Do we need to pH adjust our nutrient solutions?

[Diatomacious]

Sounds like bad shit and should be banned.

I agree. It's the real reason organic food is so much better for you than chemical. The soil microbes will process the ammonia and convert it into a safe form of nitrogen. I've been studying this for years.

They can do the same thing in your body, detoxing you of ammonia. Eat raw organic leafy greens, they contain the highest amounts of these bacteria.

 

[jokerlola]

...I would hazard to guess, that 80 to 90 percent of forum members here are "hobby growers", for their own personal use...my advice is K.I.S.S, and don't get too caught up in the science/hype, as it's a rabbit hole, with a lot of tunnels, that can leave some just chasing their tails...light, nutrients and environment are the basics...as an always soil grower, from Miracle Gro. to Organic,, I've never owned a Ph pen(but have some litmus paper on hand for a slurry test, if I think something is amiss) and have had many successful grows, and some less than anticipated...such is life, just like what happens naturally outdoors...JMO...cheerz... ...h00k......

I'm a hobby grower. I started growing in 2018. I grow in soil in fabric pots outdoors. I've used synthetic nutes, organic nutes and super and living soil. I've never ph'd my water and I use tap water straight from the hose. I've never noticed any deficiencies and except for occasionally battling pests, I've never had an unsuccessful grow.

 

[Peat Phreak]

I never made any false assumptions about you or your education, and what's not productive is sarcastic posts and referring to people as "boss."

Acidifying your soil to fix a drift in substrate pH is not the same as pH adjusting your nutes when you water.

UNC doesn't recommend pH adjusting nutes anywhere in what you posted, and the opening post in this thread explains why. They are giving instructions on how to fix pH issues in the substrate.

Feel free to add sulfuric acid to your plants every time you water, but before you recommend it to others check with the folks who make Sunshine Mix to see if they recommend it.

pH adjusting your nutes is not needed in a buffered medium, but fixing the pH of the medium may be necessary if it drifts out of acceptable range. As I have stated, sulfuric acid is just one of the ways to do it, and not the way I'd recommend.

So it appears that you now agree input pH can influence the media pH. I call that making progress.

And yes you did make false assumptions about my education. For the record, I have six years of advanced chemistry under my belt. The acid base reactions that are relevant to this topic were discussed in the 8th grade. You haven't said anything beyond my comprehension. Not even close. I don't address most of your comments directly because they are often pedantic and don't even support your argument.

Did you ignore the post where I did not adjust pH? The pH got too high at the end. Deficiencies occurred. The rest of my grows with the same water and same nutes with adjusted pH turned out great. So I continue to acidify my water.

Now you will say, oh well you SHOULD manage your pH with your nutes like the "pros" do and not worry about feed pH. And I'm telling that you shifting my nitrate to ammonium ratio is not something I'm willing to do. The use of ammonium for N is how boof gets made. Which makes total sense because the so called pros are growing mostly boof. You should read up on that before you recommend it to someone. The pH of my grows are easily managed with acid and minimal ammonium.

Now show me where anyone credible says you definitely should NOT pH the feed with peat, salts and EDTA on a regular basis and what is the dire consequence of doing it. Because as far as I can tell, nothing bad happens when the feed is pH'ed to 5.5 for the entire grow using either citric acid, sulfuric or a combo of the two.

And Promix says acidifying the water is totally normal. I guess you only believe them when they tell you what you want to hear.

Acid Choices for Reducing Water Alkalinity | PRO-MIX

Some water sources cause the pH of a growing medium to rise rapidly over time. This has nothing to do with the pH of the water, but rather with the alkalinity in the water. Alkalinity is a measure of the bicarbonates and carbonates in the water. Another way to understand water alkalinity is that it is a measure of the ‘’limestone’’ content in the water. The higher the alkalinity, the more ‘’limestone’’ that is being applied, causing the pH of the growing medium to climb. To offset this pH rise, acids are injected into the irrigation water to neutralize some of the alkalinity and reduce the ‘’limestone’’ content in the water.

They aren't talking about a quick fix here. So you are completely wrong again.

 

[CaptainLucky]

I never made any false assumptions about you or your education, and what's not productive is sarcastic posts and referring to people as "boss."

Sounds like you're taking this personally. Please don't.

Acidifying your soil to fix a drift in substrate pH is not the same as pH adjusting your nutes when you water.

UNC doesn't recommend pH adjusting nutes anywhere in what you posted, and the opening post in this thread explains why. They are giving instructions on how to fix pH issues in the substrate.

