Building A Better Soil: Demonstrations & Discussions Of Organic Soil Recipes

[Tony Urban]

I would have a quick look at my journal. I used Clackamus Coots soil mix but tweaked for what I could get my hands on. I documented that. On page 1 of my signature link journal is a hyperlink to my introduction thread. My current grow is using that soil. The plants are looking good and all I do is water, with the odd diluted compost tea to feed the soil, I am impressed with LOS so far.

“4.5 out of 5 stars. Will grow again.”


I only mention this because I stayed pretty close to the recipe with minor tweaks and the results I have had with it.

 

[TheFertilizer]

Those "skip" things list is so you don't have grow issues. Get a soil test if you don't want to use a tested recipe. The thing here is with the Coots mix we use, it's been tested by a bunch of different labs and soil ran with plants to back up the tests. Lots of different growers...

The "recipe" is there for folks that don't want to get a soil test.

Don't guess, soil test. Just sayin... we are growing in containers. That "skip" list can work outdoors .. they are too much in containers with limited soil and soil organic matter.

Hey Bob have you heard much about the Soil Savvy Test kit? Apparently it has some kind of synthetic simulated root you put dirt into the container with, then you ship that off to the company and they test the available nutrients. It includes a lot more than the Mechlich III tests from the extension-services labs, but it's $30.

 

[bobrown14]

I would have a quick look at my journal. I used Clackamus Coots soil mix but tweaked for what I could get my hands on. I documented that. On page 1 of my signature link journal is a hyperlink to my introduction thread. My current grow is using that soil. The plants are looking good and all I do is water, with the odd diluted compost tea to feed the soil, I am impressed with LOS so far.

"4.5 out of 5 stars. Will grow again."


I only mention this because I stayed pretty close to the recipe with minor tweaks and the results I have had with it.

Looks like you sub'd Alfalfa meal for Karanja cake.. and used a nice mix of rock dusts.. very very impressive.

I think you will get the other +.5 on the 2nd 3rd & 4th rounds in that soil. The mix feels so light you'd think nothing would grow in it, until they do!

Have you tried little malted barley tea yet?

Hey Bob have you heard much about the Soil Savvy Test kit? ..... but it's $30.

I didn't until you pointed me to it! I was emailing Tad from KIS little while ago trying to pick his brain about why Oregon and Washington States wont soil test anymore. Looks like he took the ball and ran with it .. score! For $30 its better than $50 for the Logan Labs test... I'll take my county extension test which is a Mechlich III test plus SOM added for $12 + $1 for ship.

It's an excellent option for folks that don't have the county extension test available. Not sure about the "synthetic root" thing.. I'm sure it works, just not a big fan of anything that's "synthetic" by name. Maybe they should have labeled it "super root" or something more pleasing to the wallet. But yeah great ... thinking about getting a kit and do a back to back test with what I'm running now.

Testing the way Chad explains on the video, I could drop a few hundred $$ easily.

Also good to hear someone say we cant really trouble shoot without a soil test. Just guessing at best without the test. But once issues show its not the time to soil test really, kinda late to the party. But I like what Tad said about testing the soil when we are hitting a home run, so that we can try and get our next batch as close as we can to the mix that worked great.

How fast turnaround did you get the VA Tech soil test??

 

[Tony Urban]

I have tried making sprouted seed teas but havent made malted barley tea. With a brewery in town it might be easier than I expect

 

[TheFertilizer]

Looks like you sub'd Alfalfa meal for Karanja cake.. and used a nice mix of rock dusts.. very very impressive.

I think you will get the other +.5 on the 2nd 3rd & 4th rounds in that soil. The mix feels so light you'd think nothing would grow in it, until they do!

Have you tried little malted barley tea yet?



I didn't until you pointed me to it! I was emailing Tad from KIS little while ago trying to pick his brain about why Oregon and Washington States wont soil test anymore. Looks like he took the ball and ran with it .. score! For $30 its better than $50 for the Logan Labs test... I'll take my county extension test which is a Mechlich III test plus SOM added for $12 + $1 for ship.

It's an excellent option for folks that don't have the county extension test available. Not sure about the "synthetic root" thing.. I'm sure it works, just not a big fan of anything that's "synthetic" by name. Maybe they should have labeled it "super root" or something more pleasing to the wallet. But yeah great ... thinking about getting a kit and do a back to back test with what I'm running now.

Testing the way Chad explains on the video, I could drop a few hundred $$ easily.

Also good to hear someone say we cant really trouble shoot without a soil test. Just guessing at best without the test. But once issues show its not the time to soil test really, kinda late to the party. But I like what Tad said about testing the soil when we are hitting a home run, so that we can try and get our next batch as close as we can to the mix that worked great.

How fast turnaround did you get the VA Tech soil test??

It was a pretty fast turnaround once they got it, about 3 days.

 

[Guy Cavallero]

I have tried making sprouted seed teas but havent made malted barley tea. With a brewery in town it might be easier than I expect

So this will sound like a newb question, but why? I've got a small batch brewery around the corner, shud I be utilizing something from them?

