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CFL Danger!

HiTech-Hate

New Member
I know this is gonna be a rather ... macabre post for some of you, but having just watched this has made me SO ANGRY, I feel compelled to ... shed some light :p on these claims.

Firstly, the UV. Yes its correct that the initial photons generated are by the excitation of mercury, and have quanta in the UV spectrum (peak 253nM), but the light actually being generated by the lamp is from those photons hitting the phosphorous coating on the lamp (thus exciting the phosphorous atoms, which in turn when returned to ground state emit photons of visible light).

Ok, my point here is two-fold, one is that almost all (99% +) of the UV quanta produced is absorbed by the phosphorus, and will never leave the lamp as a energy quanta in the UV spectrum (or else it wouldn't be a very efficient lamp, would it?) secondly, the UV that does pass through does so through passive diffusion across the glass and through all the energized phosphorous atoms. In doing so, PASSIVELY, it loses almost ALL of its momentum, and can only travel about 20cm before being dispersed by atoms in the air. This news segment neglects to tell you that we are talking about standing within just over 1 foot of the lamp to be exposed to any UV photons. I don't know about you, but I don't sit 1 foot away from the light bulbs in my room (for extended, hundreds of hours, of time)

Also, all of the people they use as examples with rashes had Lupus, one of whose characteristics is extreme photo-sensitivity. I do agree fully that there should probably be more resources available from CFL manufacturers for people with various medical conditions to research, however, people with lupus already know very well the dangers light can pose to them. It was this segment of the clip that particularly angered me, as this new program (as well as all the ppl selling the myriad of filters for their own profit) USED lupus sufferers, for their own benefit (to distribute misinformation/fearmongering or make profit). My prayers go out to everyone suffering from medical conditions causing severe photo-sensitivity, its a very hard thing to live and deal with.

Next, mercury poisoning. CFL lamps contain about 1.5mG of mercury, which for starters is an incredibly small amount, posing no real danger if released (as it would atomize into the air and thus diffuse, remember we're talking 1 milligram .... almost nothing).

Incandescent bulbs may not contain mercury, but they require MUCH more electricity to run. To produce electricity at ANY type of electrical power plant requires the use of mercury (and its subsequent release into the environment), so using a lamp that draws more electricity generates more mercury into the environment. The EPA has concluded that over the 'typical lifespan' of an incandescent bulb about 7mG of mercury is released into the environment from the electricity used to power it, vs. 1mG for a CFL over 8000 hours (+ 1.5mG that ends up in the landfill if you throw away your CFLs). In other words, over 8000 hours of use an incan bulb produces 7mG of mercury, and a CFL 2.5mG ... incandescent bulbs are in fact more poisonous in terms of mercury release. Here's a link to a graph the EPA made explaining what I just said:

File:Mercury emissions by light source EPA 2008.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ok, the EM radiation stuff. It is now known with quite good confidence that electromagnetic radiation poses no risk to humans at all (if any symptoms occur, they are psychosomatic in nature). How can I say this with any confidence? The best example would be the earths magnetic field (if you know anything about electromagnetic radiation you know that when there's a magnetic field, there's a perpendicular electric field, and vice versa. AKA magnetism and electricity are intrinsically linked, I got a little chuckle when the guy was showing how the magnetic field being emitted was 'about the same' as the electric field with his detector ... of course it is, they are both part of the same thing :)). The earth's magnetic field thus also has a perpendicular electric field. This field is is millions of times stronger then any electronic device you use. This is coursing through your body constantly, always. So to claim that being exposed to an electric field that is a small fraction of this would cause any adverse physical effects to you is ... asinine. To TRY and ease the anxiety in society (remember the cell phone/brain tumor myth?), the scientific community has conducted research on the topic now for over 40 years, with rigorous testing methodologies, and EVERY conclusion has been that EM radiation has no adverse physical reaction on human being whatsoever. I think they even mentioned in this clip about how scientists claim there is no risk, that is why, 40 years of research showing unanimously to these scientists that there is no risk.

You are of course free to interpret the info in this news clip, and/or the info i've provided in any way you want. I do want to point out though the guy claiming the significant risks of EM radiation, who then went on to install (presumably very expensive) EM filters all throughout this persons house, and making a tidy profit for himself. There is a LOTTTT of profit to be made in the many gimmick's that companies convince the public they need to be safe/secure, this guy and his filters is one prime example (only reason I would use an EM filter is if the electrical device isn't performing correctly).

The reason the 3 major manufacturers declined to interview is because the questions this news agency asked them (UV generation and EM radiation) are commonly known (to the scientific community and light manufacturer's) to have been debunked several years ago (and in the case of EM radiation several decades ago). In other words they probably realized this news agency was trying to generate fear/ratings from nothing and didn't want any part of it (and kudos to these companies for not participating in this ... farce).

