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Cannabis Oil Dosing Tutorial: Tacking Method

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SweetSue

Member of the Year: 2015 & 2016 - Member of the Month: Mar 2015, Sept 2016 - Nug of the Month: Oct 2017 - Creme de la Creme Photos: Dec 2016
Thank you, SweetSue, for responding to me. I'm so sorry Motoco passed away. That is so sad. I am also sorry for your husband passing away. Cancer sucks on every level. In regard to your question and recommendation, I haven't used anything other than one oil spray for my tongue, and it burned horribly and caused me more pain. I want to try something and am willing to give things a try for sure. My main concern is to avoid something with THC in it due to my spouse being in the military. If I pass the THC on by kissing and a random drug test picks up any level of it... their goes our retirement. CBD will not ever raise a flag in the drug testing, plus I don't want to be high at all. The one dispensary I tried is totally ignorant...as they sold me the alcohol-based spray. So any advice you have, I'm willing to take into consideration and try. I look forward to hearing your thoughts. BMS is super painful and I'd love to find some answer vs pharmaceuticals of western medicine. I'd love to think cannibus can somehow heal what has gone wrong in my nerves... thinking positive.

Best, Mona
Good to hear from you Mona. I was concerned we'd neglected you too long. :5:

Let's start with some basic biology. There is no way for you to pass THC to your husband through any contact. We even had some members a while back use infused topicals and then get drug tested to assure everyone that topicals don't show up on blood tests. I understand the trepidation, but it's unfounded, and continuing to believe in this will only keep you from exploring the regimen that can do more than cover symptoms. I'm assuming your intent is to induce natural healing? At the very least to get rid of the incessant pain. This will likely take THC.

For everything that CBD will do to work on reducing inflammatory response, it can't touch what THC does for pain. You can dose THC in a way that euphoria doesn't become a factor beyond a sense of wellbeing. For a system so deficient as to express BMS the doses would probably do best as suppositories, which would allow you to get larger cannabinoid loads without stressing the system.

So my first questions are concerning your access. What do you have available, and what access can be created, if those supplies aren't enough for the task at hand? If it were me, I'd be looking to get the CBD levels up around 200 mg a day, split between four doses. If that were supplemented with small doses of THC to the tune of no more than 50 mg a day that would give you a 4:1 ratio in favor of CBD, which would counter any euphoria the THC might offer, if you take the meds orally. At 4:1 or 5:1 you don't feel the effects of THC at all, in most cases. There are a number of chemovars on the market now that will give you that ratio naturally, or it can be formulated by combining oils.

Chronic pain is best managed with a balanced, equal ratio of the major cannabinoids, but then you'll be dealing with some euphoria, which can be massive with the right chemovar. You can use that to great effect in suppositories, but I'd caution it through the gut in your case. Are you open to using suppositories? It wouldn't be a forever thing, just until you had some relief, which would denote the ECS taking charge of the situation again. The BioBombs can be used for this purpose, making the entire experience much easier to live with. We've gone out of our way here to make this an attractive treatment method. The benefits make it the preferred method of administration in extreme cases. You may qualify for that.

If not suppositories, then BioBombs on a regular schedule would be my next recommendation. The 4 doses a day help create a level Endocannabinoid tone, with a steady supply of fresh cannabinoids coming in on a regular schedule. This is how you get past simply treating symptoms and make the step to real relief, and anticipated healing.

Now you get my talk on the mind/body connection. :4: Your ECS is directly linked to the limbic system, which creates the chemical cascades that generate your personality. Those thoughts you think create emotions, and those feelings are what drives the response of your ECS, the dynamic healing system you were born with. It's job is to balance your central nervous system with your immune system. Much of the way we heal is tied to the way we think, and knowing this I encourage you to create the feeling of wholeness.

Find the memory of that time when you weren't living with this pain. Do your best to recreate the emotional feeling of that healthy being and pull up that emotional response every time you think of the challenge you're dealing with, and with every dose of cannabis you take live that emotion, if only for a brief moment.

