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Deficiency or disease

RoyC

Member
I posted this in introduce myself but thort I'd post here to, im not sure on strain hybrid of some sort, have 12 in coco, 1.2x1.2x2m tent, 1000w air cooled hood, 24 °C at the mo, use house and garden to there chart, 1 week into flower, runoff ph normal, the problem happened last grow when i had thrip infestation witch took me awhile to sort out, got rid off them but the left abit of damage and had a few scale bugs to, after that the leaves started turning yellow then brown then dying, thort it was just because they were quite damaged but it seemed to spread, then I noticed the next babies in now started yellowing and dying especially if the leaf damage or had a little rip in it now it's just speading rapidly, yellowing from tip of leaf in to stem and others from stem of leaf to tip, curling leaves and weird growth, there are no visible pests, I tryed peroxide 3% spray over foliage i think left the yellow patches red like rust, have now used fungus and bacteria spray and have been constantly removing any yellowing leaf, still early days for fungus spray but I think it still speading, I've noticed outside around our house there seems to be similar damage on certain plants and weeds and the local plant nursery said he had rust, I can't seem to figure this one out, it's just weird its carried on to the next lot and haven't changed medium or nutrient, clones are from the same 3 or 4 different mothers which make me think its disease from thrips, is it a type of rust, bacteria, fungus, tiny bug I can't see or deficiency, thanks for any help ya have, here's some photos but because I keep removing lots of leaf can't really see the different yellowing characteristics which is confusing deficiency diagnosis
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Old Salt

Member of the Year: 2019 - Member of the Month: Apr, Nov 2019
I think you are seeing a magnesium deficiency. What is the pH of your nutrient solution? Are you running drain-to-waste, or another method?
 

RoyC

Member
I think you are seeing a magnesium deficiency. What is the pH of your nutrient solution? Are you running drain-to-waste, or another method?
Thanks for the reply, I appreciate the time and help you guys put into this forum.
Not sure what method I'm using drain to waste, here's some photos of what I think you mean,
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also the nutrients I use, I haven't changed nutrient or coco brand, Canada professional plus coco, the clones are from same 4 mothers not sure what strains tho, im pretty sure they are all the same strain this time, so not sure why they would be deficient now but that's much better than a disease from thrip infestation, it's just weird it seemed to start after that the seemed to spread to the babies I had in separate veg box but in same area and they were in soil. which on a separate note is that bad to put the small pot they were in with soil into the big pot of coco, I know the nutrients are designed for coco and the soil probably has some nutrients in it, not ideal I know but it's only option at the mo, not sure if I can remove the soil before repotting without damaging the roots? Thanks for the help
 

RoyC

Member
Do you water until you get some coming out of the bottom of the pots at least once per day?
I must be doing something wrong because If i feed about a litre a plant and they won't need a feed for about 2 or 3 days depending on what week flower they are, in late flower 1ltr lasts 1 night roughly, that's to the coco just separates from edge of pot, just before the point they would start to droop, they are 6 litres pots and plants grow to about 60cm roughly, I turn to flower about 30cm, I've been told by a few people that I should be watering until it runs out the bottom so it get rid of unused nutrients or salts I believe but if I do that they can stay wet 5 days to a week depending what week flower/ size they are, I can't remember how long in late flower maybe3 to 4 days, is that to long between feeds? I use house and garden drip clean every feed that's ment to help flush, are my pots to big for hight of plants, I'm trying 12 plants about 60 cm turn about 30cm and pot size is 6 litre i use to have one size down 4.7 and 16 plants I think but I thought if I have bigger pot I could get bigger roots and bigger yield
 

