world won't help solve the problem because most of the main roots are all around the edges of the inside bottom of the pot, so unless the pot is fully submerged into a larger container filled with water, they won't get enough and will droop like that. (Not a recommened way to solve root binding by the way. Only transplanting to a larger pot will truly solve the problem)

I'm sure when the times comes to put them into larger pots, you will see the exact root behavior I am talking about, with the possible addition of some root rot caused by keeping that standing water in the tray under the pot. Hopefully, they don't get permanently stunted by then.

Eventually, the plant accepts its fate and gives up trying to expand beyond the confines of its existing pot, and will adapt. The droop will reduce, but the plant will never grow like it once did, or could have if it had more area to grow into when it wanted to.

P.S. The reason I suggested 5 gallon pots is because I have actually seen some root binding with a few strains in 3 gallon pots.

Cheers.

 

[Ugwad]

Hey Twoshoes, congrats on your first attempt and having the guts to put it out there for everyone to see. I think it's the combo of your low watt lights and low temps that's responsible for the slow growth. I know your new lights are on the way and that will make a huge difference.

While, they say weed grows best at temps in the mid to low 70's, I think you can safely let them get higher. I and others have had good grows with temps in the 90's. My current grow runs 79 to 84 when the lights are on and there's no evidence of any heat issues. With the low watts I think some extra heat would be welcome by your plants.

Good luck!

 

[twoshoes]

thanks again goldengoose I can't do much about pot size until I get my cabinet so the girls will just have to deal with it for a few more days, whether they're root bound or have root damage

I don't think I explained the hempy bucket properly so ill try again - the water in the tray can't get into the pot, since the only hole in the pot is on the side, two inches from the bottom... there's no drainage holes in the bottom or anything like that

I think 3 gal should be big enough for me, people are getting great results in 2 litre soda bottles! ill get the biggest things that will fit in my cabinet so well see

thanks for the advice

 

[twoshoes]

hey Ugwad thanks for visiting! that's good to know about the temps, thanks! I can pretty easily reduce the size it my vent to increase temps, ill give it a go when I'm at the grow again