You've spent too many years identifying with this disease. Change the mental script to the best of your ability. Your ECS can't distinguish between reality and what you tell it. It'll believe what you tell it every time. What I'm asking you to do is to begin telling your body that it's healed, and this is the way that feels. You're not lying to your body by doing this. The ultimate goal of the cannabinoid therapy is a balanced ECS, and that's your expectation. You're simply allowing yourself to feel it now, to the benefit of your ECS. In general terms you're creating a map for your ECS to follow, one that has healing at the end. I realize how unorthodox this sounds, but what do you have to lose by building a healthier conversation with your ECS? Humor me. :love:

My last thoughts for right now: if you're really adverse to using THC I recommend you find a way to begin consuming cannabis raw. Juicing is the preferred option. No THC to deal with, and now that they're beginning to actually study cannabis the news about THCa is more than exciting. Juicing, if it's an option for you, may be your ultimate solution. I don't know what it will do for pain, that's the job of THC, but I know it'll get the body healing and eventually your BMS will be ancient history.

Consider that blissful thought for a moment, your BMS ancient history.......... :36:

Eventually that's our intent anyway. One way or another we'll find your relief. I'm nothing if not relentless. You will find relief, if I have anything to do with it. :laugh2:
 

SweetSue

Member of the Year: 2015 & 2016 - Member of the Month: Mar 2015, Sept 2016 - Nug of the Month: Oct 2017 - Creme de la Creme Photos: Dec 2016
can oil be dripped on weak buds to increase the medicinal effect?
Yes indeed, dripping CCO on buds will greatly potentiate them. Infused oils would just make a mess. :laugh2:

By weak buds I assume you mean low in THC values? Are you talking about combusting or vaporizing MrCowbell??? Vaporizing would be preferred, but the oil on the buds would muck up a flower vape, I'd think. Have you considered the option of taking the weak buds and infusing them with some olive oil for medicinal or coconut oil for a faster onset and add some liquid sunflower lecithin to the strained oil? This would potentiate the buds.

What medicinal use would the buds be intended for?
 
Good to hear from you Mona. I was concerned we'd neglected you too long. :5:

Let's start with some basic biology. There is no way for you to pass THC to your husband through any contact. We even had some members a while back use infused topicals and then get drug tested to assure everyone that topicals don't show up on blood tests. I understand the trepidation, but it's unfounded, and continuing to believe in this will only keep you from exploring the regimen that can do more than cover symptoms. I'm assuming your intent is to induce natural healing? At the very least to get rid of the incessant pain. This will likely take THC.

For everything that CBD will do to work on reducing inflammatory response, it can't touch what THC does for pain. You can dose THC in a way that euphoria doesn't become a factor beyond a sense of wellbeing. For a system so deficient as to express BMS the doses would probably do best as suppositories, which would allow you to get larger cannabinoid loads without stressing the system.

So my first questions are concerning your access. What do you have available, and what access can be created, if those supplies aren't enough for the task at hand? If it were me, I'd be looking to get the CBD levels up around 200 mg a day, split between four doses. If that were supplemented with small doses of THC to the tune of no more than 50 mg a day that would give you a 4:1 ratio in favor of CBD, which would counter any euphoria the THC might offer, if you take the meds orally. At 4:1 or 5:1 you don't feel the effects of THC at all, in most cases. There are a number of chemovars on the market now that will give you that ratio naturally, or it can be formulated by combining oils.

Chronic pain is best managed with a balanced, equal ratio of the major cannabinoids, but then you'll be dealing with some euphoria, which can be massive with the right chemovar. You can use that to great effect in suppositories, but I'd caution it through the gut in your case. Are you open to using suppositories? It wouldn't be a forever thing, just until you had some relief, which would denote the ECS taking charge of the situation again. The BioBombs can be used for this purpose, making the entire experience much easier to live with. We've gone out of our way here to make this an attractive treatment method. The benefits make it the preferred method of administration in extreme cases. You may qualify for that.