Old Salt

Member of the Year: 2019 - Member of the Month: Apr, Nov 2019
I must be doing something wrong because If i feed about a litre a plant and they won't need a feed for about 2 or 3 days depending on what week flower they are, in late flower 1ltr lasts 1 night roughly, that's to the coco just separates from edge of pot, just before the point they would start to droop, they are 6 litres pots and plants grow to about 60cm roughly, I turn to flower about 30cm, I've been told by a few people that I should be watering until it runs out the bottom so it get rid of unused nutrients or salts I believe but if I do that they can stay wet 5 days to a week depending what week flower/ size they are, I can't remember how long in late flower maybe3 to 4 days, is that to long between feeds? I use house and garden drip clean every feed that's ment to help flush, are my pots to big for hight of plants, I'm trying 12 plants about 60 cm turn about 30cm and pot size is 6 litre i use to have one size down 4.7 and 16 plants I think but I thought if I have bigger pot I could get bigger roots and bigger yield

Have you added anything to the coco, other than an inert substance like perlite, or vermiculite? If not, you are running a drain-to-waste hydroponic system. You need to water about once per day during early veg, and that will increase to three or more times per day by the middle of flowering. The coco should never dry out with this system. In late flower my plants in 11l (3.8 gallon) grow bags are drinking about 1 liter or quart, three time per day. This gives me about 10% run off.

The coco should never be allowed to dry out. It can be difficult to re-hydrate the coco. If it's dry, the vast majority of your nutrient solution will drain from your pots, rather than being available for your plants. To properly re-hydrate the coco, submerge your pots in your nutrient solution for about 10 minutes.

If you have added soil, peat, or earthworm castings to your coco, you need to treat it like a soil grow, and let the mix dry out before watering again. The soil, peat, or earthworm castings will hold the water for your plants.
 

RoyC

Member
Have you added anything to the coco, other than an inert substance like perlite, or vermiculite? If not, you are running a drain-to-waste hydroponic system. You need to water about once per day during early veg, and that will increase to three or more times per day by the middle of flowering. The coco should never dry out with this system. In late flower my plants in 11l (3.8 gallon) grow bags are drinking about 1 liter or quart, three time per day. This gives me about 10% run off.

The coco should never be allowed to dry out. It can be difficult to re-hydrate the coco. If it's dry, the vast majority of your nutrient solution will drain from your pots, rather than being available for your plants. To properly re-hydrate the coco, submerge your pots in your nutrient solution for about 10 minutes.

If you have added soil, peat, or earthworm castings to your coco, you need to treat it like a soil grow, and let the mix dry out before watering again. The soil, peat, or earthworm castings will hold the water for your plants.
Thanks for explaining that, I was abit confused on the concept it's a form of hydro, I knew it was and thought it needed to dry out for the oxygen which I knew was just as important, I wont let them dry out now, so how do you know when to water? I don't add anything to the coco but at the moment the babies I get are a bit older and come in a little pot of soil unfortunately
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And I'm to scared of damaging the roots if crumble the soil off before I put them in the 6ltr pots of coco, can I gently remove the soil before repotting?
 

Old Salt

Member of the Year: 2019 - Member of the Month: Apr, Nov 2019
Changing your substrate from soil to coco is not a good idea. I'd try to finish the grow, up-potting with Fox Farm's Ocean Forest, or equivalent. Your plants will be set back a week or two at best, and you do stand a chance of losing them. If you decide to proceed, gently wash 1/2 to 3/4 of the soil away. This will minimize the root damage. Hold the roots up, except for the tap root, when you re-pot, add a layer of coco, drop some of the roots, add coco, drop more roots, and continue until done, Water the coco with a nutrient solution until run off. As you mention there is a pest or disease problem, that needs to be handled first to minimize the stress on your plants when you do this. Consider taking cuttings for clones rather than changing your substrate.

I'll get back to you later about how to grow in coco. I need to get some sleep.
 

RoyC

Member
Sleep I know how that is, only time I get to reply is at end of night and I'm slow at messaging so end up being late, thanks again for helping and giving so much knowledge, I didn't think about washing soil from roots, that's exactly what I was needing to do, so i just water no need to know when just as long as I keep the wet and heavy?
 

