CFLGrow's Soil, White Widow, CFL Stealth Growbox Journal - 2010

[Barry Manilow]

Hey Blue! Things are going well! I'm two weeks into flower... the seeds germinated on October 7th.

And Blue - I've seen you on a ton of similar forums... do you have any guesses (based on previous, similar journals) on what sized harvest I could hope for?

Hey buddy we're on an almost identical cycle, mine germed 10/8 and have been in flower 19 days. I'm hoping for 2 z's per plant but that's probably optimistic. With your lighting upgrade I think you should do that well or better.

If you haven't already check out Elbee's grow.... he's doing something similar to what you are with WW's, he can give you a better idea I'm sure.

Looking great!

 

[cflgrow]

Hey buddy we're on an almost identical cycle, mine germed 10/8 and have been in flower 19 days. I'm hoping for 2 z's per plant but that's probably optimistic. With your lighting upgrade I think you should do that well or better.

If you haven't already check out Elbee's grow.... he's doing something similar to what you are with WW's, he can give you a better idea I'm sure.

Looking great!

Thanks for the love! Why are you thinking 2 oz's is optimistic? What's the weakest link in your grow... lighting?

Also, thanks for elbee's post. I hadn't read it before. But it's definitely useful stuff! If you were to suggest anything that I could do at this point to increase yield... lollipop, more watts, CO2, additional nutes/suppliments.... what would you suggest? I'm hoping to get through 99% of my learning curve this time around, so next grow will have fewer surprises.

And honestly, even crazy suggestions are more than welcome

This goes to everyone else, as well. If you can think of ways to boost my yield, chime in!

 

[Barry Manilow]

Thanks for the love! Why are you thinking 2 oz's is optimistic? What's the weakest link in your grow... lighting?

Also, thanks for elbee's post. I hadn't read it before. But it's definitely useful stuff! If you were to suggest anything that I could do at this point to increase yield... lollipop, more watts, CO2, additional nutes/suppliments.... what would you suggest? I'm hoping to get through 99% of my learning curve this time around, so next grow will have fewer surprises.

And honestly, even crazy suggestions are more than welcome

This goes to everyone else, as well. If you can think of ways to boost my yield, chime in!

Here's my thinking, such as it is.... in my last grow the plants vegged much longer and were outside, and I was in line to produce 4-6 z's per plant before the rot set in. These all vegged for about a month and while they're good sized they're not monsters. Combine that with cfl lighting and I'll be real happy with 2 z's per plant.

I'm a total newbie in many ways, especially regarding supplements. Snowstorm seems to be a popular supplement.... the guy you should ask is IrishBoy he's the master at maxing yield. Good luck!

 

[cflgrow]

Thanks BlueDog! I've looked at some of IrishBoy's posts... I'll definitely drop him a line

And forget being new to this... you're an avid learner/sharer... so that puts you head and shoulders above the majority. I've been contemplating adding auxiliary lighting around the sides/bases with my CFL's... but the room's a bit crowded, and extra lamps wouldn't help that.

Thanks again!

 

[Evo-Rat-93]

take some cuttings and keep them as mothers (3or 4)

 

[Evo-Rat-93]

u just need some were to keep them in vedge.in a month or so they should be healthy mothers ready to be cloned.

 

[Barry Manilow]

Thanks for the kind words cfl, although I'm still very much a rookie. I've got the same problem with the cfl's taking up too much space, but I don't have a nice big light like you do. I'm looking at a 250 or 400W cmh bulb for the future. Maybe Santa will bring me one

 

[TorturedSoul]

Unfortunately I've been having troubles with being 'gentle' during the LST process... I've split two right down the center where they were topped...

Just stick it back together and wrap it securely for a while, it'll be fine.

Oh - and I'm still trying to think of a simple fix for my veg-bloom-clone issue. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

If I only have the one room (which has a cloning chamber... maybe 12-14" tall?), how can I get a more consistent supply with clones? In a perfect world, I would start with clones, switch to bloom immediately after the roots set, and then harvest. But I want about 50 to 60 clones to be prepped and ready when I harvest...

With a two-month bloom phase, I'd have pretty big clones. Maybe there's a way to keep growth really slow on my clones? That way at 2 months, they'd still be under the 12" mark?

Not sure. Thanks for your thoughts!

If you don't need to take cuttings from your mother constantly... Then you can keep one anywhere. You can keep a plant on the top of a bathroom cabinet with a CFL light or two. It won't grow much, but if you keep the light on all the time it won't flower and if you keep it close to the light(s) - especially if it's 6500K, it won't stretch much, either. (Or drink much, or "eat" much.)