Also, you guys are feeling some test results that you have obviously got from a lab close to where you live. How would I go about getting a test done like that..... what kind of a test am I looking for if I can find somebody to do an analysis? I wonder if black swallow living soils in Brantford would be able to do the test?

 

[TheFertilizer]

So this will sound like a newb question, but why? I've got a small batch brewery around the corner, shud I be utilizing something from them?

Also, you guys are feeling some test results that you have obviously got from a lab close to where you live. How would I go about getting a test done like that..... what kind of a test am I looking for if I can find somebody to do an analysis? I wonder if black swallow living soils in Brantford would be able to do the test?

I don't know an awful lot about sprouted-seed teas, but the gist of it I understand, is that they provide enzymes you wouldn't ordinarily get.

If you're talking about the soil tests me and Bob are mentioning, they're usually done through what's called a County Extension Service from state-to-state for very little money, though some states are not participating anymore, and you being in Canada I don't believe you can take advantage of them. But something like Logan Labs might take a soil sample test from Canada, and I'm sure you guys have your own agricultural services that could perform them. What you're looking for is generally referred to as a "soil fertility test" and the Mechlich III test is the one we've been posting results of.

Another option, though once again I'm not sure how international shipping may effect it, is this new Soil Savvy test kit Bob and I have been mentioning. That kit comes with a "simulated root" that you put into a sample cup along with your soil, and then you take a prepaid self-posted box and send it back ( so that's where it could get complicated shipping from Canada ). So far I'd say that those tests look even better than the Mechlich III tests because it's providing a "snapshot" of what's available in your soil that instant, as well as offers Nitrogen profiles ( which the mechlich III won't ). I'm not really sure how the Mechlich III differs, except that it seems to test what is in your soil whether or not it is biologically available to the plant or not, whereas the Soil Savvy kit's "simulated root" uptakes what is available to a plant.

 

[Guy Cavallero]

Ok cool. I'll look up the soil Savvy kit online and see what the deal is......thanks a tonne as always!

 

[brazel]

While you put in a lot effort, it's not needed. Quit thinking npk

 

[brazel]

I got my soil test results back yesterday, it's looking pretty good, but I wish they would have tested the nitrogen level. I'll probably just stick with my main recipe and go lower on the neem seed meal since I have been seeing burnt tips with it.

Nitrogen seriously! No reason to test, it's everywhere! Neem brunt tips! Really... it's not food bro

 

[brazel]

I'm building my soil in the New Year, didn't really realize that some of the amendments that I thought had a particular purpose ( ie Neem meal to aid in insect control) might have an adverse effect on PH etc as they decompose etc. Guess the ratios are super important after all. That being said, I'm having a hell of a time locating sources in Canada for green sand. Can I increase my ratio of kelp meal to the mix to aid in potassium levels? My mix is based loosely on CCs mix, with some additions.

Quit thinking ph, don't use green sand, you don't need more potassium. Decompose is good

 

[GodOfPot]

Hey Guy...Black Swallow doesn't do soil tests....but they do get there's tested, I've had them send me the reports and Bobbrown on here has helped me go over them....but the reports they sent me are from a place called "A & L Labratories Canada Inc."...they're located out in London....I'd assume Black Swallow just sends their samples over there, not sure on pricing though

For malt barley you'll want 2 row organic...I looked around and found a couple places that sell the organic, it's like $2/lb...you'll want it "whole" opposed to milled or flour....store it in the freezer stays fresher(plus is attracts pests like mice etc. when left out), grind it up into a powder right before using it..and yes it's a great source for enzymes

 

[Amy Gardner]

Building a Better Soil - Demonstrations & Discussions of Organic Soil Recipes

For malt barley you'll want 2 row organic...I looked around and found a couple places that sell the organic, it's like $2/lb...you'll want it "whole" opposed to milled or flour....store it in the freezer stays fresher(plus is attracts pests like mice etc. when left out), grind it up into a powder right before using it..and yes it's a great source for enzymes

Hey God (isn't that fun to say?.), I received some malted barley as a freebie from an organic supplier here when I ordered some mineral amendments (in Aus, they do the coots mix and other goodies). Because I'm outdoor and pretty bushy I didn't want it in my soil mix precisely b cause of that pest/rodent thing you mentioned. I've been wondering what to do with it... Do you, or anybody, have any suggestions about how I use it for enzymes? I'm very new to this kind of gardening so haven't made many teas except a seaweed brew that I'm using already, and a nettle tea currently brewing. Plus I have an LAB on the go. I'm not equipped to do any aerated teas.

This thread has been really helpful for me to date. I'll likely contribute at some point when my gardening set up is a bit more settled and I have some idea about how my soils are playing out. At the moment I have a bit of "licorice allsorts" going on in terms of my approach - my plants are still alive and kickin' so no major probs so far!

Thanks for any advice about the malted barley...

.

 

[GodOfPot]

Is your malted barley already ground up or whole?