420, the only consequences of exposure of UV light to your plants would be to the plants themselves (and I don't believe there is any evidence that short wavelength UV quanta is harmful to cannabis). Remember you are combusting and inhaling the smoke of the plant, any inherent changes to the plant during its growth are lost when you burn it (and replaced by various polyaromatic hydrocarbons, many of which are clearly harmful carcinogenic ... unless you don't think smoke is bad for you :p)

There is ONE thing in this news article I DO agree with. That is that LED lighting is better. The technology has been around for a while, and we've had quite some time to research the hurdles that have kept them from being used en mass commercially. I think in this case, scientists (more likely the industry actually) have been complacent in doing this research because CFLs required very little research/changes as they come from an already well known technology.

All I ask, even if you hate me for hatin on this news agency is that you do the research on these and all other claims yourself. You'd be amazed at how much more there is to 'the story' when motivation for profit, attention, ratings, etc. are stripped away :)
 

G-Dog

New Member
Some people and some things are more sensitive than others. May as well ban them because one in a billion have a reaction. UV spectrum radiation is everywhere, like oxygen. Both does cause a reaction to everything, more some than others.
 

LiftedLion

New Member
The moment I saw this I knew I had to let everyone using these lights know what I had found. I want everyone who sees this to come up with their own opinion on to what they should do regarding this issue. The thing that annoys me the most is that they are going to basically make it almost mandatory to buy these lights in 2012 with very little alternative available easily. I do know for sure that I will be using LED's for all my grows and of course LED lighting can be a bit pricey but IMO its pretty worth it and they look nice :slide:. But I highly recommend that everyone see this and create your own opinion and as Hi-Tech Hate said do your own research since it is clear that they left some things out in the show that need to be addressed. I guarantee that you will find more info that way then just by watching this. 420 I thought the same thing as for what the electro field does to the plants I would love to see a study on how they react differently to different lights I think that would be interesting. As always stay high and safe!

1 Love, Liftd
 

Keith Lake

Human Resources
420 Staff
Generally, we're heading toward a world where they'll have us all walking around wrapped in bubblewrap. Reporters know they get more viewership when they scare monger.

I agree with almost everything posted by Mr HiTech-Hate, but am not sure I'm on the same page with his statement. Below, I've posted the EPA's guide to CFL cleanup should a bulb be broken. It's almost comical ;)

Next, mercury poisoning. CFL lamps contain about 1.5mG of mercury, which for starters is an incredibly small amount, posing no real danger if released (as it would atomize into the air and thus diffuse, remember we're talking 1 milligram .... almost nothing).






What-to-Do-if-a-Compact-Fluorescent-Light-(CFL)-Bulb-or--
Fluorescent-Tube-Light-Bulb-Breaks-in-Your-Home
-
-
Fluorescent-light-bulbs-contain-a-small-amount-of-mercury-sealed-within-the-glass-tubing.-When-a-fluorescent-
bulb-breaks-in-your-home,-some-of-this-mercury-is-released-as-mercury-vapor.--The-broken-bulb-can-continue-to-
release-mercury-vapor-until-it-is-cleaned-up-and-removed-from-the-residence.---
-
To-minimize-exposure-to-mercury-vapor,-EPA-recommends-that-residents-follow-the-cleanup-and-disposal-steps-
described-below.--This-cleanup-guidance-represents-the-minimum-actions-recommended-to-clean-up-a-broken-
CFL,-and-will-be-updated-as-EPA-identifies-more-effective-cleanup-practices.--
-
Before-Cleanup-
1 Have-people-and-pets-leave-the-room,-and-avoid-the-breakage-area-on-the-way-out.--
2 Open-a-window-or-door-to-the-outdoors-and-leave-the-room-for-5‐10-minutes.--
3 Shut-off-the-central-forced‐air-heating/air-conditioning-(H&AC)-system,-if-you-have-one.--
4 Collect-materials-you-will-need-to-clean-up-the-broken-bulb:-
o Stiff-paper-or-cardboard-
o Sticky-tape-(e.g.,-duct-tape)-
o Damp-paper-towels-or-disposable-wet-wipes-(for-hard-surfaces)-
o Glass-jar-with-a-metal-lid-(such-as-a-canning-jar)-or-a-sealable-plastic-bag(s)--

