LiberalThinker
Well-Known Member
Love your good humour.
Defoliation
- Thread starter Dobeyflange
- Start date
Metal Halide
Well-Known Member
Right on mate. Same goes for all life on the planet.
May your buds big, your health be good and your life be happy.
Its just science. You want to cut off one of your plants source of energy have at it.
I'm trying to help you become a better gardener.
TRANSLOCATION - "Translocation is the movement of materials from leaves to other tissues throughout the plant. Plants produce carbohydrates (sugars) in their leaves by photosynthesis, but nonphotosynthetic parts of the plant also require carbohydrates and other organic and nonorganic materials."
Taking off fan leaves is just not a very good way to get a bountiful harvest.
I don't need science (even tho there's plenty to back it up) to understand
taking fan leaves off is counter productive.
Here look at these fan leaves - No way cutting that off is going to do anything but piss off the plant and stunt its growth.
Just in case anyone thinks that fan leaves are "blocking" light, here's a pick of trichome covered sugar leaves that have been in the shade their entire life.
I would suggest changing your growing practice if this is part of your "style" of growing.
Damn the science like :
Botany
Chemistry
Physics
Biology
Just use your common sense? Really?
That just silly.
I'm trying to help you become a better gardener.
TRANSLOCATION - "Translocation is the movement of materials from leaves to other tissues throughout the plant. Plants produce carbohydrates (sugars) in their leaves by photosynthesis, but nonphotosynthetic parts of the plant also require carbohydrates and other organic and nonorganic materials."
Taking off fan leaves is just not a very good way to get a bountiful harvest.
I don't need science (even tho there's plenty to back it up) to understand
taking fan leaves off is counter productive.
Here look at these fan leaves - No way cutting that off is going to do anything but piss off the plant and stunt its growth.
Just in case anyone thinks that fan leaves are "blocking" light, here's a pick of trichome covered sugar leaves that have been in the shade their entire life.
I would suggest changing your growing practice if this is part of your "style" of growing.
Damn the science like :
Botany
Chemistry
Physics
Biology
Just use your common sense? Really?
That just silly.
Akrynm
420 Member
In my experience it’s best to defoliate in early bloom like week 1-2. It’s okay that you did in week 6 it’ll help get that penetration to lower branches. I’d say don’t stress them anymore or could result in hermaphroditism.
MidnightMann
Active Member
If your examples are from outdoor growing which from pictures it seems so then yes there is no need to do canopy thinning because of sunlight. Sunlight can penetrate canopy all the way to the ground and then some. Sadly science has not been able to replicate the sun's ability with any indoor light. So as an INDOOR grower we need to selectively thin the canopy to allow as much light penetration as possible. Plants were not created to grow indoors under artificial light so you can't hold up all the studies and textbooks and claim complete knowledge over all forms of growing, as they are not applicable in all cases.
- Thread starter
- #46
Dobeyflange
Active Member
I’m starting to get a bit worried the buds aren’t fattening.
I don’t think that’s down to defoliation, I think it could be the light and grow space.
It’s a Viparspectar 600w for 4 plants.
I’ve used Canna pk 13/14 for the last two weeks (5+6) and thought I’d start flushing but the buds aren’t very big at all.
Any advice?
Should I keep using the PK or just start flushing and hope the fatten up.
I don’t think that’s down to defoliation, I think it could be the light and grow space.
It’s a Viparspectar 600w for 4 plants.
I’ve used Canna pk 13/14 for the last two weeks (5+6) and thought I’d start flushing but the buds aren’t very big at all.
Any advice?
Should I keep using the PK or just start flushing and hope the fatten up.
Attachments
Metal Halide
Well-Known Member
But what if i want to stunt its growth. The whole point of stress is to do such things and get the plant to do your bidding. I dont have vertical room and such i want to slow down the plant, or perhaps slow some stretch, get the nodes closer without pgrs. theres many reasons to remove fan leaves than just mere trics and bigger buds. I live near one of the biggest tempered rainforests in the world and ive grown massive gigantatasauras plants out there. They look nothing like that. All those leaves, mostly gone. Trampled, fallen over brown from the heat and cold. massive buds, The best smoke ever, especially the ones that got the most roughed up by the elements, The way weed should beIts just science. You want to cut off one of your plants source of energy have at it.
I'm trying to help you become a better gardener.
TRANSLOCATION - "Translocation is the movement of materials from leaves to other tissues throughout the plant. Plants produce carbohydrates (sugars) in their leaves by photosynthesis, but nonphotosynthetic parts of the plant also require carbohydrates and other organic and nonorganic materials."
Taking off fan leaves is just not a very good way to get a bountiful harvest.
