Core & Coil Ballast For CMH 315 Watt

[NewToTHC]

Does anyone know of the mfg part number for a ballast for a 315W CMH. I am looking to source NOT a electronic/digital ballast but a old school magnetic coil and core. Perhaps they just don't make something like that for CMH bulbs?. Can't seem to find anything on the Advance or Philips catalogue.

On another note has anyone run a 315W CMH on a regular 400watt MH ballast, not speaking of the conversion bulbs, but a actual 315watt CMH? Some posts seem to suggest it could be done, but not sure if that is going to overdrive the bulb to failure or perhaps the bulb itself self-regulates the current draw.

 

[TorturedSoul]

If you don't mind giving your money to the Scotts Miracle-Gro corporation, there's: "HGC902659 - Sun System Hard Core LEC 315 Watt 120 / 240 Volt."

 

[NewToTHC]

Thanks for that, will have a look.

 

[Curbcalamity]

Does anyone know of the mfg part number for a ballast for a 315W CMH. I am looking to source NOT a electronic/digital ballast but a old school magnetic coil and core. Perhaps they just don't make something like that for CMH bulbs?. Can't seem to find anything on the Advance or Philips catalogue.

On another note has anyone run a 315W CMH on a regular 400watt MH ballast, not speaking of the conversion bulbs, but a actual 315watt CMH? Some posts seem to suggest it could be done, but not sure if that is going to overdrive the bulb to failure or perhaps the bulb itself self-regulates the current draw.

It'll work, for about, well your guess is good as mine. Depends on your ballast most of the time they break though sincethry need low frequency ballasts

 

[Curbcalamity]

Oh make sure for the love of god you dont use an open reflector with old 400W CMH on magnetic ballasts

 

[NewToTHC]

It'll work, for about, well your guess is good as mine. Depends on your ballast most of the time they break though sincethry need low frequency ballasts

Not going to risk it, I am sure it would probably work but would be overdriving the bulb. Who knows what else it does, maybe completely changes the spectrum output. I am sure if it was that easy everyone would be doing it. Have seen a couple mag ballasts for sale that advertise as 315 CMH but when looking at the specs the current draw is the same as a 400 Watt MH, so probably all they are doing and marking it up.

 

[NewToTHC]

Oh make sure for the love of god you dont use an open reflector with old 400W CMH on magnetic ballasts

Why is that, bulb exploding?

 

[Curbcalamity]

Yeah basically lol cos gloves rated for magnetic ballasts aren't jacketed bulbs and aren't designed to be used in open reflectors. The ceramic arc tube is about 2000C+ if your in a tent. You'll start a fire almost 100% also normally you need. HPS ballast not a MH?

 

[Curbcalamity]

But friends old.man claims tthey're the tits. but run even hotter. Bulb life is also reduced why companies love them.

 

[TorturedSoul]

Yeah basically lol cos gloves rated for magnetic ballasts aren't jacketed bulbs and aren't designed to be used in open reflectors.

That has to do with UV exposure, not the type of ballast technology.

Also, while I'm thinking about it, in regards to post #4: C&C ballasts are "low frequency."

 

[NewToTHC]

That has to do with UV exposure, not the type of ballast technology.

Also, while I'm thinking about it, in regards to post #4: C&C ballasts are "low frequency."

As I understand it unless the outer jacket of the bulb is compromised the UV emitted is relatively safe. Of course you don't want to be staring at the bulb. Always a good idea I suppose to use a reflector with a glass shield as a extra precaution.

And a core and coil ballast frequency would match the frequency of your mains, either 60/50 hz depending in what part of the world you live in.

 

[Curbcalamity]

That has to do with UV exposure, not the type of ballast technology.

Also, while I'm thinking about it, in regards to post #4: C&C ballasts are "low frequency."

actually, it has to do with the glass being so hot that the ambient air temperature is cold enough to cause them to crack under thermal shock... that's why your not supposed to use air-cooled reflectors or cool tubes with them either. the UV exposure is a great thing about them why would you not want that?

nah they're def not safe to look at within proper sunglasses on at least. I come out seeing spots if I look up at them by accident - which happens way more often than it should be happening..... that's with jacketed bulbs. but glass does absorb about 30% and sorry I got it I mixed up in my head they're low freq compared to other digital ballasts which go as high as 100K herz but C&C ballasts have soooooo many downsides i don't even know where to being really..

 

[Curbcalamity]

oh and the ballasts. magnetic ballasts are roughly 5% less efficient. produce more percentage of heat, fluctuate the level of power as no mains is 100% stable V or frequency and they are a proportional step-up/down from your mains. they also produce Radio frequency interference - I can't actually think of any benefits to them except that they cant malfunction like a solid-state transformer, but this is an unrealistic thing to worry about. At the end of the day a ballast is really just producing artificial resistance to the circuit to counteract the ohms law effect of negative resistance (plasma has negative resistance causing more amps to be drawn until the power supply fails or the circuit is broken - and since our lights are a tiny lightning bolt in special quartz or ceramic tube housed within a special gas atmosphere that intensifies the light, this is bad and dangerous - but remember im aussie, so its like, 45c with 15% RH so fires don't mess about) i know like, digital fluro ballasts are like 20000hz though. i think digital ballasts are a higher frequency to counteract the flicker effect. but i can't help but ask myself why even bother? I cant see any benefits to magnetic ballasts since they don't put out a better light in any way?