Feel free to add sulfuric acid to your plants every time you water, but before you recommend it to others check with the folks who make Sunshine Mix to see if they recommend it.

pH adjusting your nutes is not needed in a buffered medium, but fixing the pH of the medium may be necessary if it drifts out of acceptable range. As I have stated, sulfuric acid is just one of the ways to do it, and not the way I'd recommend.

The study he posted said soilless.

 

[bluter]

sometimes it won't matter if you don't ph. and it never does if you do. thems the choices.

 

[Peat Phreak]

After some further research, it turns out Dr Bruce Bugbee agrees with everything I said here.

We use media with peat to help buffer pH changes. And because our tap water is high bicarbonate, we use an acidifying fertilizer (higher fraction of ammonium ion). This fertilizer is pH 2.8 in our concentrate tank and it reduces the tap water pH from 7.8 to 6.8. This helps, but we further reduce pH with a separate acid injector. This is not always necessary, but it helps to control the media pH.

He uses nutes AND acid to control the media pH of peat. How about that?

And he definitely thinks pH matters. According to Dr. Bruce Bugbee:

Q: What range should the runoff pH be in the peat/vermiculite media?

A: We regularly monitor leachate pH. The optimum is between 5.6 and about 6.3.
This is the optimum regardless of the media type. We control pH in our recirculating hydroponic systems at 5.8 to 6.0.

 

[CaptainLucky]

sometimes it won't matter if you don't ph. and it never does if you do. thems the choices.

I can think of several successful grower’s on this site that DO NOT ph their nutes.

 

[Peat Phreak]

With that, I shall rest my case. There is nothing that can be said or linked that will refute my position.

 

[bluter]

I can think of several successful grower’s on this site that DO NOT ph their nutes.

i'm sure you can. there's never a problem until there is.

There is nothing that can be said or linked that will refute my position.

just walked through, which way were you bending ?

 

[CaptainLucky]

i'm sure you can. there's never a problem until there is.




just walked through, which way were you bending ?

I don’t ph my nutes and see no reason to start.

 

[CaptainLucky]

Although I do adjust my water temperature for highest oxygen molecules.

 

[bluter]

I don’t ph my nutes and see no reason to start.

well not yet. and it will depend on your media

Although I do adjust my water temperature for highest oxygen molecules.

lololololol

cooler water will carry more but you can root shock a plant in a closed container if not careful.

 

[CaptainLucky]

well not yet. and it will depend on your media





lololololol

cooler water will carry more but you can root shock a plant in a closed container if not careful.

You are correct Sir, hence the reason for careful adjustments.

 

[CaptainLucky]

Media is 50-50 Ocean Forest +Happy Frog.

 

[Diatomacious]

Some water sources cause the pH of a growing medium to rise rapidly over time.

Some batches of ProMix will sweeten more than others over time as well. The lime they add to the peat will continue to sweeten the peat sometimes beyond the pH that is desired. This is because peat is a natural product and not all batches have the same acidity. This reaction can take months to occur so it is always a good idea to check the pH of the soil itself.

Now show me where anyone credible says you definitely should NOT pH the feed with peat

It will not hurt to pH the nutrient unless you are adding a contaminant during the process. It's simply a wasted step as it will have a very small effect on the overall soil pH.

 

[SCD]

This feels similar to good water chemistry in swimming pools.
A few pounds or kilos of TA buffering baking soda makes for far less pH bounce.
Doesn’t mean it won’t move around, just less frequent wild swings.

Is that a fair comparison for my mind in relation to the lime that is added to many media?

 

[bluter]

Media is 50-50 Ocean Forest +Happy Frog.

that's a happy media. i'd mostly run without in that as well. it's been amended. i'd probably ph in flower. you may see things more stable.


what gets lost in the convo is you ph as much if not more, for the nutes than the media. it is a combination choice that has to be made. one may not require it, but the other may depend on it. add in time, and the issue becomes more acute.

 

[CaptainLucky]

Some batches of ProMix will sweeten more than others over time as well. The lime they add to the peat will continue to sweeten the peat sometimes beyond the pH that is desired. This is because peat is a natural product and not all batches have the same acidity. This reaction can take months to occur so it is always a good idea to check the pH of the soil itself.

It will not hurt to pH the nutrient unless you are adding a contaminant during the process. It's simply a wasted step as it will have a very small effect on the overall soil pH.

But if your soil was out of ph wouldn’t it show with your plants not being able to use the nutes?

 

[bluter]

But if your soil was out of ph wouldn’t it show with your plants not being able to use the nutes?

it does over time. typically, things roll fine in veg, and then disaster bites you in the ass in flower

 

[CaptainLucky]

it does over time. typically, things roll fine in veg, and then disaster bites you in the ass in flower

I don’t want to jinx myself but my girl has been in flowering for several weeks now and a couple 2-3 till chop.