Delps 8 Hydro RDWC Gorilla Glue Autoflower 2021

[Rexer]

Hey @Delps8

Nice job with your grow!

Some beautiful colas in there! If you want to, you can always do a progressive chop. Cut the tops and let the bottom mature.

 

[Delps8]

Hey @Delps8

Nice job with your grow!

Thank you. I'm pretty pleased with the results. It's been a long 109 days!

Some beautiful colas in there! If you want to, you can always do a progressive chop. Cut the tops and let the bottom mature.

Thank you! I'm pretty psyched about the whole thing. They've had an incredible odor for a while and the colors are amazing.

I was thinking I'd do a progressive chop but I sampled some of the leaves and saw amber in trichs on buds at the lowest point in a couple of the stems. On that basis, I decided to do that full chop.

Post chop, I looked at trichs from different locations and, to your point, I could have benefited from waiting. I can see amber trichs in the lower buds but I think that's because I was looking for them. That USB microscope is a great little piece of hardware but the key is to know what to sample and then knowing what to do with that info. If only this shit was as easy as writing software…. ;-)

 

[Rexer]

It all looks like some great smoke

I use my USB microscope against the calyx. I'll take a ton of photos and go based upon average from what I'm seeing.

It looks to me like you did a fantastic job

 

[Delps8]

It all looks like some great smoke

I'm hoping so!
Joe yielded a lot of larf but the larf does the job, even at this early stage.

I use my USB microscope against the calyx. I'll take a ton of photos and go based upon average from what I'm seeing.

It looks to me like you did a fantastic job

"I use my USB microscope against the calyx. I'll take a ton of photos and go based upon average from what I'm seeing."
Thanks for telling me that. This plant was easy to use a loupe but, per the pix, my focus was on trichs. A quick Google about calyxes and I see that there's more to take into account.

Re. great job
Thank you. Had a rough start at the cost of two sets of seedlings bud this has worked out pretty well. A few weeks and then I'll be thinking about the next grow!

 

[Delps8]

I want to thank Bluelab for giving me the opportunity to play "Guess which TDS probe has the right value?"
I use a Bluelab monitor in the res and a Bluelab pen when I'm mixing nutes. I calibrated both of them within the past 30 days (the monitor reminds you to cal every 30 days) and they were spot on. Fast forward till today and the monitor is reading 490 in the new res while the pen is 420. Neither has been subject to any physical abuse and the probe on the pen is dipped in RO water and shaken off after every reading. Which one is right? No idea. I'll have some calibration solution by this time tomorrow but it really sucks that two not cheap instruments were calibrated < 30 days ago and at least one of them is out to lunch.

Following the Wonder Chart and SoWC, I've taken the path of dropping PPM until pH stabilizes. But my res was 180 PPM, per the monitor. If the monitor's whacked and the pen is correct, the pool could be…150PPM? No way. That's piss water. And, looking at the picture, the situation that I ran into on 7/7/21 is worsening. It's gotten worse on Reynolds and now Hamilton has lots of leaves in the same situation - curling leaves, brown leaf tips, and yellowing along the edges.

Did a new res today and decided to increase the nute level. I have a hunch that dropping PPM's to get pH stable was moving PPM in the wrong direction. Whatever was causing a problem on 7/7/21 had gotten worse and is now impacting Hamilton. The yellowing + curling could be how these plants change as they go into flower but, when I look at a nute deficiency chart, it looks to me like a K deficiency. The stems are purple, a la a phosphorus deficiency but I think that's just GG's. All four plants have had purple stems; it's only these two that are drinking "pond water" that are yellowing and curling.

Both plants in the tent are showing similar issues. It might a K deficiency but I'm wondering if it's just a function of having TDS levels that are too low. Any ideas?

 

[Schnookie]

Are you spraying anything on them? The white spots indicate mites to me. Get a scope on the leaves, especially underneath, and check for bugs and eggs and bugsh$t.

 

[Delps8]

Are you spraying anything on them? The white spots indicate mites to me. Get a scope on the leaves, especially underneath, and check for bugs and eggs and bugsh$t.