I don't need science (even tho there's plenty to back it up) to understand
taking fan leaves off is counter productive.
Here look at these fan leaves - No way cutting that off is going to do anything but piss off the plant and stunt its growth.
Just in case anyone thinks that fan leaves are "blocking" light, here's a pick of trichome covered sugar leaves that have been in the shade their entire life.
I would suggest changing your growing practice if this is part of your "style" of growing.
Damn the science like :
Botany
Chemistry
Physics
Biology
Just use your common sense? Really?
That just silly.
Metal Halide
Well-Known Member
your gonna have to provide more info mate. what strain is it? How many weeks is it overall till it ripens. Cause tbh if thats a 10week+ strain then they do look small but could still take off. If its a 7-8 week strain, you could be in some strife. Heres mine at 6 and a half weeks, I just took some pics now. Defoliated 3 times, the last at 2 weeks into flower. The buds are too large for the plants to handle and are collapsing but its a 7-8 weeks strain.
There's a thing called "translocation" its how plants move nutrients from in the soil or from the leaves to other parts of the plant where that energy source is needed. The fan leaves are 1 source of the energy.
Think of it like fan leaves are solar panels and the panels are capturing the energy from the light. The panels can store a little bit of energy but not nearly as much as they can produce.
They are energy providers.
Think of the flowers as the energy sink where that energy is used to produce flowers.
The flowers are not an energy source they are where the energy from the fan leaves is going to be used.
At some point in the fan leaf life cycle - the leaf becomes the energy source. When the flowers are becoming mature the leaves will translocate stored energy to the flowers via translocation. Those leaves will yellow and eventually fall off as all the energy is given back to the flowers.
Fan leaves have other important duties. They produce specific chemicals/proteins to signal to the apical meristem (main stem) when its time to flower. That main stem produces hormones to signal flower growth and stop growing plant/leaves.
Think about why you turn your lights down to 12/12. The fan leaves are the messengers to the plant to tell her fall is coming. Lets reproduce.
This matters not if there is sun light or man made light. The plant does everything the same. Indoors she has much much less stress and why we can arguably grow the "best weed ever" indoors.
The science/botany and plant growth doesn't change because the lighting is man made. Plant growth has been going on for millions of years. Our artificial lighting doesn't change that. We are learning how to exploit plants with artificial lighting.
I posted a pic up there ^^^ of some flowers that have been in the shade for all their lifetime. They are happily producing trichomes at the same or even higher pace that the flowers that are in direct lighting.
Shaded flowers - these are some of the best tasting buds I grow.
Metal halide - if you wanna stop vertical growth, try snapping but not breaking the main shoot - main stem. You will get a nice fat lady.
IF those fan leaves were not important, why are they so big and why does the plant expend a lot of energy growing them.
There's more to it than you think
IF those fan leaves were not important, why are they so big and why does the plant expend a lot of energy growing them.
There's more to it than you think
LiberalThinker
Well-Known Member
The other thing as well is that if the pH of the media becomes not temporarily not conducive to nutrient uptake the plant can get it from the fan leaves with no hitch in its progress. All I experienced when I did it was delayed growth as the plant sought to replace what I'd removed. It's quite clear they play an important role because otherwise they would not yellow during flower as the plant draws all its reserves to finish the job. It's on par with flushing... imo of course.There's a thing called "translocation" its how plants move nutrients from in the soil or from the leaves to other parts of the plant where that energy source is needed. The fan leaves are 1 source of the energy.
Think of it like fan leaves are solar panels and the panels are capturing the energy from the light. The panels can store a little bit of energy but not nearly as much as they can produce.
They are energy providers.
Think of the flowers as the energy sink where that energy is used to produce flowers.
The flowers are not an energy source they are where the energy from the fan leaves is going to be used.
At some point in the fan leaf life cycle - the leaf becomes the energy source. When the flowers are becoming mature the leaves will translocate stored energy to the flowers via translocation. Those leaves will yellow and eventually fall off as all the energy is given back to the flowers.
Fan leaves have other important duties. They produce specific chemicals/proteins to signal to the apical meristem (main stem) when its time to flower. That main stem produces hormones to signal flower growth and stop growing plant/leaves.
Think about why you turn your lights down to 12/12. The fan leaves are the messengers to the plant to tell her fall is coming. Lets reproduce.
This matters not if there is sun light or man made light. The plant does everything the same. Indoors she has much much less stress and why we can arguably grow the "best weed ever" indoors.
The science/botany and plant growth doesn't change because the lighting is man made. Plant growth has been going on for millions of years. Our artificial lighting doesn't change that. We are learning how to exploit plants with artificial lighting.