If not suppositories, then BioBombs on a regular schedule would be my next recommendation. The 4 doses a day help create a level Endocannabinoid tone, with a steady supply of fresh cannabinoids coming in on a regular schedule. This is how you get past simply treating symptoms and make the step to real relief, and anticipated healing.

Now you get my talk on the mind/body connection. :4: Your ECS is directly linked to the limbic system, which creates the chemical cascades that generate your personality. Those thoughts you think create emotions, and those feelings are what drives the response of your ECS, the dynamic healing system you were born with. It's job is to balance your central nervous system with your immune system. Much of the way we heal is tied to the way we think, and knowing this I encourage you to create the feeling of wholeness.

Find the memory of that time when you weren't living with this pain. Do your best to recreate the emotional feeling of that healthy being and pull up that emotional response every time you think of the challenge you're dealing with, and with every dose of cannabis you take live that emotion, if only for a brief moment.

You've spent too many years identifying with this disease. Change the mental script to the best of your ability. Your ECS can't distinguish between reality and what you tell it. It'll believe what you tell it every time. What I'm asking you to do is to begin telling your body that it's healed, and this is the way that feels. You're not lying to your body by doing this. The ultimate goal of the cannabinoid therapy is a balanced ECS, and that's your expectation. You're simply allowing yourself to feel it now, to the benefit of your ECS. In general terms you're creating a map for your ECS to follow, one that has healing at the end. I realize how unorthodox this sounds, but what do you have to lose by building a healthier conversation with your ECS? Humor me. :love:

My last thoughts for right now: if you're really adverse to using THC I recommend you find a way to begin consuming cannabis raw. Juicing is the preferred option. No THC to deal with, and now that they're beginning to actually study cannabis the news about THCa is more than exciting. Juicing, if it's an option for you, may be your ultimate solution. I don't know what it will do for pain, that's the job of THC, but I know it'll get the body healing and eventually your BMS will be ancient history.

Consider that blissful thought for a moment, your BMS ancient history.......... :36:

Eventually that's our intent anyway. One way or another we'll find your relief. I'm nothing if not relentless. You will find relief, if I have anything to do with it. :laugh2:
Hey Sweet Sue,

First, my apologies for the late response. When your post came in, we, here in Vegas, were dealing with the shooting massacre. Although I wasn't there, many of those near and dear were and it took me off course. Things are better, but that was why I did not get back to you. I appreciated all you said to me and am grateful. Since your post, I did purchase another CBD oil without alcohol. It doesn't burn my mouth, though I'm not sure if it's helping. I probably don't take as much as needed because of the cost. One small bottle is is $150. I bought some balm with a 50/50 THC mixture for a sore neck. That's been fun to try too but not sure if it does anything. My reason for writing back before investigating your thoughts above is... can you recommend a strain of an edible that has THC even in it that might target the oral issues I have? I'm thinking that if I took it at night that maybe I could get off the gabapentin for neuropathy and maybe the healing powers of cannabis might be better over all. Our dispensaries have so many different types and most people there have no idea what I should buy. If I'm taking it at night, I doubt the THC would have any euphoria effect except sleeping well :) Anyway, again, my apologies for the delay and I appreciate your time and response... especially to positive outlooks. I totally believe in that philosophy! Hugs!
 