I really appreciate your comment because it got me off my ass and got me looking at the underside of the leaves with a loupe.
Using the 60x lens on the loupe, I saw a translucent green insect on the underside of one of the leaves. I've looked at some sites that have pix of cannabis bugs and it looks like the plants have aphids. I pinched a few leaves and saw one larger aphid and two smaller ones.

 

[Delps8]

It looks like aphids as well as another insect. I can't "take the plants outside and wash them" because they're in a res. What's the best way to handle this? Some of the leaves are stiff and dry and they crumble when I bend them.
The plants are in late flower and of the fan leaves on the buds are infected.

Aphid. The black dots - any ideas?

One article I read said that aphids leave "honey" drops. This leaf had two of these brown drops.

Not sure what this is - upper left quadrant of the pix. Long and slender, looks almost like a stinger.

Center top - same insect as above.

 

[Delps8]

Looks like the second insect is thrips. When it rains, it pours.

 

[Rexer]

@013 might be able to help. I have zero experience in pests

 

[Delps8]

@013 might be able to help. I have zero experience in pests

Rexer: thanks for the referral. I've started a conversation with him.

What a pain in the ass. This is a complete indoor grow. Rhetorical question - how did I manage to get this infestation? Ugh.

 

[Delps8]

Now for something completely different…

I got a reply from Bluelab re. the monitor and the pen. The reply was pretty bogus - a restatement of my problem statement and that's about it.

"Thank you for contacting us here at Bluelab.

The pens/Guardian EC probe has a +/- 50 point of accuracy on the 500 scale and unfortunately, you are unable to calibrate the Guardian to match the pen reading.

Please advise if you require further assistance."

The fact that it's ± 50 PPM is OK at 1400 PPM but when I've got nutes in the 400 range, 50 PPM is a significant variance. It's significant to me but is it significant to the plants? Well, it doesn't make it easier to deal with really low concentrations of nutes but the most important thing is to know the change in PPM.

 

[Delps8]

Spinosad spray and neem oil due in tomorrow. Spinosad handles both?

 

[013]

Hey Delps8,

Oh man wow that bites. Never had aphids but I know when they get bigger they molt and leave old carcas stuck to top side of fan leaves, it leaves a whiteish debris on fan leaves - at that point they often cling to main stalk of plant. I see what you are talking about tho with the stinger business. Hard part is many critters change shape a couple of times from larval stages to adults. Can’t confirm what you’ve got but yep you got the clap of some sorts

I sprayed one plant hard when I first started and the plant was in early flower can’t recall 100% but think it was Neem oil and it kinda fried my pistils really bad. So I learned at that point after much reading that you don’t spray the pistils but only leaf undersides….

If it’s the same plant that is pictured above and nearly done might be better to coast on into harvest and then just do bud washing. I see the big Rez tub but if you have other younger plants in flower in the same tent or grow room they might get infested too.

critters find our gardens anyway they can but be especially careful with pets or working outdoors then returning to the garden. In your July 7th update 3rd pic I see some leaf discoloration that looks like thrip honeydew. Might help to bump your lights down hard to finish them up with no sprays, lower light hours from 12/12 to 10 on 14 off.

Here is a funky tip that might help too… don’t cut the plants but just pull them and do bud washing then let them hang upside down roots and all for a few days then proceed with your normal harvest routine. This way they know death is imminent but still have access to xylem stored in trunk and roots. The main consideration would be a whole plant hanging is a lot of biomass and could foster pm but use coat hangers or improvise to keep branches spread apart. Keep fan moving air nearby but would avoid hanging in a tent for drying on whole plant harvest like this.

another option might be staggered harvest take top colas and let lowers ripen for another week or two. Sure hate this for you and feel rather useless at this point but maybe something here will give you a boost in right direction.

shout out - thanks for confidence Rexer

 

[Delps8]

013 - many thanks for the info and insights.

You’re on to something re. larval stages. After looking at more pix of thrips, I’m thinking that it’s a thrip infestation and the translucent green critter is a younger thrip.

Neem oil - my impression is that it’s got some punch to it and I’m leaning away from using Neem oil. I ordered Neem oil and Spinospad last night for delivery today. Amazon canceled my order as “undeliverable” (the explanation sounds like a mechanical issue or damage to the shipment. They didn’t bother to email me or just send another one. Very strange. I reordered those items and they should be in tomorrow.

