Cloudy or clear

[SQl2kGuy]

Nice summary.

I had seen the study that you referred to, and that's why I don't flush. It doesn't remove anything from the buds, and so I would rather the plants have access to the nutes that they might need, versus needing them and not being able to access. I can't judge/time very well when a plant will be ready to harvest, and so I don't want to stop feeding too early. Yes, I'm growing in coco.

The darkness thing may be just another old tale. However, the story goes that the dark period triggers a last push of trichs. It may also start the breakdown of chlorophyll, which is what can give the end product a nasty taste. The low and slow drying/cure is meant first to preserve the trichs and terps, but also to allow the chlorophyll a long window to break down.

In all of this, flush, dark, cure, you are exactly right... definitely a personal choice that each one of us gets to decide on!

I'm just learning about coco now ... since we feed with about 10%-20% of run-off there may not be a buildup of salts ... I need to check on that though.

I'd need to research and verify that leaving the plant in the dark for three days is healthy. But it sound counterintuitive though.

I mean ... you grow a plant for months ... invest lots of time and money ... to get to where the trichomes are growing ... we monitor the trichomes for best pesrsonal results ... the plant is healthy and still growing ... we are in control in this final critical stage ... we shouldn't stress it ... we should push it hard with full-on bloom nutes and light keep it healthy.

Even the Fox Farm feeding schedule ... designed by scientists with PhDs support this ... notice how after a soil flush we keep feeding full bloom nutrients:

​

If you stop feeding ... the plant can get Nitrogen and other nutrients from the leaves ... but it still needs the PK ... Phosphorous and Potassium.

In my opinion ... don't starve a plant of nutrient food or light food in it's most critical period of growth.

Curing fast gives a harsh smoke ... curing slow gives a smoother smoke.

Awesome chatting with you @The Bard ... as I'm always trying to learn and become a better grower

ttyl amigo!

 

[GreenPastures]

As far as I'm aware, flushing will take away next to nothing of the chemicals in the bud, as it is the leaves that perspire water vapor. But then again, seems no science has been able to study what goes on in the plant's internal system, so perhaps the nutrients is not even present to begin with, that is, if it has been converted into plant energy/food.

My point was that flushing initiates a growth in bud size, by starving the plant to make it react by giving off new growth, which has been proven when the plant thinks it's dying. I don't know much about nutrients in the plant when harvesting without flush or with it, makes no difference to me.

The process of leaving the plant in the dark for 48 hours or longer, is an old one. It is supposed to promote more trichome production, and enhance smell. There are tons of posts out there about it.

Hey, I'm just reading all of this like you guys, picking out what I think has merit and what doesn't, lol.

 

[The Bard]

As far as I'm aware, flushing will take away next to nothing of the chemicals in the bud, as it is the leaves that perspire water vapor. But then again, seems no science has been able to study what goes on in the plant's internal system, so perhaps the nutrients is not even present to begin with, that is, if it has been converted into plant energy/food.

My point was that flushing initiates a growth in bud size, by starving the plant to make it react by giving off new growth, which has been proven when the plant thinks it's dying. I don't know much about nutrients in the plant when harvesting without flush or with it, makes no difference to me.

The process of leaving the plant in the dark for 48 hours or longer, is an old one. It is supposed to promote more trichome production, and enhance smell. There are tons of posts out there about it.

Hey, I'm just reading all of this like you guys, picking out what I think has merit and what doesn't, lol.

Nice to be able to banter these ideas around in a friendly way! So often these discussions become nasty arguments instead of constructive learning opportunities. Appreciate you guys sharing your approaches and opinions, thanks!

 

[GreenPastures]

If you water at least twice a day, it's almost impossible to get salt build up in Coco. Only time I got it was when I missed a watering and it was a hot day, then I'd see it forming on top of the medium, and use some flush liquid to break it down.

It can't hurt to put the plant in the dark either way, if it's the last day or two before chop. I did this, and it came out all sugary even more so, but I have no other plant to compare it to, so I wouldn't know if it did anything or not.

