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Cannabis Rezination

StoneOtter

Member of the Month: July 2019, Sept 2020 - Grow Journal of the Month: Nov 2019 - Plant of the Month: April 2020
I think this leaf is telling me that I need quite a bit more Potassium?
Hi MissyE, I think so too. I'm going from pics in our problem solver.

Picture 1 and 2 shows a Potassium deficiency

1134potassium-deficiency1.jpg


1134potassiumdef2.jpg
 

MissyE

Well-Known Member
Hi MissyE, I think so too. I'm going from pics in our problem solver.

Picture 1 and 2 shows a Potassium deficiency

1134potassium-deficiency1.jpg


1134potassiumdef2.jpg
Thanks for the confirmation @StoneOtter ! :thanks: The treated Blueberry's seem to have quit drinking now so I'll try a foliar spray under the canopy only with hopes that I avoid bud rot issues. Other than the deficiency in the leaves, the buds all look great and are "doing their thing."
 

Maritimer

Well-Known Member
Ahoy there @MissyE,
Looking over your post again, and my brain is spinning back into gear. I have been resting on my laurels achieving amazing results. Alas I have also been heavily consuming our medicine and my lab coat has dust on it. Dust.

The fog is lifting and I am happy to report that I am or will soon be ready for duty.

Your methods and ways I would like to more closely examine. The combinations of your knowledge and mine meeting each other is exciting. Why you do this, and why I do that. How you were educated in cannabis botany and research? I am mostly just a data miner taking others work and extrapolating what I need and leaving the rest behind. I caught a big break making friends with a Biology professor from Cornell. He swayed my research attention away from ABA convincing me slowly that Jasmonate is our key player. (I still hold that ABA is the concert director).

We speak the language that few (so far) understand.

Homeostasis returning to the cultivar after MeJA applications is not as big a problem some might think. Also, with our late bloom antics we are not as concerned with foliar discolorations and such like normal gardeners. Our plants will not be entered into beauty contests, as they are not pretty. I grow different flowers that look pretty, like roses. But my cannabis plants flowers win different competitions hands down. Rosin per gram and potency we win.

Welcome aboard Missy :hookah:
 

MissyE

Well-Known Member
Good Evening Cap'n @Maritimer. Not sure where to start, so I'll jump right in. I have a minor in Botany from my undergraduate studies. During that time, I focused on plant propagation (when, why, and how plants propagate and why they prefer non-sexual propagation) and bonsai techniques (root pruning, stem girth, shaping, pruning, training, tricking plants to be). I absolutely love plants and wanted to spend my life studying them but realized I needed a way to make money to get out of poverty. So, I got an accounting degree and became a Tax Attorney instead which is really an hourly wage job data-mining the internet, court cases, and tax code. Now, 30 years later, I've retired from my day job and Husband has built me the most glorious SheShed imaginable and allows me to spend my days playing with my plants. My knowledge is out of date and rusty and I'm slowly dredging it up and having light-bulb moments as I data-mine and explore various concepts/theories. I'm enjoying playing and providing great tasting flower for our family and friends to enjoy. Some girls collect shoes... I find I collect seeds and strains. I have 26 bonsai momma's that I've collected and maintain bc I never know when I or someone close to me may want or need that particular strain. My joy is in constant learning and now, I am enjoying my days constantly learning about these glorious plants. I'm currently setting up a very small micro-size tissue culture lab bc I want to learn how to grow explants and it could allow me to really really really ramp up my strain collection bc of the space efficiency such would provide (*bonus!*). I read someplace that we can breed through tissue culture too. How fun is that!!!

But, the thing that brings me here and to you, is this search for flavor to enhance the smoking experience bc I am a firm believer in whole flower or fresh rosin and also to search for pushing oil production to the outer-limits... to combine maximum flavor with maximum oil to create the best tasting medicine, or just... the best relaxing smoke.

I'm of average intelligence, likely a bit direct and forget my manners (especially when focused), I'm decent at researching, above-average at thinking outside the box, and I excel at my willingness to try. No harm in trying...

You have started me on my research of ABA and I agree it is important but I don't yet understand the various interactions. It seems to play a major role in signaling (which would be the concert director you mention). I need to delve into this and think.

