Decoding The Holy Grail: Terpene & Cannabinoid Retention: Decarb to Extraction

[InTheShed]

In terms of the holy grail, I'd say it is still waiting to be discovered. Without much cheaper testing options to be able to run multiple tests on multiple batches of flowers decarbed at various times, temps, and ways, we are still at a loss for answers.

That said, it's still a great thread filled with excellent information!

 

[bebecillo]

That's exactly why I'm asking for a condensed version, guides or anything for the rest of us to try. Even if it's not scientific, at least follow best practices.

I learned water curing in this forum and was able to produce homerun blunts with any weed, would love to help the community trying new stuff.

 

[Bucudinkydow]

Hey, I'm too lazy to read all the pages. Can anyone give me a rundown? Are there guides or methods based on the info in this thread? Thanks in advance.

A legitimate question deserving of a legitimate answer. Unfortunately, as evidenced by the lack of a substantive response, I’ll have to agree with InTheShed; the holy grail is of yet still elusive.

Despite the noble efforts of many participants here, there’s little more than educated hypothesis at this point. In many cases, even comparison lab reports are inconsistent I.E. higher terpene content contained in processed samples than non processed samples. There is, however, a tremendous amount of food for thought here and well worth the read.

Here’s a couple of opinions I’ll offer (and we all know about opinions so proceed with caution):

1. The parameters for proficient decarb are far wider than we are led to believe. There are just too many variables to say a single time or temp can be attached to all decarb circumstances. Atmospheric conditions such as ambient temps, relative humidity, atmospheric pressure, etc. can induce variables in the utopian decarb formula. Also, moisture content, varying cannabinoids in different strains and age of flower can cause inconsistencies. I’ve seen far too many lab reports showing excellent results using vastly diverse procedures to accept that there’s a single formula that is the ultimate procedure for all circumstances. So, are we chasing something that doesn’t exist?!? Hmmmmm.

2. I’m a firm believer that the more we manipulate this plant through thermal and chemical procedures involved in extractions and infusions, the more of the “goodness” we’re probably losing. I can only imagine what we’re throwing out with the “trash” when we discard the byproducts from these procedures. There are still mysteries to be discovered about cannabis. Just last week, the University of Salento in Italy announced the discovery of 2 new cannabinoids; THCP and CBDP I think. They’re touting THCP is 30X more potent than THC but I’d like to look past simple headlines prior to buying into this.

Following this train of thought, for the past few months, I’ve been using a K.I.S.S. procedure of preparation that has resulted in a surprisingly effective product for oral ingestion.

Just decarb, grind to a fine powder and eat a tad! It offers a gentle onset in 15-45 minutes (variables actually seem to be sometimes strain related) with a linear ramp up to an enjoyable peak at about the 5 hour mark with noticeable positive effects as long as 8 hours after ingestion. The strain personalities seem much more prevalent with this modality than previous experiences with tinctures and infusions. And an amazingly small amount is required for my needs.

Just mindless ramblings from an ol’ fat man FWIW!!

BCDD

 

[bebecillo]

Great answer!

I agree with most of what you said, but i believe processing cannabis in a respectful way helps us achieve great goals. In my case i can make edibles for my gf without salad taste, and thanks to this thread i ventured into making cbd oil for elderly people and injured sportsmen.

I will share my methods and recipes, i just need to wait until i get my next harvest to have something to work with.


Greetings

 

[dr.h00k]

...another thread you might find interesting, if you haven't already seen it...

Tangwena's Malawi-Style Cob Cure: Fermented Cannabis

Since my first buzz at the age of 22 I've been searching for an elusive euphoric experience, one that connected me to a deeper awareness, insight, and hallucinatory inspiration one might more often attribute to ceremony than recreation. After years of dreaming, and following three years of...

www.420magazine.com

it's rather lengthy, and one doesn't have to start at the beginning...cheerz... ...h00k......

 

[SweetSue]

Following this train of thought, for the past few months, I’ve been using a K.I.S.S. procedure of preparation that has resulted in a surprisingly effective product for oral ingestion.

Just decarb, grind to a fine powder and eat a tad! It offers a gentle onset in 15-45 minutes (variables actually seem to be sometimes strain related) with a linear ramp up to an enjoyable peak at about the 5 hour mark with noticeable positive effects as long as 8 hours after ingestion. The strain personalities seem much more prevalent with this modality than previous experiences with tinctures and infusions. And an amazingly small amount is required for my needs.

