Member of the Year: 2015 & 2016 - Member of the Month: Mar 2015, Sept 2016 - Nug of the Month: Oct 2017 - Creme de la Creme Photos: Dec 2016
Kicknitup1 said:Best Practices
Cannabutter/Oil Extraction Methods,For Terpene and Cannabinoid Retention
Hi everyone! This is our version of a sing-along. A couple of the members will soon be running some lab tests on an extraction process with coconut oil. The goal is to lab profile the starting material and then lab test at several points along the way. We wil be looking for terpene retention and extraction efficiency.
We are asking anyone to post any lab results you may have involving an oil solvent extraction (Olive, Coconut, Butter, etc). Your experience may guide us with the test points. Have you encountered any mysteries? Start out with 500 mg THC and end up with 200 mg? Potency increase/decrease next day? What disasters have you had? Show us the way...to the opposite direction! LOL. Success stories always welcome. Both are beneficial.
So basically, we will help you solve your riddles while you guide us around our upcoming ones. Then we will share our results when complete. Should be some eye-opening stuff, don't you think? We are particularly interested in info on Nightmare Cookies.
Let's have some fun and learn along the way.
One of the most frustrating parts of producing potent cannabis oils and products is understanding the decarboxylation process. How long is optimal for THC conversion? CBD conversion? How long is too long? What's being destroyed? What makes it through? Are there ways to manage the decarb for a more varied cannabinoid and terpene profile?
We now understand that the terpenes direct the action of the cannabinoids. This means it's the terpenes that define the effect. THC and CBD are a power couple of cannabinoids, but terpenes tell them how to apply that power. We can assume this happy partnership carries over to what we call "minor cannabinoids," the ones we simply haven't studied as closely.
Knowing this, it becomes advantageous to retain as much of the volitile terpene profile as possible, within reason, and we've dedicated a couple brainstorming threads to creating cannabis and cannabis products that have a more pronounced terpene profile.
Most of us are kitchen alchemist, happily turning our beloved plants into potent oils or butters for culinary and medicinal uses. Getting the decarb correct is of great importance when you're going to introduce cannabinoids through the gut. If your medical needs call for a high THC medicine you want to be reasonably certain you're getting maximum decarboxylation of THCa. The same can be said for CBDa.
A pair of our members, Canyon and Kicknitup1, will be joining forces for a few days next month and do their best to get at least some of the basic questions about decarbing answered. Here's a further breakdown of what they plan to do during this adventure, in Kicknitup's own words: (I did some formatting )
Canyon is generously providing the residence for the testing project to be carried out, and he's graciously included some of his magnificent produce in the package, assuring a final product of high quality. I'll let him explain his part in this enterprise in his own words.Kicknitup1 said:Let's see.
short version, verify, verify, verify. lol
We will know the properties of the starting mtl
Then I will compare decarb results between the jar in oven & Nova (oven will be 15 min jar warm up and then 1 hr decarb @ 240f & cool down). (or 220f if there is a consensus but I think 240 is the #) via lab test.
Then determine optimum extraction times. Testing @ 1hr, 1.5 hr & 2 hr, &... (6 hr because High Times thinks so) @150-165f. Personally, I bet you have almost all @ 2 hr. (testing will be with tcheck until we get to the final, then lab).
Then compare properties that made it into the oil vs starting mtl
I had planned on doing a terpene test on the oil unless we find out beforehand that terpenes just will not be there.
Also check efficiency of extraction by comparing oil labs to starting mtl labs.
For once we will know with no bias from someone selling a product what makes it into the oil & at what efficiency.
I will be verifying the accuracy of the tcheck also.
These tests will be with LSL & coconut oil. Not using olive for this. I had rather stick with what I know for the testing. As far as testing, there should be no difference for olive oil results.
Then we will do our own verification...by eating them. Haven't heard much about Canyon's wife yet but assuming she's on board, we will have a 3 person panel...of happy judges. I individually dose these things so everyone can hit their comfort level.
* verify starting mtl
* verify decarb
* verify extraction optimums
* verify equipment reliability
* Verify oil quality from 2 kinds of decarb
We have lab results of the beginning plant material. Canyon sent this sample to the lab with a friend who confused the name of the specimen. That explains Canyon's notation that the specimen had been tested as Extreme OG.Canyon said:We started setting up this project about three weeks ago. So far I have set aside around two oz of low-n-slow dried Nightmare Cookies. I took the best nine colas, then took the top 6 or 7 inches of them and discarded the least impressive buds to help keep a consistent potency. (Well they did not go in the trash.) Then, I chose parts of buds from 4 colas. Each one was chosen from further down the stem. The lab ground them up and homogenized it before testing. Those tests are back.
My contribution will be the material, a spare bedroom and access to a testing lab.
The main focus of this round will be Kicknitup's project. However, I hope to put his tCheck to good use while he is here.
I do not know if the timing will work but I would like to do some work with fresh harvest oil. The plant may be in the frig by then though.
Another mystery that I want to explore is, will the higher boiling points in a pressure cooker reduce terpene loss or will the heat degrade it at the same rate as an oven decarb?
The first day that we will actually take over my wife’s kitchen will be August 16th and we will run tests through the 20st. The idea is to use the lead time to solicit ideas and information from anyone who wants to participate and incorporate those into what we are doing if we can.
Our hope, as articulated by both participants, is to generate any input that you think might help them avoid wasting their time with tests you already know aren't worth it, or questions you'd like to see answered. This is but the beginning of the exploration, and the powerful way we brainstorm on this site offers great potential to get decarb nailed down so that we can proceed with our potent infused oils, edibles, and butters, secure in the knowledge that we're coming close to the mark.
So, how can we help you, and how can you help our intrepid lab rats? Feel free to jump into the conversation. There are no guidelines other than respectful participation, one of the hallmarks of our wonderful site.
And again, any information you might have on Nightmare Cookies will be greatly appreciated.
We can't start a thread without some pretty pictures, can we? A couple shots of the sacrificial lamb, Canyon's recently harvested Nightmare Cookies.