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Deficiency in blooming stage

masterchi

New Member
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Is this a magnesium or sulphur deficiency? My ph was stable in veg until a couple of week into bloom the ph began to drop from 5.7 to 5.3 every day....so im using a recirculating dwc with aeroponic spray.
 

Serpent

New Member
Ya with the PH being out of whack the plants are paying for it now but it may be a little hard to fix but hey we can try. How many weeks flowering are you in and what type of cannabis plants is it some plants can take more frits then others
 

masterchi

New Member
Ya with the PH being out of whack the plants are paying for it now but it may be a little hard to fix but hey we can try. How many weeks flowering are you in and what type of cannabis plants is it some plants can take more frits then others

Its dutch passion think different auto haze week three or something?
Im wondering why the sudden ph drops when bloom begins? In veg i had the ph at 5.6 because it went up to 5.7 or 5.8 per day or two so im trying ph 6.1 so it can drop to 5.6~7....see if it works well i got myself some magnesium sulphate and did some foliar spray bit dont really see any difference. Only the fan leaves connected to bud sites little bit above are affected...the leaves under seem to be normal i did some low stress training by the way its one plant under a 160w growsun led. So i dont really expect huge buds.
 

Serpent

New Member
How big is the reservoir with small reservoirs the water can spike constantly because it's so small. With a larger DWC the waters more stabilized but what temperature is your water at wonky temperature will throw your PH out,how big is your reservoir
 

Papageno

Well-Known Member
You also have way too much nitrogen in there bro. At least you got to stage 4 of nitrogen toxicity at some point. Maybe that is in the past as it never goes away.

In the first two pics there are a ton of clawed and tip drooping leaves stages 2 and 3.

In the third in the back you see a fan leave that has yellow edges. That is the 4th stage of nitrogen toxicity. But I am betting all that was in the past.

You do have a few other issues that are deficiencies. So if you are feeding some normal complex fertilizer product there is an uptake problem likely due to pH as suggested.

In a healthy res a dropping pH is not uncommon if the nutes are low. Can you post your res measurements for the past few days?

pH, PPM, Temps, how much has been added as top off and PPM of top off.

3 days of that info taken at the same time and we can figure out what is going on.

How do the root look and smell?

As previously asked what is the res size? Is it s single plant in a single res? Are you using a sterile or living res?

Drop those details and we can fix this...well sort of ...it is in bloom so we can only do so much at this stage. But we can get the rest of bloom to be happy.

:thumb:
 

masterchi

New Member
You also have way too much nitrogen in there bro. At least you got to stage 4 of nitrogen toxicity at some point. Maybe that is in the past as it never goes away.

In the first two pics there are a ton of clawed and tip drooping leaves stages 2 and 3.

In the third in the back you see a fan leave that has yellow edges. That is the 4th stage of nitrogen toxicity. But I am betting all that was in the past.

You do have a few other issues that are deficiencies. So if you are feeding some normal complex fertilizer product there is an uptake problem likely due to pH as suggested.


In a healthy res a dropping pH is not uncommon if the nutes are low. Can you post your res measurements for the past few days?

pH, PPM, Temps, how much has been added as top off and PPM of top off.

3 days of that info taken at the same time and we can figure out what is going on.

How do the root look and smell?

As previously asked what is the res size? Is it s single plant in a single res? Are you using a sterile or living res?

Alright....im using a modified aerofarm from GHE so the capacity is 45liters, but i have around 25 liters res water that is sterile and im using a all in one nutrient for bloom. So i dont have a ec meter because i never exceed the recommended 1ml per liter water but im prepared to get an ec meter. The aerofarm is connected to a waterchiller that keeps the res temp to 18~19 degrees celsius. The ph was still dropping in these 3 days but not so much as a week ago my routine everyday is just checking ph and adding tap water till the res is almost full. Then i do a total res change. Ive added some epsom salt in the res and it seems to slow down the rapid ph change.
The roots are a bit yellow and it smells like rubber or plastic.

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Btw....the hydroshop guy told me i could use this nute from veg to bloom so i guess somewhere im doing something totally wrong.
 

Papageno

Well-Known Member
Yeah there are a few issues but the biggest one I think is you are following instructions for concentrations used when doing things perfectly using pro equipment and in a controlled environment.

There is not enough space on the bottle to make a recommendation for every type of grower out there. The recipe is for people doing things "right" . Now there are a lot of great ways to grow but if you don't have great temps and humidity and air circulation and a big ass light then you need to cut back. The nutes do not make the plant grow. The plant uses nutes to support the internal building processes that the results of photosynthesis. Adding more nutes then the plant can use causes burn or other things. So if you don't have a great number of fan leaves in great conditions you have reduced photosynthesis and need to drop the nutes.

This is why in the beginning the plant needs way less nute concentration and as it grows it needs more. When it had 8 leaves it is doing a lot less work then when it has 100 leaves.

I will past a chart below with a lot of data and think about what it is showing you. The EC and pH recommendations change a lot throughout the grow based on nutrient uptake needs. Also there are different needs in veg and bloom. Using a bloom nute in veg can work but is not good. I have seen many get away with it but that is not good.