 

[The Bard]

If you water at least twice a day, it's almost impossible to get salt build up in Coco. Only time I got it was when I missed a watering and it was a hot day, then I'd see it forming on top of the medium, and use some flush liquid to break it down.

It can't hurt to put the plant in the dark either way, if it's the last day or two before chop. I did this, and it came out all sugary even more so, but I have no other plant to compare it to, so I wouldn't know if it did anything or not.

Yup! I water at least once per day during veg (once seedlings are established) and then 3-4 times per day during flower - this is all in coco, so overwatering is very unlikely. My understanding is that it keeps the roots well-aerated, and as you noted, virtually eliminates the risk of salt build-up. My girls were drinking a lot towards the end - the combination of their size, the fabric pots, and the dehumidifier all made frequent watering a must. Nutes with every watering right up until the end.

This conversation has been really interesting, but it seems like we have wandered away a bit from the OP's question. Sorry @Fatlad!

 

[Fatlad]

Wow guys thanks for the discussion and what makes it interesting is that everyone has there own opinion.. think I need to explain a little about my history .. I'm still pretty new to this as it's only my 4th grow .. 1st two went perfect without problems then I decided to go bigger which ended up in disaster and a total right off so this one I've just gone back to basics.. I'm using auto pots which basically bottom feed my plants so no actual water or nutrients go in from the top ... the plant feeds itself when its thirsty ... I'm growing in CoCo as well but as with you guys it's my 1st time using coco and autopots together ... as stated I'm pretty new so I go off what people tell me or advise me to do as it's still a learning curve .. the 7 day flush and the lights of is what I've read on forums or been told to do .. but nothing is set in stone and I'm willing to change and adapt if I feel its beneficial to my plants and with you guys helping me along the way I'm open to all suggestions.. not here to say what's right or wrong but to listen and move forward on the next adventure .. once again thanks for the advice it all been taken on board

 

[The Bard]

Glad the discussion was helpful, @Fatlad. Seems like you have a great open mind. Have you thought about starting a journal to log your progress? It can be really helpful for yourself, just to refer back to at a later date to recall what you did. In addition, you'll likely get other folks here on 420 stopping by to see what you are up to, offer advice, different opinions, etc.

Just FYI, there is a similar conversation going on in a different thread thought I thought you might find interesting. @Emilya just posted some helpful comments....

I will give my 2c worth on this too, understanding that many do not agree with my opinions on these matters... but that is ok... there are many many ways to grow pot.
I did experiments regarding the dark period at the end, and did find that 36 hours of darkness before the chop does indeed increase the size, length and potency of the trichomes. The results were so dramatic that I will never harvest again without going through this step.
I come from the old school where a flush was the movement of 3x the container size in water through the medium in order to "flush" out the salts and debris in the soil. A "flush" is not intended to clean the plant, it is only to clean the soil. The old belief that a flush at the very end removed nutes that would be tasted in the final product has been completely debunked and we now know that flushing at the end does not change the taste of a cured bud. So I see no value whatsoever with a flush in the final couple of days at the end of a grow, and I do not consider giving water for a week or two at the end an actual flush, although many do call it that erroneously these days.... giving water at the end is simply starving your plant, again, trying to clean out the plant, and it has nothing to do with the traditional concept of flushing the soil. So when do you properly flush the soil? Two weeks before the end the buds enter a period known as final bud swell, where the buds can grow to twice their size in that final bit of time. Before that time most of us give heavy nutes, building those buds in weeks 5-7, and as a result a lot of salt builds up in the soil. Salt restricts water uptake, exactly what you do NOT want to happen in the final two weeks. A proper 3x flush prior to this 2 week ending period, cleans out the soil and allows the plant to uptake the maximum amount of nutes and water while doing the final build on those buds and has to significantly increase the size of the buds compared to someone who did not flush at this most proper time.
Staggered harvests are when you take some that is ripe to a certain point so that you can sample the trichomes at let's say 2% amber. If you wait a few more days, the amber might increase to 5%, and many take another harvest at this point to see what that level of ripeness does for them. You probably don't know yet at which point of ripeness your favorite is going to be, so staggered harvests are highly recommended so you can find out.
Drying and curing have so many different methods, it would take another book to go into it... so I will stop here and let you do more research on the various methods.