Radogast

Grow Journal of the Month: April 2017
Hey Sweet Sue,

First, my apologies for the late response. When your post came in, we, here in Vegas, were dealing with the shooting massacre. Although I wasn't there, many of those near and dear were and it took me off course. Things are better, but that was why I did not get back to you. I appreciated all you said to me and am grateful. Since your post, I did purchase another CBD oil without alcohol. It doesn't burn my mouth, though I'm not sure if it's helping. I probably don't take as much as needed because of the cost. One small bottle is is $150. I bought some balm with a 50/50 THC mixture for a sore neck. That's been fun to try too but not sure if it does anything. My reason for writing back before investigating your thoughts above is... can you recommend a strain of an edible that has THC even in it that might target the oral issues I have? I'm thinking that if I took it at night that maybe I could get off the gabapentin for neuropathy and maybe the healing powers of cannabis might be better over all. Our dispensaries have so many different types and most people there have no idea what I should buy. If I'm taking it at night, I doubt the THC would have any euphoria effect except sleeping well :) Anyway, again, my apologies for the delay and I appreciate your time and response... especially to positive outlooks. I totally believe in that philosophy! Hugs!
With edibles always start small. People who call the emergency room because they think they are dead (it happens) have almost always taken in more THC via edibles than their brain and body are comfortable with. Remember rule #1 of cannabis, you will be OK (You will not die from it. Cannabis doesn't do that.)

For a night time edible, the keyword is indica. Eating a sativa edible at bedtime may cause your brain to reschedule bedtime for 10AM the next day. Choose an indica. Take a small dose the first time. Wait 2-3 hours before deciding to try a second dose, (especially the first time.) Your dispensaries will all tell you this.

I personally do not get 'high' off sativa, but even without the high, the amount of energy in a sativa edible would have me doing book research or designing a new door hanging system until well after the sun came up the next day.
 

SweetSue

Member of the Year: 2015 & 2016 - Member of the Month: Mar 2015, Sept 2016 - Nug of the Month: Oct 2017 - Creme de la Creme Photos: Dec 2016
yes.. Cancer and Lupus..
For cancer and Lupus I would be looking at suppositories. Have you checked out Cajun's cancer regimen thread? That's typically where we chew over appropriate protocols.

If you're interested you can find the thread with this link. A Base Treatment Regimen for Cancer

The first 4-5 pages are chock full of important info, and then I recommend you jump to the current page and engage the crew.
 
Hi C Sprite

I am not sure if you are still active...
I am in SF and wondered what hospital approved the medical card? I am with Kaiser and they will not prescribe it.

I received a kidney transplant 6 months and I also have fibromyalgia. My nephrologist and post transplant team thought CBD edibles and topicals were worth trying to deal with the chronic pain due to fibro. I recently started with cannabis CBD only edibles and was looking into medical CDB oils and topicals for the pain as well as stress. My tacrolimus came back in the 20 range and 2 days later 17 and the only new "drug" is the CBD. Have you heard of any interactions with cannabis CBD and tacro or other immunosuppressant drugs?

I was 100% sensitized with when I received my transplant so I have to be especially careful with immunosuppressants.

Would love to chat with you (or others, esp. anyone with fibro) about your experience post transplant and cannabis.

Thanks in advance.
 

SweetSue

Member of the Year: 2015 & 2016 - Member of the Month: Mar 2015, Sept 2016 - Nug of the Month: Oct 2017 - Creme de la Creme Photos: Dec 2016
Hi C Sprite

I am not sure if you are still active...
I am in SF and wondered what hospital approved the medical card? I am with Kaiser and they will not prescribe it.

I received a kidney transplant 6 months and I also have fibromyalgia. My nephrologist and post transplant team thought CBD edibles and topicals were worth trying to deal with the chronic pain due to fibro. I recently started with cannabis CBD only edibles and was looking into medical CDB oils and topicals for the pain as well as stress. My tacrolimus came back in the 20 range and 2 days later 17 and the only new "drug" is the CBD. Have you heard of any interactions with cannabis CBD and tacro or other immunosuppressant drugs?

I was 100% sensitized with when I received my transplant so I have to be especially careful with immunosuppressants.

Would love to chat with you (or others, esp. anyone with fibro) about your experience post transplant and cannabis.

Thanks in advance.
Good morning to you M Llama. :5: I’m intrigued about the use of CBD-only formulations to manage the pain of fibromyalgia. Would you care to share what doses you’ve found most useful, and for that matter anything specific you’d care to share about the regimen that offers you relief? I’m trying to learn as much as I can from members about what’s really working.