The blurb for Spinospad indicates that it will get rid of a wide variety of pests including thrips and aphids so I’m going to take them at their word. Dunno if it does ants but they showed up to the party this AM. Nice to know I’m so popular…

“coast on into harvest and then just do bud washing.” - excellent idea and helps reduce the WTF level. If they can last another week, that should put me in pretty good shape. These are the only remaining plants - I harvested the other two already.
I read about bud washing somewhere and it struck me as strange at first but it is a plant, isn’t it?
Good to know that there’s a viable end game option if my critter killing skills aren’t up to the task.

"thrip honeydew” - agreed. A small, amber colored spot. They eat my plants and then shit on the leaves…”How dare you!"

Interesting idea about the lights. These are autos on an 18/6 schedule and I’ve the light level to 600± PPFD. Are you saying trade off pushing out the harvest date because the reduced light will have an impact on the critters?

Re. hanging plant - that’ll work. I was planning on using the tent for drying but my plants have matured at different times. For the first two plants, I had to use a drying net hanging in the half bathroom off my office (first floor bedroom). That’s because I had plants still in the res. Since these are the last two plants, I don’t have to screw around with the net - I can chop the plants and just turn ‘em over and hang ‘em upside down. Excellent!

"Sure hate this for you and feel rather useless at this point but maybe something here will give you a boost in right direction."
Far from useless. You’ve been very helpful. I appreciate the sentiment, for one, and I sincerely appreciate the suggestions, as well. You’ve provided me with some options. That’s really helpful. I can read the blurbs about “cannabis insect infestations” and read (some of) the BS that lead to links to Amazon but the info that you’ve passed along will help me now and will help others who may have similar issues.

First step is to get rid of the ants and then see what Spinospad can do. If that doesn’t work, the fallback position from that is just to let the little bastards run wild, then do the chop + bud wash. Those aren't bad options, all things considered.

"shout out - thanks for confidence Rexer” - No doubt. Hear, hear!

 

[Rexer]

013 - many thanks for the info and insights.

You’re on to something re. larval stages. After looking at more pix of thrips, I’m thinking that it’s a thrip infestation and the translucent green critter is a younger thrip.

Neem oil - my impression is that it’s got some punch to it and I’m leaning away from using Neem oil. I ordered Neem oil and Spinospad last night for delivery today. Amazon canceled my order as “undeliverable” (the explanation sounds like a mechanical issue or damage to the shipment. They didn’t bother to email me or just send another one. Very strange. I reordered those items and they should be in tomorrow.

The blurb for Spinospad indicates that it will get rid of a wide variety of pests including thrips and aphids so I’m going to take them at their word. Dunno if it does ants but they showed up to the party this AM. Nice to know I’m so popular…

“coast on into harvest and then just do bud washing.” - excellent idea and helps reduce the WTF level. If they can last another week, that should put me in pretty good shape. These are the only remaining plants - I harvested the other two already.
I read about bud washing somewhere and it struck me as strange at first but it is a plant, isn’t it?
Good to know that there’s a viable end game option if my critter killing skills aren’t up to the task.

"thrip honeydew” - agreed. A small, amber colored spot. They eat my plants and then shit on the leaves…”How dare you!"

Interesting idea about the lights. These are autos on an 18/6 schedule and I’ve the light level to 600± PPFD. Are you saying trade off pushing out the harvest date because the reduced light will have an impact on the critters?

Re. hanging plant - that’ll work. I was planning on using the tent for drying but my plants have matured at different times. For the first two plants, I had to use a drying net hanging in the half bathroom off my office (first floor bedroom). That’s because I had plants still in the res. Since these are the last two plants, I don’t have to screw around with the net - I can chop the plants and just turn ‘em over and hang ‘em upside down. Excellent!