 

[Fatlad]

Glad the discussion was helpful, @Fatlad. Seems like you have a great open mind. Have you thought about starting a journal to log your progress? It can be really helpful for yourself, just to refer back to at a later date to recall what you did. In addition, you'll likely get other folks here on 420 stopping by to see what you are up to, offer advice, different opinions, etc.

Just FYI, there is a similar conversation going on in a different thread thought I thought you might find interesting. @Emilya just posted some helpful comments....

Wow interesting read that pal .. I think a lot of people are swaying to the non flush process

 

[The Bard]

Wow interesting read that pal .. I think a lot of people are swaying to the non flush process

I think as the science spreads, that will be the case.

 

[Fatlad]

Well I've started my flush so might as well continue it until day 5 then turn lights off for 2 .. as for the next time thank I'm gonna change things and feed until the end ... it's just the drying process and how long it takes puts me off

 

[Fatlad]

I think as the science spreads, that will be the case.

Defo pal but some people dont like change and probably in there own way are right cos end of the day they are the growers and product tasters so if it works for them who are we to say otherwise .. but things do change with all these scientists about and it up to us to either stay old school or try new things I suppose

 

[Emilya Green]

If you left the plant, it would continue to live for months until chopped.

Welcome to the forum Saul, but I have to strongly disagree on this one. The plant is starting to die at harvest time, and yes, you can force her to go on a little while longer and try to produce seeds in sort of a second wind, but eventually, and not months later, she is going to die.

 

[SQl2kGuy]

As far as I'm aware, flushing will take away next to nothing of the chemicals in the bud, as it is the leaves that perspire water vapor. But then again, seems no science has been able to study what goes on in the plant's internal system, so perhaps the nutrients is not even present to begin with, that is, if it has been converted into plant energy/food.

My point was that flushing initiates a growth in bud size, by starving the plant to make it react by giving off new growth, which has been proven when the plant thinks it's dying. I don't know much about nutrients in the plant when harvesting without flush or with it, makes no difference to me.

The process of leaving the plant in the dark for 48 hours or longer, is an old one. It is supposed to promote more trichome production, and enhance smell. There are tons of posts out there about it.

Hey, I'm just reading all of this like you guys, picking out what I think has merit and what doesn't, lol.

We need to be careful here as new readers need to be informed and less confused.

The study clearly states:

This result showed that the intended purpose of flushing to reduce nutrient concentrations within
the bud has no effect.

This means that there are going to be nutrients in the bud ... you can't stop that. It is a myth that flushing will stop nutrients from getting into your buds. Curing will help eliminate some of the unwanted nutrients ... not flushing.

Flushing is more about the soil than the bud. Flushing is designed to eliminate toxic salts and waste from your soil ... that is why we flush about every 4 weeks.

In your last flush ... it's just a flush plain and simple ... again you are eliminating waste so you can feed in more nutrients.

With the soil clear ... you can now add in lots of bloom nutrients ... even more than usual ... and the plant is more efficient at absorbing them so your buds will grow bigger and faster.

There is hardly any new growth in the plant in the final weeks ... no new leaves etc.

The entire focus is on growing those buds ... so it can maximize its probability of reproducing.

The leaves start to yellow because it is using those stored nutrients.

Fushing does not initiate bud growth ... that is going to happen regardless ... it is in the plants DNA to behave like that.

You don't want to starve a plant of light or nutrients that is begging for nutrients to make its buds bigger.

Do you have a link to this research please ... I don't ever remember reading something like this:

My point was that flushing initiates a growth in bud size, by starving the plant to make it react by giving off new growth, which has been proven when the plant thinks it's dying.

Anyway, I think we'll leave it at that for now ...

ttyl

 

[SQl2kGuy]

Nice to be able to banter these ideas around in a friendly way! So often these discussions become nasty arguments instead of constructive learning opportunities. Appreciate you guys sharing your approaches and opinions, thanks!

