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Breeding for Beginners - Create Your Very Own Strain!

TheMadDabber

Member of the Month: Dec 2017 - Nug of the Month: June 2018
STS is what all the breeders use. I'm going to go for that next round. I'm just hoping for a nice stud this round.

I'll be stoked with 25x more seeds that expected!:D
 

Weaselcracker

Nug of the Year: 2016 - Member of the Month: Sept 2015, Nov 2016 - Nug of the Month: Oct 2016 - Plant of the Month: May 2016
I’m probably the last person who should be answering that question because I’m pretty hazy on the basics of breeding. What am I doing on this thread I don’t know. But P stands for parental.

‘P generation refers to the parent generation.
F1 stands for the first filial generation that was obtained on cross pollinating the parent plants.
F2 stands for the second filial generation that is obtained by self pollinating the F1 generation plants.’

In the beginning, they started with a bunch of different parents and label them P1, P2, P3, etc. Then they would make various crosses- P1x P5, P1xP2- and whatever other conceivable combination. So that would mean P4 was just one of the original plants. Presumably the best one. Why they would list that on their site I know not.

If someone wants to come along and give a better explanation that would be great :thumb:
 

Weaselcracker

Nug of the Year: 2016 - Member of the Month: Sept 2015, Nov 2016 - Nug of the Month: Oct 2016 - Plant of the Month: May 2016
I guess they had a few worthwhile P’s so are just differentiating - even though only fairly dedicated Ace followers would know or care what they’re talking about.
 

Marzbadrock

Plant of the Month: Sept 2015 - Nug of the Month: Jan 2016, May 2018
Could someone tell me what breedings would be if I took a male and a female, bred them n got seeds. Germinated seeds from that breeding. Selected a female n bred with original father from first breeding (grandfather). Germinated seeds from that breeding now n hopefully find a female n breed back to the original father again (great grandfather).

And would it be the same if I used original female n bred with son, grandson, great grandson ?
 

TheMadDabber

Member of the Month: Dec 2017 - Nug of the Month: June 2018
Could someone tell me what breedings would be if I took a male and a female, bred them n got seeds. Germinated seeds from that breeding. Selected a female n bred with original father from first breeding (grandfather). Germinated seeds from that breeding now n hopefully find a female n breed back to the original father again (great grandfather).

And would it be the same if I used original female n bred with son, grandson, great grandson ?
The technique you are describing is known as back crossing.

So mother + father = f1 (assuming these aren't the same strain your crossing)

The kids (f1s) bred give you F2 then aF3 and so on.

Typically you'll get 4 main one phenotypes from an F1 but F2 and 3 gens often show far more hidden genetics. At this point selecting a desirable plant and back crossing it with its grand parent is one way to begin strain stabilization.

The other is to continue breeding derided traits to an F5 or 6 generation. When they become so inbred there is no deviation or very little.
 

farm420ok

Well-Known Member
back crossing and line breeding, to lock in certain desirable traits. However, this also can and does lock in the undesirable traits as well. This should only be done when you know what you are looking for and exactly what you are doing, unless you just want tons of seeds from a decent plant. This generally gives you a very stable line of genetics, that will grow the same way in the same environment for the most part. The idea behind it is to create a dominate strand that is consistent. Basically, the male you are using this for had best be a bad ass plant or you are wasting your time. In the AG industry, we call this a herd sire. Finding a good one is easy, finding a great one is very difficult. A good male will breed well with a good female, a great male will breed good with anything. Thats the general idea when line breeding or back crossing.
 

Bayou Joe

Member
This Text is not by any means the only breeding path which could be taken but is a good start for the lay persons wishing to have a little play being god/and see if they would like to play mother nature with their Garden.

A person must learn to be a good grower before they can become a good breeder.

Step One: Choose a male plant with desirable characteristics. One good way to choose male plants is to rub the stem with your finger. If the plant smells of resin and is pungent it could be a good plant.

Step Two: One branch of male flowers will supply all the pollen necessary. Strip away the other branches to guard against accidental, random pollination. Isolate the male from females once flowers start to show. Soon pollen sacks will begin to open.

Step Three: When the pollen pods open, place a clean, paper bag over the branch to collect pollen. Secure the bag at the bottom with a piece of string or a wire tie. Keep the bag over the branch for several days to collect pollen.

Step Four: When enough pollen has been collected, shake remaining pollen off into the bag. Remove spent branch and bag. This pollen can be "Dried" and saved in the freezer for several months. Moisture and high temperatures degrade and destroy pollen.

Step five: Ideally, fuzzy white pistils should be ready for fertilization 3 to 4 weeks after the first pistils appear. Cover the selected female branch with the pollen filled bag. Shake the bag.

NOTE: An alternate method is to use a small paint brush to apply pollen from the bag to the pistils if you want only a few seeds.

Step Seven: Leave the bag for two or three days, to ensure fertilization. Be careful not to scatter pollen on adjacent sinsemilla crop when removing the bag.

