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Do we need to pH adjust our nutrient solutions?

Elvin

Well-Known Member
Maybe you do, but my fast watering has been optimized! ;)
I have installed a "supercharged" outlet hose on my gallon can (2 feet of hose from an old dishwasher) that helps me dump a gallon in under 30 seconds. Otherwise, I just hook a hose to the kitchen sink and have a sprayer wand connected to that for the days I just use straight water. I know the purists will say I'm not optimizing by watering fast but (I better not finish;-)
 

Elvin

Well-Known Member
You have said that any well made soil does not need to water to be pH adjusted. Same goes for ProMix.
I'm using Ocean Forest with 30% (or so) perlite. It worked fine when I was using FF's nutes and it's working fine (buffering) with Kelp4Less's nutes. Best of all I can get the 1.5 cubic foot bag shipped to Ace Hardware for pickup for $20 + tax ($21.39 out the door to be exact).
So add a few dollars of perlite (I pay $30.90 for 4 cubic feet) and I have just over 14 gallons, or 2-7 gallon bags and a little left over for clones. Hopefully, it is optimized but I'll just settle for some normal pH buffering :thumb:
 

InTheShed

Member of the Year: 2018 - Member of the Month: Jan 2018, Nov 2018 - Grow Journal of the Month: Aug 2018 - Plant of the Month: Oct 2018

Mr. Magoo

Member of the Month: Sept 2018 - Plant of the Month: Mar 2019
I find that if I water fast I get runoff quicker than I’d like. But I’ve also found that almost every time I’m in there watering I end up having to pee. And then I water fast!!! :19:
 

Marzbadrock

Plant of the Month: Sept 2015 - Nug of the Month: Jan 2016, May 2018
OK guys! More than one way to skin a cat, do what works best for you. I'm not taking sides or insinuating I'm better than anyone on here but I've experimented a lot from hydro to soil, act teas to straight up salts, hps to led. I've got great results from damn near all my experiments. For myself, my highest quality and highest producing is in FFOF with dolomite feeding low amounts of a organic bottled nutrient and not pH my water but getting my soils ph n buffering on point....just me. Do we need to ph nutes n water, alot of the times yes but not always.

3 1000w hps, no ph, dumping water in fast as it pours out. 7.5 lbs. Lower producing strains. It works n works well!
 

Elvin

Well-Known Member
I find that if I water fast I get runoff quicker than I’d like. But I’ve also found that almost every time I’m in there watering I end up having to pee. And then I water fast!!! :19:
The way I water fast is by having a 7-gallon homemade fabric bag that has about a 4-5 inch lip above the soil. Water by circling around the edge (water onto the fabric and let it flow onto the soil) until you have at least 2 inches deep pool then dump the water. That pool of water keeps the force of the water from disturbing the soil and distributes the water evenly (but alas it likely is not optimized ;-).
 

InTheShed

Member of the Year: 2018 - Member of the Month: Jan 2018, Nov 2018 - Grow Journal of the Month: Aug 2018 - Plant of the Month: Oct 2018
If LOS growers don't need to pH their nutes — as they like to mention (because their medium is buffered) — neither does anyone else with a buffered medium. If you medium lacks buffering elements in sufficient quantities to get through a growing season, I'd say either amend it or pick a different substrate. Or keep pH'ing your nutes! Entirely up to you.
 
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Elmer Fud

Well-Known Member
If LOS growers don't need to pH their nutes — as they like to mention (because their medium is buffered) — neither does anyone else with a buffered medium. If you medium lacks buffering elements in sufficient quantities to get through a growing season, I'd say either amend it or pick a different substrate. Or keep pH'ing your nutes! Entirely up to you.
Agreed. With every word you said :green_heart: :Namaste:
 
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Mr. Magoo

Member of the Month: Sept 2018 - Plant of the Month: Mar 2019
So many ways to grow. So many options for lights, medium, cultivars, nutrients. So many obstacles to overcome like environment and pests. I don’t think I’ve seen 2 growers on here do everything exactly the same. Lol. I think we can all agree on that! We’re all looking for the right combination of so many variables that work best for us as individuals. With so many different ways to accomplish our shared goal of growing great weed, people will disagree at times. Nothing wrong with that! I think this thread was started to show that with the right combination of variables that adjusting the ph of nutrients isn’t necessary. But for some grows it is for sure. Or maybe some just enjoy knowing that they aren’t going to throw things out of balance when they add their nutrients. Lol. I’m lazy so I use a system that allows me to not have to do that. My Ph pen has dust on it! Lol.

Anyway.....Hope you all have a great weekend!
 

Elvin

Well-Known Member
So many ways to grow. So many options for lights, medium, cultivars, nutrients. So many obstacles to overcome like environment and pests. I don’t think I’ve seen 2 growers on here do everything exactly the same. Lol. I think we can all agree on that! We’re all looking for the right combination of so many variables that work best for us as individuals. With so many different ways to accomplish our shared goal of growing great weed, people will disagree at times. Nothing wrong with that! I think this thread was started to show that with the right combination of variables that adjusting the ph of nutrients isn’t necessary. But for some grows it is for sure. Or maybe some just enjoy knowing that they aren’t going to throw things out of balance when they add their nutrients. Lol. I’m lazy so I use a system that allows me to not have to do that. My Ph pen has dust on it! Lol.