Or if you want to hide it, buy a 30-gallon aluminum trash can (with lid) and turn it into a mother chamber. You can even add plenty of lights to prepare for the active-growth phase just prior to the end of your current harvest. Either only run a portion of them or set a timer so that the lights only run for a few hours at a time - just make sure that there is no dark period that approaches 12 hours. You know, three hours on, seven hours off, seven hours hours on, seven hours off... Whatever. More than likely you won't have problems with the mother going hermie and if you do it's because it was prone to it anyway, lol. Just try to be consistent (thus, the timer) and don't try to slow growth by keeping the light(s) far away because that'll just cause the plant to stretch. Far better to use weaker lights up close (or less light-hours up close).

Remember, it's not the lack of light that causes a plant to flower, but the amount of uninterrupted darkness. A plant in a trash can that's not growing much or one in a small pot in your bathroom that isn't growing at all won't present the odor problem that one which is actively growing will. Won't use the electricity, water, or nutrients that an active plant would - and you won't end up with a giant mother when you don't need that many cuttings (or at least when you don't need them every couple of weeks). Just remember to put it back into active growth ahead of time.

 

[oldthumber]

Hey BlueDog! I really appreciate those bits of wisdom I had heard one or two people mention going straight to 12/12, but I didn't know the pro's/con's. Can you get as much yield with no veg stage? I plan on LST'ing like crazy to keep them low... will that compensate, or are you still suggesting 12/12 in spite of the LST?

And I've done a bit of research on CRF's... but I dislike the inability to control them. ie, the nitrogen levels stay just as high during bloom as they do during veg. I found a pretty decent marijuana-focused fertilizer made here in my town, and the people I've talked to say it's pretty solid. It's a simple two-part fertilizer mix - one for veg, one for bloom. $40 for both, and will probably last me for almost a dozen plants.

Any tips on topping? That's one subject I'm a bit clueless on.

What is LST?

 

[cflgrow]

Hey Oldthumber!

Low Stress Training is what I was referring. Instead of letting the plant grow up naturally and straight, I tie down every tall branch. When I gently bend it down, it allows the light to hit more of the plant, and I don't break anything in the process. You get a lower plant with more bud sites that way.

And welcome to my grow. TorturedSoul! I have a lot of respect for you and your posts, so welcome! Criticism, suggestions, they're all very welcome here! I'm thinking about keeping mothers, but it might be wiser to go with feminized seeds and a couple generations of clones, for me.

 

[cflgrow]

Hey Oldthumber!

Low Stress Training is what I was referring. Instead of letting the plant grow up naturally and straight, I tie down every tall branch. When I gently bend it down, it allows the light to hit more of the plant, and I don't break anything in the process. You get a lower plant with more bud sites that way.

And welcome to my grow. TorturedSoul! I have a lot of respect for you and your posts, so welcome! Criticism, suggestions, they're all very welcome here! I'm thinking about keeping mothers, but it might be wiser to go with feminized seeds and a couple generations of clones, for me.

 

[cflgrow]

Well, I decided to start taking clones!

I figure I'd do a few rounds... odds are I'll have a pretty low success rate. Once I got it in my head that I was going to take cuttings, I went full speed ahead. Maybe a little too eager, though... I've barely done any research on it. So here's my method, and please, please, please critique me. Haha.

I mixed up a few liters of 'cloning solution'. I made the recipe myself. It was two liters of ph'd water that had sat for 24 hours with an air stone. Then I added 1-2 ml's of my veg nute (full strength is 3 ml/l), 1-2 ml's peroxide, and about the same amount of rooting hormone powder.

Honestly, this could be an entirely ridiculous recipe, but it's what I pieced together from some YouTube tutorials.

I then soaked the rockwool cubes in this solution, and took cuttings. They were all branches with at least two full nodes, usually three. All were around 4"-6". I snipped them off with scissors, and immediately dropped them into a cup of my 'solution'. Once I had all of them, I'd remove one at a time, trim any leaves that were close to the base, and used a scalpel to cut the base on a 45. I dipped the bottom inch into Clonex gel, and put them into the rockwool cubes.

I put a humidity dome over top over the seedling tray, and misted the walls with the solution. I'm trying to keep the clones themselves relatively moisture free to prevent rot, but the RH of the dome is 100%. I have two 4' fluoro's on them 24 hours a day, and the temperature ranges from 75-84. There's no heating mat underneath, as the temperatures are already pushing it pretty high.