Old Salt

Member of the Year: 2019 - Member of the Month: Apr, Nov 2019
Coco is light and airy compared to soil, so it doesn't hold as much water and there's more air in the root zone. It also does not contain any plant food. Because of this it needs to be watered more often, and every watering must contain nutrients. once they are established I water to between 10% and 20% run off every time, both to ensure there is enough water, and to flush out the salts and unused nutrients, As seedlings and cuttings your plants can be over watered and drowned. Once the have am established root system you can no longer over water them.

Seedlings and cuttings don't use much water. I keep the coco damp, but do not water to run off until they are well established. I start by watering along the stem for the first few days for seedlings, and for cuttings until they start growing new foliage. This encourages the roots to grow down. Then I start watering around the edge of the container to encourage horizontal root growth. During this time, I don't water daily, only when the top of the coco where I watered starts to dry. The idea is to encourage the plant to develop roots through the entire substrate. This approach is the same as most soil growers use.

Once the top starts to dry daily, I start watering to run off daily. Three to four weeks in, I up pot into my final containers. I water around the edge daily to encourage the roots to fill the substrate. I use 11 liter containers, and it takes about 1/2 liter of my nutrient solution to get the run off of 10% and 20%. When 1/2 liter is no longer enough to get run off, I add a second watering about an hour before the lights go out, and the a third in the middle of the light period. After this increase the amount of water for each feeding to keep the run off at 10% and 20% until harvest. As i get close to harvest, the plants need less, and I reduce the amount, keeping the 10% and 20% run off.

The watering schedule is much more frequent than soil. I like being lazy, and work hard to keep it that way, so I designed and implemented an automatic watering system to do it for me. I'm now working on a second generation of my watering system, as it's a bit of a pain to adjust and balance the current one.
 

RoyC

Member
Coco is light and airy compared to soil, so it doesn't hold as much water and there's more air in the root zone. It also does not contain any plant food. Because of this it needs to be watered more often, and every watering must contain nutrients. once they are established I water to between 10% and 20% run off every time, both to ensure there is enough water, and to flush out the salts and unused nutrients, As seedlings and cuttings your plants can be over watered and drowned. Once the have am established root system you can no longer over water them.

Seedlings and cuttings don't use much water. I keep the coco damp, but do not water to run off until they are well established. I start by watering along the stem for the first few days for seedlings, and for cuttings until they start growing new foliage. This encourages the roots to grow down. Then I start watering around the edge of the container to encourage horizontal root growth. During this time, I don't water daily, only when the top of the coco where I watered starts to dry. The idea is to encourage the plant to develop roots through the entire substrate. This approach is the same as most soil growers use.

Once the top starts to dry daily, I start watering to run off daily. Three to four weeks in, I up pot into my final containers. I water around the edge daily to encourage the roots to fill the substrate. I use 11 liter containers, and it takes about 1/2 liter of my nutrient solution to get the run off of 10% and 20%. When 1/2 liter is no longer enough to get run off, I add a second watering about an hour before the lights go out, and the a third in the middle of the light period. After this increase the amount of water for each feeding to keep the run off at 10% and 20% until harvest. As i get close to harvest, the plants need less, and I reduce the amount, keeping the 10% and 20% run off.

The watering schedule is much more frequent than soil. I like being lazy, and work hard to keep it that way, so I designed and implemented an automatic watering system to do it for me. I'm now working on a second generation of my watering system, as it's a bit of a pain to adjust and balance the current one.
Cool that sounds awesome, one day I might make a watering system, sounds like a big job and already spend enough time out there sorting other things let alone feeding but I like the sound of being lazy and working hard to keep it that way
The only thing is now I'm keeping coco wet is gnat flys have came back, I've got sticky traps but is there some way of getting rid of them permanently
 

Old Salt

Member of the Year: 2019 - Member of the Month: Apr, Nov 2019
I have fungus gnats for the first time this grow. The yellow sticky traps will get many of the fliers, but leave some to breed. I use them to detect the adult fliers, as well as keep their population down while I break their life cycle. I also deployed nematodes in the form of Pot Poppers to snack on their larva. After two weeks I'm not seeing any new adults on the sticky traps.