As to your concerns about THC interfering with tacrolimus, it doesn’t appear to be a problem. CBD in higher doses will suppress the enzymes that work the CYP450, whereas tacro is metabolized through Hepatic CYP3A4 and CYP3A5.

Best of luck with the transplant. I don’t know if there’s a lot of chatter on the forum about post-transplant cannabis therapeutics, making you cutting edge. You might consider starting a thread to see if you’ll have others on site who share your challenges and concerns.

And thanks for what you shared already. CBD is still a new universe of healing potential for us. Every little bit of information adds to the growing knowledge base. :4:
 
Hi SweetSue,

I just started researching into CBD. I was looking more for the relaxation effects and pain relief for my fibromyalgia than the high so I focused more on higher levels of CBD products. Here are my findings so far: Dosages should start low and slowly increase after a few weeks until one finds what works best for them - 2.5 - 20 mg for chronic pain. It takes some patience. Regarding CBD...marijuana CBD (from State legal dispensaries) is better than industrial hemp CBD (online and available to anyone). Something about the other cannabinoids in marijuana that makes it more therapeutic. You can find marijuana CBD from 30:1 CBD:THC ratios in tinctures/capsules to 1:1 CBD:THC and CBD only edibles/sublingual tablets. Also, marijuana topicals (balms, massage oils and lotions) are supposed to be great, too, providing more immediate relief. With topicals, I don't think it really matters if higher in THC or more THC than CBD since it does not absorb into the blood stream, both are supposed to be good for pain. Check for brands that include testing results and date of testing for that batch of product. In my opinion, tinctures/capsules are more economical than edibles although the latter are tastier! Check for total mg in a product when price comparing. I am experimenting with Papa and Barkley products. They have pretty high CBD concentration products and a good reputation. For industrial hemp CBD...you need to check where it is from and the company's testing results. I believe Kentucky is one of the top states for industrial hemp. Check out www.projectcbd.org for more info.

I started with marijuana CBD only edibles and sublingual tablets with no THC. A week-10 days after I started them, my labs for my tacrolimus came back high...toxic levels. So I am not sure if I can use CBD or not. According to wikipedia, "Tacrolimus is primarily metabolised by the cytochrome P450 system of liver enzymes, and there are many substances that interact with this system and induce or inhibit the system's metabolic activity." You mentioned CYP3A4, I believe CYP3A4 is part of the CYP450 system. I am not really not well informed in this area. I need to see what my next lab results are and what my doctors say. They originally cleared me to try CBD products so not sure what is happening with my tacro levels. All I know is that I will be really sad if I can't continue to try marijuana CBD edible products for my chronic pain. So far I have found them to be relaxing and calming.

I also found this suggestion online: "If you suspect that you are not metabolizing CBD as expected, ask your doctor to test your cytochrome P450 enzyme system before adjusting your dosage." And not to take CBD 20 mins before your meds. No suggestion how long to wait before taking CBD after your meds.

I have some online info regarding tacrolimus and CBD. So far only one patient with significant drug-drug interaction. Fingers crossed it was just a fluke for me.

Hope this info helps.
 

SweetSue

Member of the Year: 2015 & 2016 - Member of the Month: Mar 2015, Sept 2016 - Nug of the Month: Oct 2017 - Creme de la Creme Photos: Dec 2016
That was very helpful info M Llama. :5:

CBD topicals can be relieving for many people, but just the teeniest bit of THC added will potentiates the CBD, and vice versa. CBD actually absorbs into the skin more efficiently than THC, but THC is a champ at cutting the pain levels. It’s a trial-and-error thing.

I’m glad you have access to quality products. Papa and Barkley is one of the best out there.
 
Thank you! And as suggested I started a thread about post transplant. I believe AngrySue reached out to you as well! Seems like you are the ONE to ask :) I feel very fortunate! Appreciate all the info and advice.