 

[Curbcalamity]

As I understand it unless the outer jacket of the bulb is compromised the UV emitted is relatively safe. Of course you don't want to be staring at the bulb. Always a good idea I suppose to use a reflector with a glass shield as a extra precaution.

And a core and coil ballast frequency would match the frequency of your mains, either 60/50 hz depending in what part of the world you live in.

oh get a true RMS meter and you'll see no where does the frequency actually sit at 50 or 60 herz its always under, same with voltage. i have 231-221V depending on which PowerPoint in my house i check...

 

[NewToTHC]

Agree with all your comments, just a couple add ons, the UV emitted by a CMH as I understand it is desirable as that's one of the selling points I presume, BUT you don't want to risk a cracked bulb, or not knowing you have a cracked bulb as the UV emitted is in the danger.. danger zone. Other hobby was reef aquariums and I have seem the damage a cracked MH bulb can do to a coral aquarium with the UV exposure. Double ended bulbs were popular for a while in the reef aquarium hobby but NEVER run them without a shielded glass enclosure to filter out the UV. Actually I believe plastics are better at filtering out UV, but can't take the temperatures. There is some special glass designed to filter out UV more effectively than regular glass, but not something we would not be interested in as we want some for the bud development.,

Interesting about the cooling and cracking and can see that, again a real issue when using MH bulbs in a aquarium with water. I may be wrong but the older mercury vapour bulbs were extremely dangerous if ran with a cracked outer glass as the uv emitted was very high, but usually they were on the top of a stadium roof so one would be out of the danger zone.

Agree electronic ballasts are heads above magnetic, except when it comes to reliability and cost. I suppose if paying for a quality electronic ballast that may be negligible, but many of the commonly purchased hobby type ballasts are quality/ bad design and not rated for years of use, again learned that lesson from the reef aquarium side of things. A magnetic ballast rarely fails, and if it does it's usually just the capacitor or ignitor giving up the ghost. Again going back to my other hobby there was a well known digital ballast in the day (Oddysea if I recall) that was prone to catching on fire, poor design with underrated components. get what you pay for.

Electronic ballast/switched mode power supply design is quite interesting, basically the high frequency switching negates the use of a heavy large transformer to regulate the current or voltage, much, much more to it, but basically why you can have a thumb sized charger for your phone that can output 1/2 a amp vs a baseball sized sized using a core and coil ballast from back in the day. Anyhow getting off topic.....

Cheers

 

[Curbcalamity]

Then why are they vacuum jackets? The only reason open fixture bulbs are rated so is because they have a vacuum to protect the inside glass.... Atleast that's what nanolux told me was the difference....phillips got REALLY nosey the second I finished stating the product I'd number they were just like "why are you asking about those bulbs?"


Ya wah solid state transformers are pretty amazing if you understand what they're actually achieving. Problem with them being constantly connected though with large loads. Things melt stupidly fast...

but please go ahead and put an unjacketed CMH in a cool tube and see what happens, id be curious to see how long it holds out and in a cool tube you shouldn't risk any fire either so I'm not asking you to burn your house down that be uncool

 

[TorturedSoul]

The only reason open fixture bulbs are rated so is because they have a vacuum to protect the inside glass.

(Again,) no, it isn't. It's about the UV output. Stick an unjacketed metal halide bulb (ceramic or not) into an open fixture, and your safe exposure time under it when it is running is measurable in seconds.

For example, one 315 W Ceramic Metal Halide (CMH) lamp is specified as producing 3.45 mW/cm² of UVA, 0.01 mW/cm² of UVB, and 0.03 mW/cm² of UVC. The latter irradiance value is equivalent to 0.3 W/m² and according to the NIOSH/ACGIH limits of exposure this would limit the time of exposure to 100 seconds.

cool tube and see what happens, id be curious to see how long it holds out

It's fine in such an application. Don't get a hot bulb wet, though.

 

[NewToTHC]

(Again,) no, it isn't. It's about the UV output. Stick an unjacketed metal halide bulb (ceramic or not) into an open fixture, and your safe exposure time under it when it is running is measurable in seconds.





It's fine in such an application. Don't get a hot bulb wet, though.

Not sure why there is a

 

[NewToTHC]

Curbcalamity said:
cool tube and see what happens, id be curious to see how long it holds out

I don't plan on running a CMH in a cool tube, but can't see why one couldn't. What makes the CMH bulb so susceptible that the outer jacket would crack/shatter. Can't see the construction of the bulb any different then the plethora of MH/HPS bulbs that are used extensively in commercial and hobby grows in cooled tubes. I suppose there may be a issue if the hot bulb was hit by a ice cold stream of refrigerated air.

Dr. Kowalski's aerobiological engineering report said:
For example, one 315 W Ceramic Metal Halide (CMH) lamp is specified as producing 3.45 mW/cm² of UVA, 0.01 mW/cm² of UVB, and 0.03 mW/cm² of UVC. The latter irradiance value is equivalent to 0.3 W/m² and according to the NIOSH/ACGIH limits of exposure this would limit the time of exposure to 100 seconds.

Interesting about the UV exposure limits. I assume this is report is specifying a properly functioning undamaged bulb?. I know plastics generally have UV inhibitors but wonder what the constant exposure would do to the interior plastic /mylar parts of a tent let alone any of the electrical wires over time?

 

[Curbcalamity]

That has to do with UV exposure, not the type of ballast technology.

Also, while I'm thinking about it, in regards to post #4: C&C ballasts are "low frequency."

youre corrrect onthe ballasts, but then you need multiple lighting set ups for the one room right"?