Just mindless ramblings from an ol’ fat man FWIW!!

BCDD

Nothing mindless about that BCDD, and that you for the wonderful attempt at an answer.

And thank you as well for the endorsement to ingest simple powder of decarbed weed. I was just putting together a short picture tutorial on the subject of decarbing and mentioned how easy it was to simply eat the decarbed buds.

I like the idea of grinding into a powder. I do that with cobs. How much do you think you take at a time?

 

[SweetSue]

THCP may be 30 x stronger, but in all likelihood THC volumes make the new cannabinoid seem invisible in comparison. Most minor cannabinoids are in minuscule volumes in the essential oils of a full plant extraction.

 

[Bucudinkydow]

Nothing mindless about that BCDD, and that you for the wonderful attempt at an answer.

And thank you as well for the endorsement to ingest simple powder of decarbed weed. I was just putting together a short picture tutorial on the subject of decarbing and mentioned how easy it was to simply eat the decarbed buds.

I like the idea of grinding into a powder. I do that with cobs. How much do you think you take at a time?

Thanx, Sue. Refreshing to hear someone else has discovered this simple and effective method of ingestion. It’s been lonely in my closet!

Proper dosage has been a bit of a problem because of the minute amount required. I shared the secret on another forum and a member ingested a size 1 gel cap and started to work. It became so overwhelming that he turned around prior to arriving at work and struggled to make it back home. He got a little gruff with me but I had cautioned to be frugal with the dosage!

I’ve been simply moistening my finger, dipping it into the pot and licking it off (much more pleasurable experience if you do this prior to picking your nose or scratching your ass). I tried my newly harvested Honduras for the first time yesterday and the same amount I’d been using for other strains became problematic with this new harvest. I had a dinner engagement last night, 10 hours after ingestion, and I still didn’t feel comfortable enough to drive! I’ve got to come up with a method of properly measuring minute amounts. Any suggestions? How do you measure your dosage?

Would be interested in your tutorial on the subject. Please post a link as it develops.

Thanx
BCDD

 

[SweetSue]

Thanx, Sue. Refreshing to hear someone else has discovered this simple and effective method of ingestion. It’s been lonely in my closet!

Proper dosage has been a bit of a problem because of the minute amount required. I shared the secret on another forum and a member ingested a size 1 gel cap and started to work. It became so overwhelming that he turned around prior to arriving at work and struggled to make it back home. He got a little gruff with me but I had cautioned to be frugal with the dosage!

I’ve been simply moistening my finger, dipping it into the pot and licking it off (much more pleasurable experience if you do this prior to picking your nose or scratching your ass). I tried my newly harvested Honduras for the first time yesterday and the same amount I’d been using for other strains became problematic with this new harvest. I had a dinner engagement last night, 10 hours after ingestion, and I still didn’t feel comfortable enough to drive! I’ve got to come up with a method of properly measuring minute amounts. Any suggestions? How do you measure your dosage?

Would be interested in your tutorial on the subject. Please post a link as it develops.

Thanx
BCDD

I simply dip my finger in and go too. For a while I was carefully weighing out 0.2 grams on the scale. As the cobs cure linger they become more and more potent, so I went to the wet finger approach and stopped weighing, and like you, I get very inconsistent response.

I personally haven’t tried this method, but I will and I’ll document the process of developing a proper regimen. I’ll take this challenge to the Study Hall and see who else wants to join.

@Oldbear has championed this regimen method for years now. He has a thread where he was working it all out.

 

[SweetSue]

@AKgramma has also done this microdosing method, of sorts. She dries and naturally cures her buds and sprinkles into her foods.

I haven’t heard from her in months now. I left a note on her last journal, so maybe she’ll notice and join this conversation.

 

[Bucudinkydow]

Thanx, Sue. Will definitely check out the links to like-minded members’ experiences.

 

[InTheShed]

She dries and naturally cures her buds and sprinkles into her foods.

So she's more the THCa type and you and Buc are more the THC type .

 

[SweetSue]

So she's more the THCa type and you and Buc are more the THC type .