As for my MeJa treated Blueberry girls, they have quit drinking as they seem solely focused on oil production right now. I treated them with MeJa on the 19th, they drank a gallon of nutrient water on the 20th and drank another half gallon on the 21st. Tomorrow will be Day 6 of their self-induced starvation diet and I'm not sure they are going to be ready for a drink yet... maybe... but their leaves are still perky... like wings of an airplane... so I think no water again tomorrow. I did spray the Potassium Sulfate (they seem to have enjoyed that). I'll post pictures in the morning. I'm off to quiet time now.
Here is to you my new friend... :blunt:(I do hope that emoji sends positive vibes and is not of the offensive variety, I mean to send a "hat's off to you" or a "toast to you" sort of thing)
 

StoneOtter

Member of the Month: July 2019, Sept 2020 - Grow Journal of the Month: Nov 2019 - Plant of the Month: April 2020
Oh yes @MissyE ! I'm a lover of the flavors in our plant! After been gifted a jar of meja and waiting for the right time, I believe it's now with an outdoor favorite of mine. Can you show a pic of a plant on spray day so I can see when in development to spray the outdoor one? Timing is something to tweak between indoors and out. Right around today may be start of flower.
 

Maritimer

Well-Known Member
Garden Update;
The Thai is not happy about our drought. Get over it girls. Leaf wilt angles (LWA) running in the mid thirty range so going the full distance looks possible. The aroma from the Thai buds does not remind me of Bangkok, much more pleasant. No I do not plan on dipping the buds in opium and tying them to a stick. But the memories of Thai Stick are dear to my heart. OK I strayed off topic. The wild crew in room a are enjoying life without any training whatsoever thanks to my bad back spells. Anyhow I also threw up a picture of my home made brass stocks so Missy might have a look at the toys I am playing with besides our beloved Jazz.




 

Maritimer

Well-Known Member
Good Evening Cap'n @Maritimer. Not sure where to start, so I'll jump right in. I have a minor in Botany from my undergraduate studies. During that time, I focused on plant propagation (when, why, and how plants propagate and why they prefer non-sexual propagation) and bonsai techniques (root pruning, stem girth, shaping, pruning, training, tricking plants to be). I absolutely love plants and wanted to spend my life studying them but realized I needed a way to make money to get out of poverty. So, I got an accounting degree and became a Tax Attorney instead which is really an hourly wage job data-mining the internet, court cases, and tax code. Now, 30 years later, I've retired from my day job and Husband has built me the most glorious SheShed imaginable and allows me to spend my days playing with my plants. My knowledge is out of date and rusty and I'm slowly dredging it up and having light-bulb moments as I data-mine and explore various concepts/theories. I'm enjoying playing and providing great tasting flower for our family and friends to enjoy. Some girls collect shoes... I find I collect seeds and strains. I have 26 bonsai momma's that I've collected and maintain bc I never know when I or someone close to me may want or need that particular strain. My joy is in constant learning and now, I am enjoying my days constantly learning about these glorious plants. I'm currently setting up a very small micro-size tissue culture lab bc I want to learn how to grow explants and it could allow me to really really really ramp up my strain collection bc of the space efficiency such would provide (*bonus!*). I read someplace that we can breed through tissue culture too. How fun is that!!!

But, the thing that brings me here and to you, is this search for flavor to enhance the smoking experience bc I am a firm believer in whole flower or fresh rosin and also to search for pushing oil production to the outer-limits... to combine maximum flavor with maximum oil to create the best tasting medicine, or just... the best relaxing smoke.

I'm of average intelligence, likely a bit direct and forget my manners (especially when focused), I'm decent at researching, above-average at thinking outside the box, and I excel at my willingness to try. No harm in trying...

You have started me on my research of ABA and I agree it is important but I don't yet understand the various interactions. It seems to play a major role in signaling (which would be the concert director you mention). I need to delve into this and think.

As for my MeJa treated Blueberry girls, they have quit drinking as they seem solely focused on oil production right now. I treated them with MeJa on the 19th, they drank a gallon of nutrient water on the 20th and drank another half gallon on the 21st. Tomorrow will be Day 6 of their self-induced starvation diet and I'm not sure they are going to be ready for a drink yet... maybe... but their leaves are still perky... like wings of an airplane... so I think no water again tomorrow. I did spray the Potassium Sulfate (they seem to have enjoyed that). I'll post pictures in the morning. I'm off to quiet time now.
Here is to you my new friend... :blunt:(I do hope that emoji sends positive vibes and is not of the offensive variety, I mean to send a "hat's off to you" or a "toast to you" sort of thing)
Hi @MissyE,
My background and training was in Avionics (jet electrician) and my only class involving plants was in high school when I was more interested in other things. I am from Illinois and sorta like Abe Lincoln in that I am self educated. I had major surgery that laid me up for a year. I was a research machine 12 hours a day. Was gifted guest membership as a research assistant to a major repository of abstracts and pier reviews. Gold mine!

Using other peoples intelligence as I am not so gifted, I was fairly quickly gaining knowledge that began to fall into place. The experiments and studies soon equated to major success in my labs. My journey is somewhat documented in my first major thread here on 420. The title of the thread is Exceptionally High FECO Yields.