"Sure hate this for you and feel rather useless at this point but maybe something here will give you a boost in right direction."
Far from useless. You’ve been very helpful. I appreciate the sentiment, for one, and I sincerely appreciate the suggestions, as well. You’ve provided me with some options. That’s really helpful. I can read the blurbs about “cannabis insect infestations” and read (some of) the BS that lead to links to Amazon but the info that you’ve passed along will help me now and will help others who may have similar issues.

First step is to get rid of the ants and then see what Spinospad can do. If that doesn’t work, the fallback position from that is just to let the little bastards run wild, then do the chop + bud wash. Those aren't bad options, all things considered.

"shout out - thanks for confidence Rexer” - No doubt. Hear, hear!

Ants....the one only and only insect I can offer some input on....cinnamon. They hate it....I had a few show up in my last grow, I sprinkled cinnamon powder all around the garage (where my tent is) and never saw them again.
And my garage smells like cinnamon now, which I actually don't mind.

Edit- though in full disclosure, the jury is still out on how effective cinnamon is as a deterrent for ants.

And 013 is the hero here, that was an awesome chunk of knowledge just dropped!!!

 

[Delps8]

Ants....the one only and only insect I can offer some input on....cinnamon. They hate it....I had a few show up in my last grow, I sprinkled cinnamon all around the garage (where my tent is) and never saw them again.
And my garage smells like cinnamon now, which I actually don't mind.

Now that’s pretty cool. Had no idea about that! I grew up in a place that ants - we used chlordane!
Cinnamon’s a much better approach.

And 013 is the hero here, that was an awesome chunk of knowledge just dropped!!!

Amen. Great stuff.

 

[013]

Neem oil does the job even tho it’s just pressed Neem seed I hate the scent of it and the oil base doesn’t inspire confidence. You can mix Neem seed meal in top layer of soil as a pest deterrent but Neem meal is a fert in its own right think it’s 6-1-2 NPK, but doesn’t help in hydro. Not that it matters but I’m sick of pests and now trying to go with beneficial insects, pests have beat me too many times. Just read again the other day from InTheShed you are not supposed to exceed 6 applications of Spinosad in a season. I easily exceeded that and think my pests became immune to it especially since they kicked my butt real hard there for a while.

Think honeydew is saliva product but yes forgot to mention ants and other critters come to feast on the dew

Ah crap totally my bad, prolly victim of failed speed reading attempt there didn’t realize autos on 18/6. No the bump down in light hours is for photoperiods to help finish faster not sure how that plays on autos. Technically on photos it’s the amount of dark hours that build flowers so reducing light hours / giving longer nights helps photos to finish faster, not sure if same applies to autos tho.

What I was going for there on the harvest is don’t chop at all but I didn’t convey that properly. I do soil harvest by digging up the roots with soil still attached and bag the rootball in garbage bag and tape it to the trunk so dirt doesn’t fall down into my buds while hanging upside down. This way the plant can still draw goodies from stalk & roots and sorta of finish ripening while hanging upside down - but whatever you decide works for me! For that matter you could even bump to 24/0 what’s the worst that could happen - right? They can’t reveg or at least that’s my understanding.

I always bud wash everything anyway, I run 9 inch fans but no extraction and my blades are always nasty even after popping the shrouds off and cleaning once a month. After you see that first rinse bucket you will be convinced. If you’ve ever cleaned trim scissors then you know that trich glue does not wash off with water. Just hang to drip dry for at least 4 hours.

Nope, no hero here but glad to be useful!

 

[Delps8]

Neem oil does the job even tho it’s just pressed Neem seed I hate the scent of it and the oil base doesn’t inspire confidence. You can mix Neem seed meal in top layer of soil as a pest deterrent but Neem meal is a fert in its own right think it’s 6-1-2 NPK, but doesn’t help in hydro. Not that it matters but I’m sick of pests and now trying to go with beneficial insects, pests have beat me too many times. Just read again the other day from InTheShed you are not supposed to exceed 6 applications of Spinosad in a season. I easily exceeded that and think my pests became immune to it especially since they kicked my butt real hard there for a while.