As I see necrosis appearing on the leaves, I trim up. I'm misting the walls of the dome every day.

Today I put one of the bubbler hoses into the humidity dome to get a bit of air flow happening. Not sure if that's necessary or wise, but the cloning chamber is pretty stagnant. I figured as long as they don't dry out too much, the fresh air couldn't hurt.

Well everyone... where am I going wrong? Feel free to post your person 'cloning solution recipes', differences in technique, etc. I'm at the bottom of my learning curve here, and hope to take two more batches of clones in the next couple days.

Thanks, and happy growing!

 

[Barry Manilow]

Well, I decided to start taking clones!

I figure I'd do a few rounds... odds are I'll have a pretty low success rate. Once I got it in my head that I was going to take cuttings, I went full speed ahead. Maybe a little too eager, though... I've barely done any research on it. So here's my method, and please, please, please critique me. Haha.

I mixed up a few liters of 'cloning solution'. I made the recipe myself. It was two liters of ph'd water that had sat for 24 hours with an air stone. Then I added 1-2 ml's of my veg nute (full strength is 3 ml/l), 1-2 ml's peroxide, and about the same amount of rooting hormone powder.

Honestly, this could be an entirely ridiculous recipe, but it's what I pieced together from some YouTube tutorials.

I then soaked the rockwool cubes in this solution, and took cuttings. They were all branches with at least two full nodes, usually three. All were around 4"-6". I snipped them off with scissors, and immediately dropped them into a cup of my 'solution'. Once I had all of them, I'd remove one at a time, trim any leaves that were close to the base, and used a scalpel to cut the base on a 45. I dipped the bottom inch into Clonex gel, and put them into the rockwool cubes.

I put a humidity dome over top over the seedling tray, and misted the walls with the solution. I'm trying to keep the clones themselves relatively moisture free to prevent rot, but the RH of the dome is 100%. I have two 4' fluoro's on them 24 hours a day, and the temperature ranges from 75-84. There's no heating mat underneath, as the temperatures are already pushing it pretty high.

As I see necrosis appearing on the leaves, I trim up. I'm misting the walls of the dome every day.

Today I put one of the bubbler hoses into the humidity dome to get a bit of air flow happening. Not sure if that's necessary or wise, but the cloning chamber is pretty stagnant. I figured as long as they don't dry out too much, the fresh air couldn't hurt.

Well everyone... where am I going wrong? Feel free to post your person 'cloning solution recipes', differences in technique, etc. I'm at the bottom of my learning curve here, and hope to take two more batches of clones in the next couple days.

Thanks, and happy growing!

Hey CFL how's it going? How many did you take?

I've yet to see 2 peeps describe the same cloning method, everyone seems to find something that works for them. I just took 6 not that long ago and I think they'll all make it. I just cut them and stuck them in root shooters, which I stuck in perlite. I watered/misted them, kept them under a light 18/6 and tried to keep temps up around 80. They all just sat there for about 2 weeks then I'd notice some yellowing of the bottom leaves, which indicated they were starting to root/grow.

In my first attempt earlier this year I had them in water, they were doing fine until I added a small amount of nutes which almost immediately killed them.

Good luck and post some pics when you get time.

 

[cflgrow]

I'm afraid that I'm without internet, and will be until Tuesday or so I'm just posting from my cell, at the moment.

As such, the photos will have to wait. But the flowers are looking thick and white One plant has some aggressive yellow spotting, and the leaves are crispy. Where the yellow is the worst, it turns to brown. This particular plant is also going through water much faster. Any ideas on what the cause might be?

Also, I took 21 clones, Blue. They seem to be doing well so far... but who knows? Does anyone have any constructive criticism for my cloning method? I'm hoping to take some more clones, so I'd prefer to have as much input as possible, beforehand.

Thanks 420!

 

[cflgrow]

Well, it's update time again.

And unfortunately, I still have no pictures for you. I know that reading a totally colourless journal can get boring... but bear with me and my technical difficulties Haha. They'll be up as soon as my home internet situation is resolved.

In the meantime... I'll fill you all in on what's been happening in the grow room. I have a panda-poly sealed grow shelf for my clones, and I now have two propagation trays with humidity domes in there. 24 hour t5 lighting, and 43 clones.

I changed my cloning 'solution' a little bit this last time... instead of using H2O2, I replaced it with Root Excellurator. I figured the peroxide might be a little harsh on the clones.