I am very glad to have met only wishing it would have occurred sooner. Welcome aboard mate :hookah:
 

MissyE

Well-Known Member
Oh yes @MissyE ! I'm a lover of the flavors in our plant! After been gifted a jar of meja and waiting for the right time, I believe it's now with an outdoor favorite of mine. Can you show a pic of a plant on spray day so I can see when in development to spray the outdoor one? Timing is something to tweak between indoors and out. Right around today may be start of flower.
Good Morning @StoneOtter, so far, my notes would say timing is not so critical when flowers are setting... there is a good long open window of time when flowers are forming/setting, maybe 14-15 day window when the "stretch" growth phase has ended and the plant is now focusing on flower formation and forming those resin gland structures. That appears to be the perfect time to spray .5 mL of MeJa per gallon of water adding a wetting agent of your choice to the water. I have to shake well and keep shaking throughout the spray process to keep the MeJa suspended and separated. Mine seems to like globbing together as it is hydrophobic, shaking eliminates that issue.

I've not been one to take pictures, I will have to start doing that.
 

MissyE

Well-Known Member
Anyhow I also threw up a picture of my home made brass stocks so Missy might have a look at the toys I am playing with besides our beloved Jazz.
@Maritimer. Thank you for that! Your plants are gorgeous, my buds are always quite small. Tasty but small. I'm so amazed at the large colas others put out. I'll need to figure that out. This brass stocks thing is new to me. I LIKE IT!. I will explore and learn. And Avionics! I salute you. I am not mechanically minded at all. So much to learn here. Trying to write my response here and ADD has kicked in as I'm over reading your FECO journal :)
 

Maritimer

Well-Known Member
Ahoy @MissyE
I am afraid I may have bad news for you. Your MeJA should not require agitation. In my experience the MeJA I buy from PG is sold as JA and had to be turned into an ester. Quite simple actually, just adding a few ml of pure grain alcohol into a syringe did the trick. This converts the Jasmonate (JA) they sold me into Methyl Ethel jasmonate (MeJA).

Perhaps you were unaware of the required dilution?
 
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MissyE

Well-Known Member
Ahoy @MissyE
I am afraid I may have bad news for you. Your MeJA should not require agitation other than a shake or two. In my experience the MeJA I buy from PG had to be turned into an ester. Quite simple actually, just adding a few ml of pure grain alcohol into a syringe did the trick. This converts the Jasmonate (JA) they sold me into Methyl Ethel jasmonate (MeJA).

Perhaps you were unaware of the required dilution?
Interesting. The product receipt from Power Grown says I got "Methyl Dihydrojasmonate" I am certainly not a chemist. Quick research and I found this helpful note on Chemicalforums.com "The biological activity of MeJA (methyl jasmonate) is higher than MDJ (methyl dihydrojasmonate); as well as other jasmonates such as JA (jasmonic acid) and dihydrojasmonic acid. The only company (of which I'm aware) that has carried out considerable research into efficacy of MDJ vs. MeJA and JA as biotic and abiotic stress reducer found MDJ to have lower biological activity than the other two forms, with MeJA being the highest out of all jasmonate forms." And the writer references a review in the Journal of Horticultural Science & Biotechnology, 83(3), pp. 283-304 (2008) Rohwer, C.L. & Erwin, J.E.

Have you seen this Journal article Maritimer? If not, I can get a copy to you as I've found the full article on-line... printing it to read now. It looks useful.

Looks like I got a slightly inferior product than you did. I'm so thankful you noticed I had an issue. I do not see MeJa on the Powergrown current products list... just the MDJ that I got. More the reason to get a Sigma Aldrich account.
 
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MissyE

Well-Known Member
I will add this note about Power Grown. I fully believe I know more about their product than they do. especially how and when to use it. :love:
I think you do too! :love: And now we are discovering there are several different forms of Jasmonates and we need to pay attention to which chemical formulation we are actually getting.
 

Maritimer

Well-Known Member
And the writer references a review in the Journal of Horticultural Science & Biotechnology, 83(3), pp. 283-304 (2008) Rohwer, C.L. & Erwin, J.E.

Have you seen this Journal article Maritimer? If not, I can get a copy to you as I've found the full article on-line... printing it to read now. It looks useful.

Looks like I got a slightly inferior product than you did. I'm so thankful you noticed I had an issue. I do not see Jasmonate on the Powergrown current products list... just the MDJ that I got. More the reason to get a Sigma Aldrich account.
I would love to have a look at the review.
In my FECO journal there are pictures of what I got from PG in a 1 gram vial. In fact the whole MeJA conversion is in there. I am not very good at using our host website. Folks like Shed and StoneOtter can post links back to exact pages.