Step Eight: After fertilization, seeds will be ripe in 3-6 weeks. Harvest seeds when they split open the containing calyx or rattle in the pod.

Seeds are ready to plant immediately, but all may not germinate. Germination percentage increases when seeds are stored in a cool dry place for one or two months.

Many variations of this could be done and like i said i want the lay person to be able to read a basic step by step intro guide so.

Growers can use simple crossing techniques to learn about breeding and work with traits that are fairly easy to change — such as, plant size, fragrance and potency. Even though simple experimentation, it is possible to produce the desirable plants.

To breed a grower must understand the principles of plant reproduction, heredity and environmental stress. By mastering these principles and simple techniques a grower can make crosses to produce new varieties or strains.

Cannabis plants inherit their genetic characteristics from their sets of parents. Natural heredity laws define why offspring inherit different traits from the same parents. These laws assist breeders to forecast the number of offspring that stand to inherit a specific trait. Anybody who is serious about breeding has a good background in the laws of heredity. It's essential.

All plant cells contains chromosomes, microscopic forms inside cells. Genes occur in pairs within these chromosomes. Chromosomes are building blocks of genes and genes determine the characteristics of cannabis. Every cannabis cell contains two genes (one chromosome) for each characteristic. To illustrate, lets look at sex. Each plant has one male gene and one female gene. Cannabis has 10 pairs of chromosomes which makes a total of 20 chromosomes.

Diploid plants have the normal set of chromosomes that occur in pairs within the cells.

Polyploid plants have multiple sets of chromosomes within one cell, instead of having chromosomes in pairs, polyploid plants have chromosomes in groups of three or four.

Tetraploid plants have groups of four chromosomes per cell. Many breeders have experimented with polyploid and tetraploid plants believing they would produce more potent plants. Polyploids can be induced with applications of colchicine. However colchicine is poisonous and polyploid plants are not more THC-potent, nor do they have any other redeeming qualities.

When the male and female germ cells join at fertilization, each adds one gene for each characteristic so that the new seed then has two genes for each attribute. The diverse combinations of each parents' genes determine the traits of the offspring and of future generations.

Inbreeding establishes a pure breed. A pure breed has consistent chromosomes. That is, the genetic makeup of offspring is relatively uniform. This true or pure breed is necessary so common growth characteristics may be established. If the plants are not a pure breed, it will be impossible to predict the outcome of the hybrid plant. After the 4th to 6th generation of inbreeding, negative characteristics, like low potency, legginess and lack of vigor tend to dominate. Inbreeding is necessary to establish a true breed, but has been shied away from after the strain has been established.

Inbreeding establishes a stable reference point or plant to start from. The chosen females are bred back (back crossed) with males of the same strain. This will establish a true breed, plants with the same growth characteristics. These plants, of known ancestry and growth characteristics will be used to breed hybrid plants.

Outbreeding or producing hybrid seed is the practice of crossing two plants from different genetic backgrounds. An F1 (make the 1 in F1 superscript) hybrid is a first generation cross of two true breeding plants. F1 varieties are the most sought after plants available because they grow approximately 25 percent faster and larger than other crosses. This phenomena is known as hybrid vigor.

The offspring of F1 plants are called F2 and the offspring of F2 plants are called F3 etc. The subsequent generations after F1 do not experience hybrid vigor. F1 hybrids from seed companies must be brought back to true bred plants before they serve as consistent breeding stock.

NOTE: Most often grower's do not breed, they cross plants without stabilizing any particular plant, or developing true breeding strains. Once they find a plant they like, they take clones of it and grow it out under lights. Often this is process is confused with breeding. It is much more difficult to select plants, stabilize them into true breeding plants and produce F1 (make the 1 in F1 superscript) hybrids. Often when 10 seeds purchased from a disreputable seed company are planted, the result is 10 plants that all look different, so beware!

Choosing from a large and varied plant stock, is the key to successful breeding. There is no guarantee for a breeder, planting only a few seeds, that they will grow into vigorous plants, even if the seeds are from excellent stock. The best solution is to grow many strains to have many plants to choose from.

You can't tell by looking at a plant the exact genes it contains. For instance, a female could have one gene for short stature and one for medium stature, but only medium stature is evident; by looking at the plant you have no way of knowing about the short stature gene. Yet, the gene for short stature is in the cells of the plant and some of the offspring will inherit it, and pass the gene on to their offspring. If enough plants and offspring are inbred, some offspring will be short. By observing enough offspring, a breeder can discern what genes parents have and how they interact.

Environment and Stress
Always give plants the absolute most stable environment possible. Stable environment allows plants to follow their genetic traits without interference. Stress plants by altering the environment and genetic characteristics are affected. Some likely characteristics of environmental stress include abnormal flowers and flowering traits. Often rookie breeders turn the lights out for a day or two or leave the lights on too long after a consistent 12 hour light/dark period is maintained and plants produce abnormal flowers — female flowers with male parts, a stigma protruding from a male flower or female flowers bearing male anthers.