I'd read about issues with insect issues with soil but would have thought that "clean" soil would drastically reduce the chance of infestation. It sounds like you're getting hit pretty often. That's a total bummer.
This really caught me by surprise. I should have acted on it a couple of weeks back but it was completely outside my ken. I change shoes going into the garage and I walk outside to run the RO and water pump hoses but that's, at most, once a week. When I ran a dehumidifier, I would empty the bucket once per day. The backyard is gravel. Little bastards…hiding in the rock, lying in wait.

Think honeydew is saliva product but yes forgot to mention ants and other critters come to feast on the dew

Got it.

Ah crap totally my bad, prolly victim of failed speed reading attempt there didn’t realize autos on 18/6. No the bump down in light hours is for photoperiods to help finish faster not sure how that plays on autos. Technically on photos it’s the amount of dark hours that build flowers so reducing light hours / giving longer nights helps photos to finish faster, not sure if same applies to autos tho.

This is my only auto grow (my first grow was 4 years ago now) and they're an interesting contrast to photos. I can switch 'em to 12/12 with no issues. Just have to bump the PPFD. Never heard it's the dark builds flowers, either in photos or autos. That's an interesting idea.

What I was going for there on the harvest is don’t chop at all but I didn’t convey that properly. I do soil harvest by digging up the roots with soil still attached and bag the rootball in garbage bag and tape it to the trunk so dirt doesn’t fall down into my buds while hanging upside down. This way the plant can still draw goodies from stalk & roots and sorta of finish ripening while hanging upside down - but whatever you decide works for me! For that matter you could even bump to 24/0 what’s the worst that could happen - right? They can’t reveg or at least that’s my understanding.

Yeh, they're pretty much on "auto"pilot. It's nice to be able to leave the tent wide open. Air flow is better and it's helped keep the temps down.
I'm going to stick my nose into another cannabis site that's got a lot of auto growers and see if I can rattle anyone's cage. I did spend some time on the other site when I started this grow and the general consensus seemed to be that plants benefit from a rest period and that it should be at least four hours.

I always bud wash everything anyway, I run 9 inch fans but no extraction and my blades are always nasty even after popping the shrouds off and cleaning once a month. After you see that first rinse bucket you will be convinced. If you’ve ever cleaned trim scissors then you know that trich glue does not wash off with water. Just hang to drip dry for at least 4 hours.

Trich "glue" - I've harvested other two plants. They weren't very big but with even that small amount of clipping I had to break out the rubbing alcohol to get things cleaned up.
Bud washing - swirl it around in a bucket, shake it off, and hang it up or is it more involved?

"Nope, no hero here but glad to be useful!"
Good info and good to have it documented here. Known problem with known parameters and multiple options. Future's so bright, I gotta wear shades!

 

[013]

Clean soil should help but yes my indoor garden was hammered by pests. I try to practice garden friendly hygiene habits but love outdoors and have dogs too - so who knows? Perhaps my pests became immune to Spinosad from repeated use but I sterilized tent, dumped old soil etc. Yes pests will find a way to the garden.

I suck at growing autos, I can kill or stunt them quickly, working to turn that around. Ok I’m not boldly stating that dark builds flowers but a photo will never flower without 12/12 and to make photos finish faster we can increase dark period beyond 12 hour nights to 13 or 14 hour nights so in a sense the statement about dark builds flowers is true. Does that make sense? Autos will flower on any light schedule but most do 18/6 to improve yields over 12/12.

Bud washing = 3 buckets. Some use baking soda & lemon juice in first bucket, the other 2 are rinse buckets. I don’t like the baking soda & lemon juice deal but that’s how pro chefs clean veggies for consumption. I do more of a bud soak and hold colas underwater for about 5 minutes then move to the next rinse bucket. Helps if your buckets are white so you can see water clarity, i stop and dump buckets if water gets nasty which it often does. I have a tall 20 gallon rectangular office waste bin that I use for whole plant bud washing, I use a garden tie wire to bind the biomass in narrow shape soak for 5 minutes, dump the water, refill the bin rinse and repeat.

Yes sir the fact alcohol is needed to clean your trim scissors is proof that trichs are not water soluble. I’m going to drop the link for bud washing just in case, Bud washing it’s a long thread but first page should give the details. It’s easy peazy but it’s evident you are savvy enough to figure anything out!!

Hate this mess for you but you will become a better grower from the experience!