Absolutely ... this a 100% learning community backed by respect and openness!

 

[SQl2kGuy]

If you water at least twice a day, it's almost impossible to get salt build up in Coco. Only time I got it was when I missed a watering and it was a hot day, then I'd see it forming on top of the medium, and use some flush liquid to break it down.

It can't hurt to put the plant in the dark either way, if it's the last day or two before chop. I did this, and it came out all sugary even more so, but I have no other plant to compare it to, so I wouldn't know if it did anything or not.

It's great to have new members like you ... I'm enjoying the conversation!

I will try and research that dark thing this week if I can find some time

 

[SQl2kGuy]

Yup! I water at least once per day during veg (once seedlings are established) and then 3-4 times per day during flower - this is all in coco, so overwatering is very unlikely. My understanding is that it keeps the roots well-aerated, and as you noted, virtually eliminates the risk of salt build-up. My girls were drinking a lot towards the end - the combination of their size, the fabric pots, and the dehumidifier all made frequent watering a must. Nutes with every watering right up until the end.

This conversation has been really interesting, but it seems like we have wandered away a bit from the OP's question. Sorry @Fatlad!

Well I've started my flush so might as well continue it until day 5 then turn lights off for 2 .. as for the next time thank I'm gonna change things and feed until the end ... it's just the drying process and how long it takes puts me off

Hey ... a flush is a one time thing ... starving is different ... Say no to starving ... lol

I'm glad we were able to chat ... and it's never too late to give bloom nutes while the plant is still alive

Thanks @Emilya ... research done ... I will add this to my growing set of skills:

I did experiments regarding the dark period at the end, and did find that 36 hours of darkness before the chop does indeed increase the size, length and potency of the trichomes. The results were so dramatic that I will never harvest again without going through this step.

 

[Fatlad]

We need to be careful here as new readers need to be informed and less confused.

The study clearly states:

This result showed that the intended purpose of flushing to reduce nutrient concentrations within
the bud has no effect.

This means that there are going to be nutrients in the bud ... you can't stop that. It is a myth that flushing will stop nutrients from getting into your buds. Curing will help eliminate some of the unwanted nutrients ... not flushing.

Flushing is more about the soil than the bud. Flushing is designed to eliminate toxic salts and waste from your soil ... thatbis why we flush about 4 weeks.

In your last flush ... it's just a flush plain and simple ... again you are eliminating waste so you can feed in more nutrients.

With the soil clear ... you can now add in lots of bloom nutrients ... even more than usual ... and the plant is more efficient at absorbing them so your buds will grow bigger and faster.

There is hardly any new growth in the plant in the final weeks ... no new leaves etc.

The entire focus is on growing those buds ... so it can maximize its probability of reproducing.

The leaves start to yellow because it is using those stored nutrients.

Fushing does not initiate bud growth ... that is going to happen regardless ... it is in the plants DNA to behave like that.

You don't want to starve a plant of light or nutrients that is begging for nutrients to make its buds bigger.

Do you have a link to this research please ... I don't ever remember reading something like this:

My point was that flushing initiates a growth in bud size, by starving the plant to make it react by giving off new growth, which has been proven when the plant thinks it's dying.

Anyway, I think we'll leave it at that for now ...

ttyl

So how would I flush using autopots as its bottom feed

 

[Emilya Green]

Thanks @Emilya ... research done ... In will add this to my growing set of skills:

I am even thinking about testing the nail or splitting of the trunk right at the end too... seems to have merit.

 

[Emilya Green]

So how would I flush using autopots as its bottom feed

it doesnt have to be bottom feed for the flush... just pour it in the top

 

[SQl2kGuy]

Defo pal but some people dont like change and probably in there own way are right cos end of the day they are the growers and product tasters so if it works for them who are we to say otherwise .. but things do change with all these scientists about and it up to us to either stay old school or try new things I suppose

Welcome to 420 @Fatlad ... this has been a great thread!

We are not here to change anyone's mind.

We are here to inform and then let people choose a personal growing style they are comfortable with.

You are going to love it here for sure!!!