I posted a pic up there ^^^ of some flowers that have been in the shade for all their lifetime. They are happily producing trichomes at the same or even higher pace that the flowers that are in direct lighting.
Shaded flowers - these are some of the best tasting buds I grow.
so far the defoliation program is working out great. everything developing better than the last grow. defoliation is at the center of this grow, it was planned from the start.
all i can say is it probably is a great tool if it's within a program planned from the start. once i upgrade the light it may not have the same benefit. will have to try a couple grows after to compare.
i can sure see it going overboard. already noticed it's super easy to over defol. the whole point of the defol is to make use of available light. if you don't have enough leaves to do that, then it obviously defeats the point.
all i can say is it probably is a great tool if it's within a program planned from the start. once i upgrade the light it may not have the same benefit. will have to try a couple grows after to compare.
i can sure see it going overboard. already noticed it's super easy to over defol. the whole point of the defol is to make use of available light. if you don't have enough leaves to do that, then it obviously defeats the point.
I did a full leaf strip at day 15 of flower on my last grow. The buds got bigger than any other grow that Ive done.
Everyones grow environment is different, but for me, it was successful.
Everyones grow environment is different, but for me, it was successful.
Metal Halide
Well-Known Member
Very true. Cheers mate. ah yep, i do that often with most of my stems.
Metal Halide
Well-Known Member
How quick did they rev-gmate? or if all? Mine go crazy with growth when done before transition
- Thread starter
- #56
Dobeyflange
Active Member
It’s a cheese strain which I think is an 8 week flower.your gonna have to provide more info mate. what strain is it? How many weeks is it overall till it ripens. Cause tbh if thats a 10week+ strain then they do look small but could still take off. If its a 7-8 week strain, you could be in some strife. Heres mine at 6 and a half weeks, I just took some pics now. Defoliated 3 times, the last at 2 weeks into flower. The buds are too large for the plants to handle and are collapsing but its a 7-8 weeks strain.
I got clones from a friend.
He reckons I’ll have to give them a bit longer.
I’m not sure whether to start flushing or not.
I’m worried they’ll stop fattening up.
I’ll be starting week 8 on Monday.
Thanks for your help by the way.
Metal Halide
Well-Known Member
tbh man. defoliating is only for the very experienced. If you don't already have a perfect environment and know exactly what and why there's a problem before it even becomes an issue just by looking, smelling or feeling the plants, then it shouldn't be done. So many other environmental factors could already be stressing your girls out which means that defoliating will only exasperate any current issues. If your buds aren't fat and your unsure of why then I would suggest growing using a well-known guide that suits your substrate and conditions and copy it to the tee before doing anything else. Defoliating is for those who have countless Succesful grows under their belts and are able to very quickly and effectively deal with issues that may arise from defoliating. Take this an example. Before the first major trim during veg I feed only ph water but give no runoff in my coco, this firstly dilutes the nutes currently in the substrate and secondly keeps lots of beneficial bacteria in my medium without the runnoff. This stops a nutrient lockout after the trim. Smaller plants equal fewer nutes. Just one small thing that must be taken into consideration before defoliating. let alone your ec going into and after each trim and knowing what nutes to give them during these times. good luck. may i reccomend not touching the plants next grow except some LST during veg and maybe a pinch of the stems here and there if any one stem takes off in transition. good luck
- Thread starter
- #58
Dobeyflange
Active Member
I’ll give them the full 8 weeks and see how they are.
Do you think it’ll be ok to start flushing now or will that inhibit the buds even more?
Metal Halide
Well-Known Member
It depends on your trics aye. You def need a microscope or a small eye one too see the trics and check consistency of cloudy vs clear vs dark. If they are all still very clear id keep nutes but go 1.6 ec, drop N completely if you can, some mollases, a finisher of some sort aswell if you want. Keep your pk up with a 13/14. Or if thats not feesable you could just go PH water from here on in and let the plant use up whats left in substrate and plant first then flush like normal a week or if the plant is showing signs of deficiency before the flush continue to hold off on that final flush especially if the trics haven't turned fully cloudy or even 1% brown but no more than 1%. Its a sort of sit and wait scenario since you have limited knowledge of the strain itself. But monitoring those trics are essential now to get the most of what your can from the plant unfortunatly. The hair colours turning are also an indication but they can lie. Stress to causes premature browning more so that trics, good luck
12 - 24 hrs after you can hardly tell if it was done. have done 4 defol in veg, and one in flower. the one before flip was the most extensive. this is the first defol i have done in flower, will know more in a day or so, but i'm not expecting them to react the same as in veg.
Similar threads