Sex reversal is often result from stressed plants. Sporadic male flowers on a predominately female plant frequently occur on stressed plants. These sexually confused plants are not natural hermaphrodites. They are stressed plants with intersex tendencies manifested as hermaphrodite or monocious plants. Do not confuse these deviations to be a new variety or a hermaphrodite plant. Such plants are the result of stress and not suitable for breeding stock. Had these plants been grown properly, they would be suitable for selective breeding. Stressed plants with hermaphroditic tendencies are generally less potent and low yielding. A person must learn to be a good grower before they can become a good breeder.

Environmental conditions that provoke sexual deviation include photoperiod fluctuation, marginal light intensity, ultraviolet light, nutrient imbalances, cold temperatures, abscisic acid, giberillic acid, old age and mutilation. The world's top cannabis breeders are good growers and prefer to use naturally occurring genetic traits of plants rather than inducing environmental stimulus to achieve desired results. Altering a plants sex with environmental characteristics could cause the genetic deviation to be picked up by subsequent generations.

Favorable characteristics most breeders look for include general vigor, potency, resin content, flower to leaf ratio, large floral clusters, quality of high — long lasting, soaring, sedative — therapeutic effects, taste and aroma, short stature, early maturation, and mold and mite resistance.

Usually varieties that perform well under artificial lights will also perform well outside or in a glass house under natural sunlight. The converse does not hold true nearly as often. Varieties that perform well outside often prove to be a disappointment when grown under artificial light.
Hi I am new here and new to this my state is just starting so thanks for letting me tag along
 

MrIcculus

Well-Known Member
back crossing and line breeding, to lock in certain desirable traits. However, this also can and does lock in the undesirable traits as well. This should only be done when you know what you are looking for and exactly what you are doing, unless you just want tons of seeds from a decent plant. This generally gives you a very stable line of genetics, that will grow the same way in the same environment for the most part. The idea behind it is to create a dominate strand that is consistent. Basically, the male you are using this for had best be a bad ass plant or you are wasting your time. In the AG industry, we call this a herd sire. Finding a good one is easy, finding a great one is very difficult. A good male will breed well with a good female, a great male will breed good with anything. Thats the general idea when line breeding or back crossing.
Thank you for sharing your experience @farm420ok :thumb:
 

Bilbobudkin420

Well-Known Member
Pile of dank buds and no seeds! Pretty frustrating honestly. I'm running refs this round so I know I'll be good. But I'll be buying some ingredients for STS here soon. Next round I want some F1 fems.... I want em realllll bad!
Yooo @TheMadDabber . I know this was a while ago but from the positioning i have a theory that maybe that male flower didn't get enough light to fully develop viable pollen? Again just a theory but if any1 else seems to have had the same problem and the flower site was on a low hanging branch away from direct light there could be a correlation. Only one way to find out though
 
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Oldgrowth

Well-Known Member
back crossing and line breeding, to lock in certain desirable traits. However, this also can and does lock in the undesirable traits as well. This should only be done when you know what you are looking for and exactly what you are doing, unless you just want tons of seeds from a decent plant. This generally gives you a very stable line of genetics, that will grow the same way in the same environment for the most part. The idea behind it is to create a dominate strand that is consistent. Basically, the male you are using this for had best be a bad ass plant or you are wasting your time. In the AG industry, we call this a herd sire. Finding a good one is easy, finding a great one is very difficult. A good male will breed well with a good female, a great male will breed good with anything. Thats the general idea when line breeding or back crossing.
Just because you can do something does not mean you can do it well. I leave the breeding to you experts, plant breeding of course.
 

TheMadDabber

Member of the Month: Dec 2017 - Nug of the Month: June 2018
Yooo @TheMadDabber . I know this was a while ago but from the positioning i have a theory that maybe that male flower didn't get enough light to fully develop viable pollen? Again just a theory but if any1 else seems to have had the same problem and the flower site was on a low hanging branch away from direct light there could be a correlation. Only one way to find out though
Totally could be the case bilbo! I think it was my spray. STS is the clear choice for effectiveness. Well really the best option is the natural way... real males lol. That how I did it this round.

And oldgrowth I do not disagree with that at all. But the idea that one may strike gold is too good to pass up. A few seeds in my crop is the least of my worries honestly
 

Bilbobudkin420

Well-Known Member
Totally could be the case bilbo! I think it was my spray. STS is the clear choice for effectiveness. Well really the best option is the natural way... real males lol. That how I did it this round.

And oldgrowth I do not disagree with that at all. But the idea that one may strike gold is too good to pass up. A few seeds in my crop is the least of my worries honestly
Yer i agree natural would be best. But certain companies release certain genetics and strains in female only.... clearly the reason we are talking about it though anyway lol
 
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