full

Deploying Yellow Sticky Traps, and Nematodes
 

RoyC

Member
I have fungus gnats for the first time this grow. The yellow sticky traps will get many of the fliers, but leave some to breed. I use them to detect the adult fliers, as well as keep their population down while I break their life cycle. I also deployed nematodes in the form of Pot Poppers to snack on their larva. After two weeks I'm not seeing any new adults on the sticky traps.

full

Deploying Yellow Sticky Traps, and Nematodes
Cool I can't get nematodes here I don't think and most overseas companies don't seem to ship here but I'll keep trying, might find a drench or something.
So do I wait to see the top of the coco dry just abit before I feed next because 4 were had just a little dry on top and the rest still heavy as, do i top the 4 slightly dry top ones up and water next night or just water them all anyway
 

RoyC

Member
I think you are seeing a magnesium deficiency. What is the pH of your nutrient solution? Are you running drain-to-waste, or another method?
Hi again, things going good again thanks for all your help, was wondering what you thought about topping, F.I.M and natural, I normally top or fim I found if I top then in the early stages of veg I trim (as little as possible) the leaf that grows over the branches underneath and it seems to sort of fim, letting the lower branches think they are at the top and catch up to the two mains, I have a 1.2mx1.2 floor and am trailing 9, 12 or 16 pots, I try get an even canopy at about 60cm up from the pot, I cant go much higher with the set up I got, what would you recommend for him top or natural and number of pots
 
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Old Salt

Member of the Year: 2019 - Member of the Month: Apr, Nov 2019
Hi again, things going good again thanks for all your help, was wondering what you thought about topping, F.I.M and natural, I normally top or fim I found if I top then in the early stages of veg I trim as little as possible the leaf that grows over the branches underneath and it seems to sort of fim, letting the lower branches think they are at the top and catch up to the two mains, I have a 1.2mx1.2 floor and am trailing 9, 12 or 16 pots, I try get an even canopy at about 60cm up from the top, I cant go much higher with the set up I got, what would you recommend for him top or natural and number of pots

Topping or fimming are used to increase yield. I normally top to get two or four main branches from my photoperiods. I'm shutting down my tents to re-organize them. When complete I'll also grow autoflowers to fill my 'veg' tent. These will not be topped, until I get some experience with them in their natural state.

The topping is done between the third and fourth node for two main branches for mainlining, or the fourth and fifth mode to quadline the plants. I usually top as soon as I can, and then start training when the branches are about 50mm or 2" long.
 

RoyC

Member
Topping or fimming are used to increase yield. I normally top to get two or four main branches from my photoperiods. I'm shutting down my tents to re-organize them. When complete I'll also grow autoflowers to fill my 'veg' tent. These will not be topped, until I get some experience with them in their natural state.

The topping is done between the third and fourth node for two main branches for mainlining, or the fourth and fifth mode to quadline the plants. I usually top as soon as I can, and then start training when the branches are about 50mm or 2" long.
Was wondering if you knew if I went from 16 to 9 plants and was going to up size the pots from 6ltr to 13ltr in coco and in 1.2x1.2x2m tent, was having a look in the forum and seen 1 gallon per foot of plant, my height normally about 60 cm so that be about 7.5 liters, I've already got the pots, went with wider but same pot height so to not restrict plant height, what happens if you use to big in coco?
 

Buds Buddy

Grow Journal of the Month: May 2020
Hi Roy, Just wanted to say you are in good hands with Old Salt. He got me through my 1st Coco grow & has extensive grow knowledge. Don't worry about over watering. I was feeding 2 - 3 times per day. Very hard to over water Coco.
 

Old Salt

Member of the Year: 2019 - Member of the Month: Apr, Nov 2019
The size of the pot is not the only factor coming in to play. There's also the frequency of feeding, and your training. I have grown 120cm tall (5') bushy plants with a 0.5m2 (5 sq ft)canopy in an 11l (3.8 US gal) pot, fed three times per day.

That said, 13l pots is a good choice for 9 plants in your tent.
 
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