 

[Kicknitup1]

Hi all,
I was reading the last entries about what we accomplished. Good observations all. But we did learn a lot. The first thing I learned was that we were leaving more thc behind than I expected. Decarb? Well we proved the Nova does a good job. Perfect decarb? nah. It'll be off different every time no matter what method you use. I think the safe road is to stay at reasonable temps and go a bit longer rather than shorter on time. We proved that EVOO is not a very aggressive solvent. But an adequate & healthy one. (well someone else proved EVOO was healthy...LMAO, but you get the pic). By seeing how much was left behind, we knew to amp up our extractions, which I have found ways to do. We saw a guideline for what to expect with terpene retention. Basically, what we accomplished was setting a baseline within a reasonable margin of error of expectations of all mentioned plus yield after waste.

Discovered the holy grail? nope. But it sure set some parameters and got a lot of bright people looking into the shortcomings of the existing extraction methods. I have made progress although most of my time in the past year was spent in parallel studies. It all ties together in the end.

What we did not do well was a summary which was mentioned. There was too much of a rush to get the test results up. And I never got back to it. I have more to share and I will. But lately, I have been picking the brains of others, some of which are contributing still to this thread, about all things mj plant- grow, rosin (yum), bho vs co2 vs ETOH. And thanks to all!

 

[Kicknitup1]

One of the reasons we advocate growing your own or knowing who grows for you. Someday it'll be common practice to have a cannabis garden in the house. People won't question it, they'll assume.

My thinking is that if a little chlorophyll was all we needed it wouldn't be necessary to eat so many green veggies. Lol.

So it's I soluable in water, eh? Then why do we winterize and freeze the wash when making CCO? I was operating under the impression that removing chlorophyll was one of the reasons for winterization

Hi SweetSue!
I was just checking back on some info & paused on this again. Long time ago I know so maybe you have already checked into this.... But I ran across this quote that made good sense...
" The green chlorophyll with which we are all familiar is not soluble in water, at all. The major reason for this is that the molecule contains other elements, including magnesium. If the stuff was soluble, it could leach away in rain, or be washed out of leaves by the movement of the plant’s sap. "
I think the deal with winterization is that by freezing the material, you lock up the chlorophyll. Have done minimal research on the winter thing though. The green is DEFINITELY soluble in ETOH. As far as I know, once in the ETOH, it can be reduced but impractical to remove. UGG. But if someone knows different........tell me baby.

 

[InTheShed]

I'm curious what the downside of chlorophyll is in the final product. Is it the fact that it adds the green flavor? Or that it distorts the final percentage of THC because of the added weight if you're doing exacting dosing calculations?

I have always doubted that bleaching it out by leaving the bottles in the sun does anything but take the color out rather than remove it from the actual wash. Bleaching a stained tea cup doesn't remove the tea oils, it just removes the color.

 

[TorturedSoul]

I learned at about eight years of age that the best way to remove stains (et al) from a teacup was to simply dampen a paper towel with really hot water - and wipe.

That won't work with chlorophyll, lol. Find a solvent that it's soluble in but the material you wish to keep isn't. Or vice versa. If there are none, it gets... tricky. So hope you can, I suppose.

 

[Bucudinkydow]

I'm curious what the downside of chlorophyll is in the final product. Is it the fact that it adds the green flavor? Or that it distorts the final percentage of THC because of the added weight if you're doing exacting dosing calculations?

I have always doubted that bleaching it out by leaving the bottles in the sun does anything but take the color out rather than remove it from the actual wash. Bleaching a stained tea cup doesn't remove the tea oils, it just removes the color.


Chlorophyll has long been regarded as a beneficial supplement. I remember my grandmother (and you’d have to look to the first half of last century to find my DOB so granny’s day was a long long time ago) religiously ingested wheat grass as a a source of chlorophyll. If I remember correctly it’s a good source of vitamin A, C, K and several minerals and antioxidants. The down side is the fact it can cause stomach cramping and possibly diarrhea in some. Probably the reasoning for removal from cannabis concoctions is the undesirable taste.

 

[Kicknitup1]

Pretty sure the only downside is harsher smoke...and a tiny bit of weight to subtract ( I wouldn't try. Some other guess will be further off than that.). If you are doing edibles and the taste is not overly bad, ignore it.

Im trying to clean up some really black green stuff now. Still looking, but I found no way to remove it completely that was reasonable. Carbon & dia-something clay gets it, but then ya gotta get that filtered out.

Sun- I would not. Only removes color & degrades the good stuff.

I'll let you know my results.

 

[Kicknitup1]

For edibles, as long as there is not so much green as to make it bitter, which is tough to hide, I wouldn't worry about it.

Back there talking about carbon filters & such, I was thinking an ETOH extraction. Not about EVOO. Sorry.