I promise you, (if you tolerate me long enough) I will have you producing the most powerful of cultivars from any strain that pleases you. Said differently, I guarantee you will be gardening plants that produce more essential oils packed with higher concentrations of both THC and CBD if you follow my simple ways. Then coupled with your proven methods we can surely raise the bar. Imagine regularly producing 15% to 20% and higher rosin/gram concentrations when compared to traditional growing methods. And if you want cola's my friend, we can certainly make that happen.

Please remember me when you get the SA account. We need more JA and some ABA but they wont sell it to a private researcher like myself.

Dang it is great thinking about this stuff again. Nobody was talking on my thread so it went dead. Stone Im thinking we have us a bonafied science officer aboard. We should appoint her commision asap.
 

MissyE

Well-Known Member
Lovely, wonderful, *sigh* with satisfaction.

I would love to have a look at the review.
Can you access this link?


I guarantee you will be gardening plants that produce more essential oils packed with higher concentrations of both THC and CBD if you follow my simple ways. Then coupled with your proven methods we can surely raise the bar. Imagine regularly producing 15% to 20% and higher rosin/gram concentrations when compared to traditional growing methods. And if you want cola's my friend, we can certainly make that happen.
I want it all. Lol :)
Please remember me
:love: Done.

And this thread can't be dead... we are talking about the Holy Grail, the Juice of the Gods. We shall conduct our research and share our results and patents be damned. This is an important tool for every home grower.

I did place my first provisional order tonight with Sigma ordering small quantities of agar and such for my little tissue culture experiment and included MeJa (the real one, lol) and also some Gibberilic acid and ABA. Received an email back that a real person has to review the order to make sure I'm legit. Will report back in if I am. :cool: In the meantime, I am reading through the FECO journal and taking initial notes. We use a similar grow medium but you use a bit more coco than I do. I've got equal parts FFOF, Happy Frog, Tupor Coco, and then small amounts (10% ish) Perlite and worm castings. Also downloaded the 158 page thesis and intend to read that. Game On. :thumb:
 

StoneOtter

Member of the Month: July 2019, Sept 2020 - Grow Journal of the Month: Nov 2019 - Plant of the Month: April 2020
Stone Im thinking we have us a bonafied science officer aboard. We should appoint her commision asap.
Yea,the yea's have it! It's nice to see you here @MissyE ! I've been waiting to grow personal seeds to try this. Not scientific as you two but I can mechanically get it done with your help and am gratefully waiting to start up my grow again in late September after some traveling. The one in the yard now may get a spray if I have enough for it. It's a big outdoor plant.

Maritimer, the jar of Meja you sent me, do I use it full strength or dilute it?
 

Maritimer

Well-Known Member
Yea,the yea's have it! It's nice to see you here @MissyE ! I've been waiting to grow personal seeds to try this. Not scientific as you two but I can mechanically get it done with your help and am gratefully waiting to start up my grow again in late September after some traveling. The one in the yard now may get a spray if I have enough for it. It's a big outdoor plant.

Maritimer, the jar of Meja you sent me, do I use it full strength or dilute it?
Full strength , no dilution, spray in evening before lights out or sunset. We can get more MeJA, so get outside and give that big girl a foliar spray. Don't worry about spraying flowers so much, you are spraying her leaves where her sensitivities (JA pathways) are most prevalent. The flowers are not harmed by the spray but also I do not point at them.

Overspray is a big concern if other plants are near, and also I protect the root zone with a towel or cloth as we are not too sure how the hormone acts down yonder.

StankBerry :love:
 

StoneOtter

Member of the Month: July 2019, Sept 2020 - Grow Journal of the Month: Nov 2019 - Plant of the Month: April 2020
Full strength , no dilution, spray in evening before lights out or sunset. We can get more MeJA, so get outside and give that big girl a foliar spray. Don't worry about spraying flowers so much, you are spraying her leaves where her sensitivities (JA pathways) are most prevalent. The flowers are not harmed by the spray but also I do not point at them.

Overspray is a big concern if other plants are near, and also I protect the root zone with a towel or cloth as we are not too sure how the hormone acts down yonder.

StankBerry :love:
Ooh, I'll have to cover the tomatoes 6 feet away then! I have a concern. Do you think a treatment will change the way she fares the great out of doors?
 

Maritimer

Well-Known Member
Ooh, I'll have to cover the tomatoes 6 feet away then! I have a concern. Do you think a treatment will change the way she fares the great out of doors?
I think she will be one up on any insects and herbivores as this is her natural defense against the critters.
The enhanced pistillate populations will equate to larger florescence clusters (colas) and the trichomes both foliar and floral will be larger and of course more densely populated. Flowering time (active bloom) may often increase as the GRN tries to re-establish homeostasis (hormonal bliss) and this is a big reason to keep MeJA applications down to only one treatment. You will observe increased shade avoidance and the turgid LWA readings will decrease as the leaves are "standing up and praying" as we call it.

My brother I think you will be a very happy camper :love: :hookah:
 
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