CLEANUP-AND-DISPOSAL-OVERVIEW-​
-
The-most-important-steps-to-reduce-exposure-to-mercury-vapor-from-a-broken-bulb-are:-
-
1. Before-cleanup---
a. Have-people-and-pets-leave-the-room.-
b. Air-out-the-room-for-5‐10-minutes-by-opening-a-window-or-door-to-the-outdoor-
environment.---
c. Shut-off-the-central-forced-air-heating/air-conditioning--system,-if-you-have-one.-
d. Collect-materials-needed-to-clean-up-broken-bulb.-
-
2. During-cleanup--
a. Be-thorough-in-collecting-broken-glass-and-visible-powder.--
b. Place-cleanup-materials-in-a-sealable-container.-
-
3. After-cleanup--
a. Promptly-place-all-bulb-debris-and-cleanup-materials-outdoors-in-a-trash-container-or-
protected-area-until-materials-can-be-disposed-of-properly.--Avoid-leaving-any-bulb-
fragments-or-cleanup-materials-indoors.-
b. If-practical,-continue-to-air-out-the-room-where-the-bulb-was-broken-and-leave-the-
heating/air-conditioning-system-shut-off-for-several-hours.-


Cleanup-Steps-for-Hard-Surfaces-​
 Carefully-scoop-up-glass-fragments-and-powder-using-stiff-paper-or-cardboard-and-place-debris-and-
paper/cardboard-in-a-glass-jar-with-a-metal-lid.-If-a-glass-jar-is-not-available,-use-a-sealable-plastic-bag.--
(NOTE:-Since-a-plastic-bag-will-not-prevent-the-mercury-vapor-from-escaping,-remove-the-plastic-bag(s)-
from-the-home-after-cleanup.)-
 Use-sticky-tape,-such-as-duct-tape,-to-pick-up-any-remaining-small-glass-fragments-and-powder.--Place-
the-used-tape-in-the-glass-jar-or-plastic-bag.-
 Wipe-the-area-clean-with-damp-paper-towels-or-disposable-wet-wipes.-Place-the-towels-in-the-glass-jar-
or-plastic-bag.--
 Vacuuming-of-hard-surfaces-during-cleanup-is-not-recommended-unless-broken-glass-remains-after-all-
other-cleanup-steps-have-been-taken.-[NOTE:-It-is-possible-that-vacuuming-could-spread-mercury‐
containing-powder-or-mercury-vapor,-although-available-information-on-this-problem-is-limited.]--If-
vacuuming-is-needed-to-ensure-removal-of-all-broken-glass,-keep-the-following-tips-in-mind:-
o Keep-a-window-or-door-to-the-outdoors-open;---
o Vacuum-the-area-where-the-bulb-was-broken-using-the-vacuum-hose,-if-available;-and---
o Remove-the-vacuum-bag-(or-empty-and-wipe-the-canister)-and-seal-the-bag/vacuum-debris,-
and-any-materials-used-to-clean-the-vacuum,-in-a-plastic-bag.-
 Promptly-place-all-bulb-debris-and-cleanup-materials,-including-vacuum-cleaner-bags,-outdoors-in-a-
trash-container-or-protected-area-until-materials-can-be-disposed-of-properly.-
o Check-with-your-local-or-state-government-about-disposal-requirements-in-your-area.-Some-
states-and-communities-require-fluorescent-bulbs-(broken-or-unbroken)-be-taken-to-a-local-
recycling-center.--
 Wash-your-hands-with-soap-and-water-after-disposing-of-the-jars-or-plastic-bags-containing-bulb-debris-
and-cleanup-materials.--
 Continue-to-air-out-the-room-where-the-bulb-was-broken-and-leave-the-H&AC-system-shut-off,-as-
practical,-for-several-hours.-
Cleanup-Steps-for-Carpeting-or-Rugs-
 Carefully-scoop-up-glass-fragments-and-powder-using-stiff-paper-or-cardboard-and-place-debris-and-
paper/cardboard-in-a-glass-jar-with-a-metal-lid.-If-a-glass-jar-is-not-available,-use-a-sealable-plastic-bag.-
(NOTE:-Since-a-plastic-bag-will-not-prevent-the-mercury-vapor-from-escaping,-remove-the-plastic-bag(s)-
from-the-home-after-cleanup.)-
 Use-sticky-tape,-such-as-duct-tape,-to-pick-up-any-remaining-small-glass-fragments-and-powder.--Place-
the-used-tape-in-the-glass-jar-or-plastic-bag.-
 Vacuuming-of-carpeting-or-rugs-during-cleanup-is-not-recommended-unless-broken-glass-remains-after-
all-other-cleanup-steps-have-been-taken.--[NOTE:-It-is-possible-that-vacuuming-could-spread-mercury‐
containing-powder-or-mercury-vapor,-although-available-information-on-this-problem-is-limited.]--If-
vacuuming-is-needed-to-ensure-removal-of-all-broken-glass,-keep-the-following-tips-in-mind:-
o Keep-a-window-or-door-to-the-outdoors-open;--
o Vacuum-the-area-where-the-bulb-was-broken-using-the-vacuum-hose,-if-available,-and---
o Remove-the-vacuum-bag-(or-empty-and-wipe-the-canister)-and-seal-the-bag/vacuum-debris,-
and-any-materials-used-to-clean-the-vacuum,-in-a-plastic-bag.-
 Promptly-place-all-bulb-debris-and-cleanup-materials,-including-vacuum-cleaner-bags,-outdoors-in-a-
trash-container-or-protected-area-until-materials-can-be-disposed-of-properly.
o Check-with-your-local-or-state-government-about-disposal-requirements-in-your-area.-Some-
states-and-communities-require-fluorescent-bulbs-(broken-or-unbroken)-be-taken-to-a-local-
recycling-center.--
 Wash-your-hands-with-soap-and-water-after-disposing-of-the-jars-or-plastic-bags-containing-bulb-debris-
and-cleanup-materials.--
 Continue-to-air-out-the-room-where-the-bulb-was-broken-and-leave-the-H&AC-system-shut-off,-as-
practical,-for-several-hours.-
Future-Cleaning-of-Carpeting-or-Rugs:-Air-Out-the-Room-During-and-After-Vacuuming-
 The-next-several-times-you-vacuum-the-rug-or-carpet,-shut-off-the-H&AC-system-if-you-have-one,-close-
the-doors-to-other-rooms,-and-open-a-window-or-door-to-the-outside-before-vacuuming.--Change-the-
vacuum-bag-after-each-use-in-this-area.-
 After-vacuuming-is-completed,-keep-the-H&AC-system-shut-off-and-the-window-or-door-to-the-outside-
open,-as-practical,-for-several-hours.---
Actions-You-Can-Take-to-Prevent-Broken-Compact-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs-
Fluorescent-bulbs-are-made-of-glass-and-can-break-if-dropped-or-roughly-handled.--To-avoid-breaking-a-bulb,-
follow-these-general-practices:--
 Always-switch-off-and-allow-a-working-CFL-bulb-to-cool-before-handling.-
 Always-handle-CFL-bulbs-carefully-to-avoid-breakage.---
o If-possible,-screw/unscrew-the-CFL-by-holding-the-plastic-or-ceramic-base,-not-the-glass-tubing.---
o Gently-screw-in-the-CFL-until-snug.--Do-not-over‐tighten.-
o Never-forcefully-twist-the-glass-tubing.-
 Consider-not-using-CFLs-in-lamps-that-can-be-easily-knocked-over,-in-unprotected-light-fixtures,-or-in-
lamps-that-are-incompatible-with-the-spiral-or-folded-shape-of-many-CFLs.-
 Do-not-use-CFL-bulbs-in-locations-where-they-can-easily-be-broken,-such-as-play-spaces.-
 Use-CFL-bulbs-that-have-a-glass-or-plastic-cover-over-the-spiral-or-folded-glass-tube,-if-available.--These-
types-of-bulbs-look-more-like-incandescent-bulbs-and-may-be-more-durable-if-dropped.-
 Consider-using-a-drop-cloth-(e.g.,-plastic-sheet-or-beach-towel)-when-changing-a-fluorescent-light-bulb-
in-case-a-breakage-should-occur.--The-drop-cloth-will-help-prevent-mercury-contamination-of-nearby-
surfaces-and-can-be-bundled-with-the-bulb-debris-for-disposal.-
 