So here's my next question. If I have 43 clones to work with, and three 4' x 2.5' trays... what will get me the best yield? I'm still pretty sure I'm going to try an ebb and grow approach, mixed with SOG. Fill the trays with hydroton and net pots, and see what happens. To those of you who know hydro... would I be better off doing fewer clones in DWC buckets? Or, any other approach for that matter?

I'd love to hear your thoughts - lighting and materials aren't really an issue.

Cheers!

 

[cflgrow]

I managed to get some crappy cell pictures so y'all can keep up... they're no HD shots, but at least you can get a feel for where everything is right now

This Sunday will be week 4 of bloom. So realizing that I'm not even halfway, I'm pretty happy with my progress. Quick question for everyone - what do Cal/Mg deficiencies look like? That's one thing I'm guessing I might run into soon, if not already.

Anyway, here are some attempted bud shots, as well as a preview of my panda-poly enclosed clone shelf

Cheers 420 world!

 

[karagrows]

Hi, just checkin out the clones..... Can't really help out, as I have had little success in cloning out of rockwool. All I can say is keep doing what your doing. Asking questions, and read info on it.... Good luck...

 

[cflgrow]

Well, I can stop stressing!

After 13 days, the first batch of 21 clones have roots set. Some are still pretty tiny, but some of the bigger clones have thick root systems that I hadn't noticed until now! Considering how little leaf damage there is, I'm pretty sure it's just a matter of time before 100% of them have large, visible root systems in the rockwool cubes.

As for the next batch of 22, they're looking even healthier than the first set. I'm thinking that in a week, I'll be looking at over 40 rooted clones! I'm rather proud of myself right now

Also, today is the halfway mark for the master kush! I'll post pictures tomorrow if I can, but my they're coming along nicely Not nearly as thick as I was hoping, but it's a first grow. Hopefully they thicken up in the next month.

 

[Barry Manilow]

Hey CFL looking good! We're almost the same 12/12 and our buds look a lot alike, mine are 31 days in. I've been asking around and I think that the times seed companies give are from when you spot the pistils, for me that was about 10 days after switching the lights. So really we're not as far into flower as our dates indicate. A long way of saying they should have another week or two longer to hopefully fatten up for us.

I think it's exciting, because I really don't know what cfl's will do. Maybe they'll surprise us in a good way.

Cal/Mag - a few pics from my grow. It happened fast, leaf looks a little discolored day one, looks really bad day 2.

Notice how it was just hitting a leaf or leaf cluster here and there? I've seen it much worse, when it hits lots of leaves in a very short period of time. It starts along the vein and moves outward.

This is not a good pic but if you look closely you'll see dead spots on the leaf, almost like a bug problem.

I top dressed the perlite with a low dose of ironite mineral supplement and epsom salts, watered it in and that fixed it immediately. Hope that helps.

You haven't lost a clone out of more than 40???? I'm totally psyched that I think I'll get 6 out of 6. Great job!

 

[cflgrow]

Well, so far I only have one cutting showing any signs of distress - the blades on one fan leaf yellowed and browned along the tips. I snipped those off, and now all I can see is healthy green on all 43.

I can't guarantee that all 43 will form healthy roots... but at least they're one and two weeks in and still vibrant.

As for the photo series on Cal/Mag, thanks a ton! That's exactly what's been plaguing my white widows I have epsom salts already, I'll do a bit of reading on ironite mineral supplement. Tomorrow I'm heading in to the grow shop.

Speaking of which... I'm hoping to pick your 'collective brains'. See if I can gather some wisdom from 420magazine I'm mentally redesigning my grow room right now, and I know I need to make some drastic changes next time around. I have a shelf and trays set up for an ebb and flow system, but I'm not really sure I want to continue in that approach.

I'm basically just using you all as a sounding board for my thoughts... so feel free to comment, defend and criticize my ruminations.

I'm feeling that since I'm not a 'feeding master' yet, growing 40-60 clones in a SOG 'hedge' might not be the right approach. When things go wrong somewhere in that 'hedge' of vegetation, I'm going to have a hard time getting in to see what's amiss... and an even harder time correcting it.

Also deterring me from growing 43 or more clones is the legal implications. I don't really see things going well for me if I were caught with that many plants. My current grow of 6 would be easy to claim for personal use.

This has all led me to favour a 8 or 10 or 12 site ebb and grow system. I've been following karagrows' journal, and I think a tidy, well run system would be better for me than a cola farm. Ebb and grow just happens to be system I'm most familiar with.

Do any of you have other recommendations given my setup? I have tall HID's, so I only have about 5' of growth allowed. And I'm hoping to keep the number of plants at 10. My room is roughly 4' x 10'. I like outside the box ideas, too