:peace:

Did I read correctly that you are dumping the res daily?

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masterchi

New Member
Did I read correctly that you are dumping the res daily?
First of all thank you very much for your advice and i think ill just get a ec meter just to be sure what the nute density is in the res water.....im not changing the res water daily. When i started in veg the ph was a lot more stable like ph5.6 per 2 days and i actually changed the whole res after 1 month or so until i encountered the sudden ph drops 1 week or so into bloom so maybe ive should have done more res water change. I also only have ph down so im wondering if ph up will help in my situation. Ah well this is my second plant so i guess its inevitable learning moments so im going to get a veg nute or changing my brand to advanced nutrients? Like sensi bloom?
 

Papageno

Well-Known Member
ehhhh blah

pH drop in early bloom is common. You need more Phos and Potasium. Look into a product called MOAB. It is only phos and potassium (and much cheaper then competitors stuff that is the same).

As for pH up you should be using another product called silica. Every company makes some and it is very high in pH. So use that as your UP becasue you need to be putting it in there regularly. You can follow the instructions and only use it like once a week or you can use a little every time to adjust your top off or res and then you are good to go. It comes with some good Potassium in it as well so it is very good stuff to add in bloom. people tend to stop adding it becasue one of the reasons to add it is to make strong stalks to hold up to big flowers but the stalks double in bloom and the fresh ones that are actually holding the flowers are formed and need silica so use it the whole time until flush.

:48:
 

masterchi

New Member
As for pH up you should be using another product called silica. Every company makes some and it is very high in pH.

Very interesting i never knew you needed pottasium silicate for bloom, silica is very abundant in the earths crust and also found on cannabis plants...i guess i was way too naive to think one all in one nute was enough. I think im going to get canna PK 13-14 as you suggested to add more (P)phosphor and (K)kalium or potassium.
 

Papageno

Well-Known Member
See that is the thing. It is supper abundant in nature but not in fertilizer bottles. I have looked and not found a good way to get it from a homemade cheaper way. It is a "necessary" building block. I put quotes because you can grow weak cannabis without it. But you can grow great cannabis with it.

It is very alkaline which may be why it is bottled separately. I have accidentally added too much and bam all the ferts precipitate out of solution.

But you can't find a knowledgeable grower not using it in an indoor grow. Even in soil it is of great use.
 

masterchi

New Member
See that is the thing. It is supper abundant in nature but not in fertilizer bottles. I have looked and not found a good way to get it from a homemade cheaper way. It is a "necessary" building block. I put quotes because you can grow weak cannabis without it. But you can grow great cannabis with it.

It is very alkaline which may be why it is bottled separately. I have accidentally added too much and bam all the ferts precipitate out of solution.

But you can't find a knowledgeable grower not using it in an indoor grow. Even in soil it is of great use.

Its kinda difficult to get potassium silicate from where i am i can get aptus regulator though or rhino skin...or BAC silica im not sure only if its the same silicate we are talking about because there are a lot of other versions of potassium forms. Anyway the hydroguy this time i went to another store so they actually told me i was missing calcium so i got a bottle of canna calcium and a bottle of ph+ . Ill see if it works on my next plant if not then ill switch to aptus. So i guess calcium was the culprit because im using led so the all in one nute i was using didnt have calcium....which resulted that the epsom salt didnt respond well because magnesium needs calcium. I also got a ec pen and it was ec 1.0....so i added more base nute and calcium to ec 1.4. The ph still drops only not to dangerous levels under 5.5 so im adding every night and morning some ph up to 5.9. Ec seems to stay the same today and yesterday ec 1.4
 

Papageno

Well-Known Member
All of that is good stuff. I don't use pH UP I use Silica.

The issues you had shown we pH related as was stated and one of the first things to fail when that happens is Calcium. But putting Calcium in a situation where the pH is off doesn't help a heck of a lot. You need to fix the problem.

If you are filtering your water or if you have very good water (like I have) you need to be adding back Calcium and Magnesium. But the images you first showed have a lot more wrong then just that. When Multiple things are failing it is commonly due to pH being out of the good range.

:Namaste:
 

FuzzyNugz

New Member
See that is the thing. It is supper abundant in nature but not in fertilizer bottles. I have looked and not found a good way to get it from a homemade cheaper way. It is a "necessary" building block. I put quotes because you can grow weak cannabis without it. But you can grow great cannabis with it.

It is very alkaline which may be why it is bottled separately. I have accidentally added too much and bam all the ferts precipitate out of solution.

But you can't find a knowledgeable grower not using it in an indoor grow. Even in soil it is of great use.

I Always add silica first for that reason so the nutes don't precipitate out of the solution.


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FuzzyNugz

New Member
Your issue can also lie in the tap water you said you're using, especially if you don't have an EC or TDS meter to measure your tap water to see how much dissolve solids are already in it. Use RO or Distilled water but make sure to supplement it with CalMag or Or whatever calcium magnesium supplement you like, plants need these to facilitate other chemical processes and is usually what makes most of the solids in tap water, just usually at too high of levels with other unknowns solids on top. I know this is late but hopefully it will still help you somehow.


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