HiTech-Hate

New Member
Generally, we're heading toward a world where they'll have us all walking around wrapped in bubblewrap. Reporters know they get more viewership when they scare monger.

I agree with almost everything posted by Mr HiTech-Hate, but am not sure I'm on the same page with his statement. Below, I've posted the EPA's guide to CFL cleanup should a bulb be broken. It's almost comical ;)
Well we can't all be right about everything :p

But damn, you want an example of fearmongering, that EPA guide is it. If you replaced the word mercury/broken glass with nuclear blast, it would almost sound like a 1980s pamphlet on how to survive a nuclear attack lol
 

LEDman

New Member
All I can say regarding this subject is: enough of the panic. CFLs have been in use so long we can honestly say they're a proven and safe technology. I hate that Europe has decided to make them mandatory for a myriad of reasons, first and foremost their ugliness and unnatural light. Yet, that shouldn't trigger a knee-jerk reaction against the technology, but rather against the lobbyists and our almightly overlords bribed by them.

Chances of being hit my a meteorite are bigger than dying of the tiny amount of mercury released if you drop a hundred of these or the insignificant amount of UV rays they produce.

You go out everyday, breathe polluted air, drive unsafe vehicles at high speeds, but get all crazy about minuscule statistical probabilities? Come on. Light up, relax. It's what life is all about, or at the very least, this site.
 
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