You want the un-milled or "whole" version...basically you just grind it(in a coffee grinder or something) until it's a fine powder, then do 1oz/3gal of water and feed with that about once a month...to amend your soil with it I think it's 1/2 cup - 1 cup per cu.ft...You don't wanna buy it powdered if you can avoid that...more enzymes for you if you grind it up yourself

 

[kelticBlue]

My thoughts exactly. This isn't one of those.... "other forums ". disagreements are fine if you are respectful and can back your claims with science and experimental proof. None of which you supplied I think you logged into the wrong forum...

looks like a hacked account, the join date is from 2014, no way that attitude has stayed on 420mag for that long, or just a troll.
a strange world we live in.

On the building soil, I just ordered more re amendment.

Neem Cake

Kelp Meal

Crab Meal

Fish Meal

Gypsum

ya know the usual, gonna try to take my soil through the end of the next year.
I am working with some problems on my latest sprout, the stem narrows at just below soil level , I hope the soil lasts and I hope it isnt my water reservoir in my sub irrigated planter. Like i say no fun unless there is solutions to problems. For now I have an airstone in the res. to combat any anaerobic possibilities (i always forget that word anaerobic, i think)
The sprout looks good other than the wonky stem.
From this morning, 2 weeks old, in an earthbox jr:

.

 

[Amy Gardner]

Is your malted barley already ground up or whole?

You want the un-milled or "whole" version...basically you just grind it(in a coffee grinder or something) until it's a fine powder, then do 1oz/3gal of water and feed with that about once a month...to amend your soil with it I think it's 1/2 cup - 1 cup per cu.ft...You don't wanna buy it powdered if you can avoid that...more enzymes for you if you grind it up yourself

Thanks God .

Yes it's whole. That sounds simple enough ... Can I mix it with another feeding? E.g., add it to a nettle or seaweed tea that will have a small dose of Lactobacillus in it as well?

.

 

[GodOfPot]

I don't see why you wouldn't be able too mix it...and no problem, just passing info along...just got taught about malted barley recently from a member here...glad to share the info

 

[bobrown14]

I have tried making sprouted seed teas but havent made malted barley tea. With a brewery in town it might be easier than I expect

You'll be thanking me after you try it. I've been adding it to my amendments at up-pot and mix in with my initial soil mix as well. Will get you a shorter flower cycle - just for that its worth it but of course other benefits as well. Only need a little bit 1oz ground to a powder add to a few gallons of water and water in.

Results are amazing... try it on a plant that just went into flower .... you will see the difference the next day.

So this will sound like a newb question, but why? I've got a small batch brewery around the corner, shud I be utilizing something from them?

Here's an interview with Coots.. he started the malted barley thing a few years ago while we were working with his soil recipe:

Malted Barley Explained By Clackamas Coot | THCFarmer Community

Hey Guy.. soil testing it's a thing and has been around since at least the 1930s in the States. You could send your sample to Va Tech soil testing lab - they will e-mail you your results cost about $16 + you ship cost to send a cup of soil in the mail.

I don't know where to get soil testing in Canada... they do it for sure there's a lot of farmers in Canada with the same soil we have... soil testing is critical for farmers growing feed for animals... without the correct minerals, animals get sick and die... dairy cows are pretty pricey and need to be fed grass all year long. A soil test is cheaper than a Vet visit... and if you need a Vet its too late....

 

[Amy Gardner]

You'll be thanking me after you try it. I've been adding it to my amendments at up-pot and mix in with my initial soil mix as well. Will get you a shorter flower cycle - just for that its worth it but of course other benefits as well. Only need a little bit 1oz ground to a powder add to a few gallons of water and water in.

Results are amazing... try it on a plant that just went into flower .... you will see the difference the next day.




Here's an interview with Coots.. he started the malted barley thing a few years ago while we were working with his soil recipe:

Malted Barley Explained By Clackamas Coot | THCFarmer Community

Thanks for this Bb - I plan to check it out later today, but in the meantime, a question for you: does what you say above suggest that one needn't or shouldn't use it during veg?

Plus - I was here to pop you another question about comfrey. I'm aware that a comfrey tea is a great thing to apply when flowers have set, and I plan to do that, I'm also informed (thanks SweetSue for both tips!) that I can just spread the leaves around the ground under my plants. My question is, again, can I do this during veg as well? And maybe hold off on the comfrey tea until after bud-set. FYI I'm outdoor, first time growing more than one pant and aiming for some kind of living soil, hopefully high brix hybrid kind of thing. I'm experimenting and trying to learn as much as possible. I'm new to it - but have read a shed load of info (journals as well as reference material - and this thread where I lurk, a lot). I'm already using stinging nettle tea and seaweed tea, both home made, for watering and foliar feeding the soil .. (with lacto added). So I'm seeking to be building my soil over time knowing that next year will be super better and this year (current grow) I'm sure I'll get some great buds as well!

Thanks - and if these questions are too off topic, I'll take them to your journal. But they seem relevant to a soil building thread... and Sue suggested I seek you out, and you're here a lot so...

.

 

[bobrown14]

While you put in a lot effort, it's not needed. Quit thinking npk

Nitrogen seriously! No reason to test, it's everywhere! Neem brunt tips! Really... it's not food bro

Actually its SILICA that's everywhere - pretty 100% on that one.

And....Not sure if serious.

"Neem brunt tips" FTW! I gotta google that one. BRB.....