Anyway.....Hope you all have a great weekend!
Mine isn't quite that dusty but once one knows what your inputs are why bother? It's certainly not like I am not trying to ram nutes into my pots and are always on the cusp of putting too much in ;) Known values do not change despite how many times you test it! Besides I'm growing in soil that buffers like it is supposed to. Did I mention I'm in the no-flush club as well ?(the horrors;-)
 
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AdaminCO

Well-Known Member
Vinegar works great also as a PH down! (Baking soda is a natural PH up also)

Rain water has EXTREME low alkalinity. Although this is what cannabis plants naturally drink, it Isn't optimal for them for vigor growth. Unless you have a great super soil. Dolomite lime in your medium really helps regulate your PH at the soil level. Therefore not needing to be so cautious about PH'in your water. :green_heart: :snowboating:
I use lemon juice to bring it down, baking soda for up, but rarely have to do either. Some seaweed extracts knock it way down there.
 

Elvin

Well-Known Member
Let's get this all back to the start and the correspondence that InTheShed shared:
"At one point he said this:
"It is the potential acidity or basicity of the fertilizer chemistry and the alkalinity content of your water that affects the pH of the growing medium. For the fertilizers, it is called ‘potential’ since it is determined by the chemistry and the quantity of fertilizer nutrients that are applied and the ‘potential’ they have to interact with the plant root system and influence the pH of the growing medium up or down."

All related to the medium. And the interesting use of the word "potential," but again ended it by talking about moving the pH of the growing medium.

Rather than bore you with the all back and forth, I will post this summary that I sent him in one of our last emails. He approved of this summary (italics mine):

1. Ideal pH range for mineral soil is 6.0-6.5. Soil-less growing media, such as PRO-MIX, have an ideal pH range of 5.5-6.0.

2. However, pH of nutrient water is irrelevant to the pH of any soil or growing media. It is the alkalinity of nutrient water and the potential acidity/basicity of the fertilizer(s) that influence the pH of the growing medium and root zone. For example, if the alkalinity of nutrient water is moderate or high, pH of growing medium will rise over time.
a. Plant roots are electrically charged and must maintain a neutral balance.
b. For ammonium nitrogen (NH4) fertilizers, plants release of hydrogen ions to take up NH4. Hydrogen released is essentially acid and this drives pH down.
c. For nitrate (NO3) form of nitrogen in fertilizers, plant exchange hydroxyl ions for NO3 uptake, which causes growing medium pH to rise.
d. Alkalinity (CACO3) is essentially dissolved limestone. The higher the alkalinity of water, the greater tendency to raise pH of growing medium over time.

3. It is more important to keep track of the pH of the growing medium than the pH of the nutrient solution we feed the plants.

And at the bottom of that summary I added one last direct question:
"If I’m growing in ProMix HP and I mix up the nutrient solution and it reads 7.4 pH, it is not necessary for me to adjust that number down using phosphoric acid or the like. I can pour it into the pot at 7.4 and my plants will be able to uptake those nutrients?"

His response was a direct "Yes.""
 

Elmer Fud

Well-Known Member
Check out Kelp4Less
I'll snap a few pics monday when back at my facility.. I have these guys entire line! From foiler sprays to enhancers. Top notch If you ask me. I wouldnt go anywhere else! Atm my flower rooms are using their 4-18-38 flower/bloom enhancer! :Namaste: :peace:

Edit; heres one of my smaller grow spaces that I just switched to l.e.d's and they are using kelp4less!
 

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Elvin

Well-Known Member
I'm using their Bud Hardener 0-45-28 right now . . . . and I'm not pHing (sorry; I couldn't help myself, I'm just incorrigible:5:)
Best thing I like about it is the "0" that it's time to get rid of the chlorophyll (no nitrogen) and increase everything else and this does it at a heck of a good honest price like their entire line.
 
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Marzbadrock

Plant of the Month: Sept 2015 - Nug of the Month: Jan 2016, May 2018
Nice experiment Weasel! I know different strokes for different folks but in my situation I have tried side by side with pH or no pH with nutes and water. My findings were the plants I did not pH actually thrived and surpassed the plants I did ph. My nutes/water mix were between 4 and 5! I think why it was beneficial was my soil was spot on, after watering my soil pH would drop to 5 but by end of the night it was 6 then the following day 6.5. Yes I was using a soil probe but it still fluctuated . The plants I ph, the soil stayed between 6 n 6.5.
May not be the case with all soil, nutes, water sources but for me it was night n day. Excited for your findings, your one of my favorite people on this website n hands down in the elite growers status! Kill it bud!
 

Weaselcracker

Nug of the Year: 2016 - Member of the Month: Sept 2015, Nov 2016 - Nug of the Month: Oct 2016 - Plant of the Month: May 2016
Awww gee thanks Marz.

Honestly I hesitate to call peat moss and perlite ‘soil’ and generally always see it referred to as soilless -a form of hydroponics- inert medium with soluble nutes, using the hydro ph range.

Anyway we will see. Believe me when I say I don’t PH my plants simply because I love doing it so much. PH has been the #1 grow devil for me over the years and the main reason I want to move away from soilless and into soil, so I can get its annoying pitchfork away from my ass.
 
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